I want to live in I.E. world

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by soberups, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    The I.E. (Industrial Engineering) folks who call the shots and make the decisions at UPS come from their own special world that is...a bit different from the one that the rest of us live in. I want to live there too. Here is why.

    In IE world...it never rains and you never have to take time to fit a package into a DR bag or find a place where it will stay dry.

    In IE world it is a constant 72 degrees. It never snows and there is never any ice to scape off of your windows or to slip and fall on. Your mirrors never freeze. You never need tire chains.

    In IE world it never gets dark so you dont need a flashlight. you never have to take extra time trying to see the number on a house.

    In IE world there are never any delays due to road construction, accidents or traffic jams. All lights stay green for you 24/7.

    In IE world when you pull up next to a house and honk your horn, the 85 yr old bedridden customer comes running out to meet you for their signature required medication.

    In IE world, all loads are perfect. You do one bulk stop, then start on shelf one and work your way to your last stop on shelf 8. There are no cuts or splits and you never have to break trace for a business or a misload.

    In IE world, PAS and EDD are stop-for-stop perfect and you will complete your entire route without ever making a left turn.

    In IE world there is never any late air, so you never have to break trace to meet an air shuttle driver.

    In IE world the only packages you deliver are envelopes or nice, square boxes that fit on the shelf or stack neatly on the floor. They are never broken and they never leak. They are balanced to fit perfectly on a hand cart. There are no buckets, or tires, or car axles that weigh 100 lbs and roll around on the floor.

    In IE world, it takes the same amount of time to deliver a route out of a new P-700 as it does to deliver it out of a 25 yr old P-800 that cant pull a hill in 3rd gear and that has the turning radius of an aircraft carrier with no power steering.

    In IE world when you arrive to do a pickup, the customer is always ready for you. They have printed the end of day report, the NDA volume is kept seperate, and all the international volume is ready to go with invoices and paperwork completed.

    In IE world if you follow every method to a "T", work safely, and take your lunch and breaks...you will never be overallowed.

    Its a beautiful place, this IE world. I hope I'm lucky enough to live there some day.
  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Its all a state of mind - red pill or blue pill?
  3. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member


    I'm glad you are having fun with this. You are certainly intelligent and clever. I assume that much of what you write is "tongue in cheek" because its certainly not accurate.

    Of course there is a piece of truth in everything you write. That's called comedy or satire.

    I spent many of my 34 years in I.E. Its not a perfect organization. Its filled with flaws and had misguided attempts for attaining "perceived" accuracy that means nothing in the real world.

    While these blemishes are fun to poke at, they are there because the I.E. has continued to work to look for new ways to improve the business.

    UPS I.E. is recognized as a world class organization. They are known as the best of the best.

    Now, let everyone have fun with this satire.

  4. Just Numbers

    Just Numbers Retired

    Some will agree...some will not. The real question is does it take longer to walk 50 ft at an average pace in Oregon than it does in Virginia or Ohio?
  5. softshoe

    softshoe Member

    Who recognizes I.E. as a world class organization? Who thinks that I.E. is the best of the best?

    Pretzelman you have been brain washed for 34 years.
  6. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    I.E. does.

    "Gosh we`re world class and smrt!"

    "That`s spelled smart. At least that`s what the computer says"
  7. Mike23

    Mike23 Guest

    Don't forget, they're all Devry graduates...Because everyone knows that's a REAL university :laugh:
  8. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Actually, most of it is accurate.

    Is there a time allowance for scraping ice off of windshields, driving on snow or putting on tire chains? No.

    Is extra time allowed for making 8 pt turnarounds without power steering in cul-de-sacs 40 times a day when the route got studied in a P-7 that could make a U-turn? No.

    Is extra time allowed on a hilly route to compensate for the fact that a P-8 cant pull a hill faster than 15 MPH...when the route was studied in a P-7 that can do the same hill at 40MPH? No.

    Is there any time allowed for putting the package in a DR bag to keep it dry? No.

    Is extra time allowed for sorting and package selection when some dipstick DM decides to break up a route 10 min before start time, causing preload to fling 30 random stops in a pile on the floor of your truck? No.

    The time allowances are based upon a fantasy world of perfect conditions. They are accurate if, and only if, those conditions actually exist. In the real world...they dont.
  9. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    Clearly, anyone who thinks this has never spent a day driving a brown truck for UPS and then dealing with the fallout from failing to live up the IE's standards.
  10. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Is there "extra" time allowance for someone 5 ft tall as compared to someone 6'4? Im sure it's calculated for shorter drivers and taller drivers than "normal" have to go faster. No doubt in my mind Pretzel's heart is in the right place, but there is no intangible allowance "on the front line". IE calculations may not be perfect, but it is used as the "bible" when it comes to making the numbers work
  11. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Best of the best? Depends on whats being compared.

    Poo with peanuts or poo with corn? Hmm..
  12. NHDRVR

    NHDRVR New Member

    Sweet post...

    Essentially the IE world is a video game. Perfect conditions with pre-set parameters and an easy reset button by your side.
  13. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    With one important difference...

    In the IE video game, if you crash your car or your man gets killed or you screw up a time study by two hours.....no big deal, you just get a new man and keep on playing. Its all just a bunch of numbers and blips on a screen, and whoever is playing the game doesnt have any accountbility for the outcome.

    In the real world...it doesnt work that way.
  14. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

  15. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

    A little off thread, but not really............How much time is actually allowed for Cods.
    I got a complaint from a bar, that in 10 yrs on route has never had a package. It was an especially nice place, (satire) that I didnt even know was actually still open. When I went in, very scary, they wanted of course to know who it was from, I told them, and I told them how much it was. Then they wanted to know what it was, and the bottom of the label said football tags, I showed them. Then they himmed and hawwed, and got on their cell phone. After that call was not answered I wrote out a note, and said see ya Tuesday. The guy says, No wait,Ill try this number. I said I cant wait and left. I thought I heard a few choice words describing my anatomy and gender, but I just left.
    I get a msg to call and my sup asks why I was rude.
    I got a complaint saying I disrespected them and was very unproffesional. They told him I was there 90 secs max.
    Well there was no check, and last I heard, I get paid to deliver not wait. He said I should have waited. :whiteflag:So I asked how long do you want me to wait. Had I waited til they got hold of whomever, did they have a check? And should I sit at the bar and order up a soda while I wait for them to arrive?
    I just said, you assume I was rude, Im doing what you pay me to do, and he said that even the customers said I was rude. Well the only customer I saw was some drunk chick half passed out on the bar, its 2 in the afternoon, I have 6 hrs of work left, and 20 businesses to get to, before 330. So if I was rude to some customer who didnt have a clue, Im sorry I hurt his feelings, but I am doing the job the way I was taught. So you need to tell them how UPS works. And that you taught me to be rude. Except now you say I should have waited. So mr boss I have 15 more cods, how long should I wait at each business for those?
    That is the part that gets to me, I knew from experience that these phone calls were only going to delay me, and at the end, they would not have the money. And I would have lost 10 minutes I didnt have time to lose.
    And now Im on vaca, so I dont give a crap. But when I go back, I think Ill ask my center manager, just how long I should wait, and how to code that on my time card.
    The thing is Im not rude, and even though they were strangers to me, I didnt treat them that way, I treat everyone the same. Call if you need to get it today, we will work something out, I gotta go. Everyone else laughed when they heard that Im never ever to set foot in that bar again. I said Oh well, in my prime I was thrown out of nicer ones. :greedy:
  16. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

  17. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Guess I'll stick with uTube.
  18. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I have always been told that we get 3 minutes per COD for a time allowance.

    The first clue that this was going to be an issue is when they reached for the phone. At that point I would have left the COD information and offered to come back later that afternoon for the check. Obviously I don't know your route and don't know if that would have been an option but you were right in that you were basically wasting your time standing there waiting for them to make a decision.
  19. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member


    How about the Institute for Industrial Engineering
    How about the Institute for Operations Research and Management Science
    How about the countless companies that have benchmarked UPS' engineering group to see how to improve theirs.
    How about Thomas Friedman in his Chapter on UPS in the book "The world is Flat"

    In addition, Under Industrial Engineering is Plant Engineering and Automotive Engineering. P.E. built Worldport which has been deemed a marvel.

    Am I brainwashed or are all these sources? Or maybe you are biased.

  20. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    There are no allowances made for everything you mention. That does not mean that your last statement is true.

    Time studies are worked up initially based on "expected conditions". Not perfect conditions. The "expected conditions do not include the ones you mention, but.... This is an important but...

    After the base times are determined, an additional allowance is added. I don't know what its called today, but when I was taught, it was called PDF.

    Nearly 30 years ago I went to school at UPS to learn how to do original time studies. This is different than the ones I.E.'s do when they study you. A select few people were sent to school and we got a coveted "blue card" that enabled us to work up and original analysis.

    The last step of working up a study was to add in PDF. It used to be 15%. It was meant to account for many of the things not accounted for. PDF stands for Personal, Delay, and Fatigue.

    So, its not true that perfect conditions are expected. Its not true that no delays are accounted for.

    Also, as I have said before, work measurement is NOT meant to measure an individual driver for an individual day. PDF may be too little for you, and too much for a different driver.