If it passes. I have a question.

[rod]

The title of this thread is " If it passes I have a question". I would say if it passes as is there will be a lot of questions about 6 months after its ratified from people wanting to know how they were conned into voting for it.

 

[728ups]

So a revolving door of drivers who will stay for 6 months and leave??? Following in the footsteps of pt hub workers and sups....

I think the company and union both want 22.4's to be Churn and Burn.
The company will never have to pay top rate for 22.4,no insurance,and no vacations
The Union gets a steady flow of Initiation Fees

 

[PT Car Washer]

I think the company and union both want 22.4's to be Churn and Burn.
The company will never have to pay top rate for 22.4,no insurance,and no vacations
The Union gets a steady flow of Initiation Fees

I thought that was the whole idea behind the 4 year progression. The company and Union needed to add another layer of difficulty to the package delivery job. At the same time they sweetened the pot for Feeder drivers. Imagine making well over a $100k/yr and only 2 or 3 stops not counting lunch and breaks.

 

[Coldworld]

I think the company and union both want 22.4's to be Churn and Burn.
The company will never have to pay top rate for 22.4,no insurance,and no vacations
The Union gets a steady flow of Initiation Fees

True

 

[Coldworld]

I thought that was the whole idea behind the 4 year progression. The company and Union needed to add another layer of difficulty to the package delivery job. At the same time they sweetened the pot for Feeder drivers. Imagine making well over a $100k/yr and only 2 or 3 stops not counting lunch and breaks.

Feeder is a different beast... really a totally different type of operation than package car drivers and the hub ops

 

[Coldworld]

The title of this thread is " If it passes I have a question". I would say if it passes as is there will be a lot of questions about 6 months after its ratified from people wanting to know how they were conned into voting for it.

A sucker born every minute type of situation???

 

[HEFFERNAN]

UPS will have no problem filling these 22.4 jobs in metro areas, where Sunday delivery will be in play quicker.

When you look at the 22.4 job from our standpoint, it looks bad.
From an off the street hire, it will be the best job available anywhere.
Union protection, Full healthcare within months, Pension, even the 22.4 top rate is better than any other delivery company.
Plus, you didn't have to toil in Part-Time Purgatory for years and you get in line for a coveted RPCD job.
The overtime on Saturday and Sunday will make up for any layoff during the week.

UPS doesn't care if the current PTers won't sign up for it.


I agree with everyone, the contract language is terrible in the Master.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

UPS doesn't care if the current PTers won't sign up for it.

I'm not sure, what all the confusion is ?

If Union members don't want to be a 22.4.... don't bid the job.

UPS will have no problem filling these 22.4 jobs

Yep.


The "fast food" place, paid more on the hour.

But.... UPS looks a little sweeter now.

 

[Bubblehead]

UPS will have no problem filling these 22.4 jobs in metro areas

Yep.


The "fast food" place, paid more on the hour.

But.... UPS looks a little sweeter now.

But will they be able to keep them???

.....and what will their attitude be like after a couple of years of abuse.

The whole notion is horrific and the fact that the IBT is pushing for it an abomination.




~Bbbl~™

 

[HEFFERNAN]

But will they be able to keep them???

.....and what will their attitude be like after a couple of years of abuse.

The whole notion is horrific and the fact that the IBT is pushing for it an abomination.




~Bbbl~™

You are still looking at it with the attitude of a current employee of UPS.

For someone to walk through the door and get the total driver package WITHOUT the jerkaround summer and peak casuals got is huge.
With a direct line to the RPCD jobs, they will take the crap that comes with the job smiling.

 

[542thruNthru]

I'm not sure, what all the confusion is ?

If Union members don't want to be a 22.4.... don't bid the job.





Yep.


The "fast food" place, paid more on the hour.

But.... UPS looks a little sweeter now.

The problem is they want to be RPCDs. Most areas they will be forced to be a 22.4 to become a RPCD.

So no they don't have a choice. It's either go 22.4 or stay PT forever.

 

[DOK]

Your guess is as good as anyone’s.

The millennials don’t seem to like RPCD working conditions so I can’t see them being happy about being 22.4. Then again there are people out there who will do the 22.4 from all age groups, they’re out there. Just look at FedEx ground, they get worse pay and benefits and they seem to be making it work.

FedEx drivers get paid less because they have less work than a typical UPS driver and are not under as much stress. I know a fedex driver who only gets 100 stops a day and he’s Always off work by 5 PM. Ups forces me to work 10-12 hours every day. If I finish my route early, I have to go back out and help a driver out that was dispatched with 13 hours of work.

It’s been that way for decades. When we were the young guys, in the 80’s, you couldn’t refuse that being asked to help out someone else or you’d be fired, next man up was ready to take your spot. Today not so much.

Last bid sheet to go up for insiders to go driving was signed by....Get this....no one.

 

[specter208]

It’s been that way for decades. When we were the young guys, in the 80’s, you couldn’t refuse that being asked to help out someone else or you’d be fired, next man up was ready to take your spot. Today not so much.

Last bid sheet to go up for insiders to go driving was signed by....Get this....no one.

Depends on the area. Over here in still seeing 1-2 new drivers once a month. And they're are from local sort for some reason.

 

[Coldworld]

I'm not sure, what all the confusion is ?

If Union members don't want to be a 22.4.... don't bid the job.





Yep.


The "fast food" place, paid more on the hour.

But.... UPS looks a little sweeter now.

Until they are out at 730 with 50 more stops left with no help.... we have full time drivers now quitting .... you don’t think it’s going to be more with off the street hires who do t k ow what they are getting themselves into???? This 22.4 might not have the turnover that a pt job has but I believe it’s going to be high....

 

[Coldworld]

It’s been that way for decades. When we were the young guys, in the 80’s, you couldn’t refuse that being asked to help out someone else or you’d be fired, next man up was ready to take your spot. Today not so much.

Last bid sheet to go up for insiders to go driving was signed by....Get this....no one.

I know of 3 drivers personally who quit after they only were on packages for a couple months after they got seniority.... and that’s just me hearing this in pieces from my old pkg center....the turnover on these jobs will be high.... just wait and see... there’s a reason ups made the mechanics pay higher and shorter progression... because they can’t get guys in the door !!!

 

[East coast navy]

UPS will have no problem filling these 22.4 jobs in metro areas, where Sunday delivery will be in play quicker.

When you look at the 22.4 job from our standpoint, it looks bad.
From an off the street hire, it will be the best job available anywhere.
Union protection, Full healthcare within months, Pension, even the 22.4 top rate is better than any other delivery company.
Plus, you didn't have to toil in Part-Time Purgatory for years and you get in line for a coveted RPCD job.
The overtime on Saturday and Sunday will make up for any layoff during the week.

UPS doesn't care if the current PTers won't sign up for it.


I agree with everyone, the contract language is terrible in the Master.

So was package car driver! Then they made it a sheet hole environment! Hell, Package car drivers have better language then 22.4. What’s going to happen down the road when 22.4 drivers start complaining about their work environment... Make another give back classification!

IBT should be ashamed of them selves for allow the company to get it this bad!

The company was harassing the packe car drivers for a reason! To get what they want... The package car drivers and the union took the bait! Hook, line and sinker!

 

[HEFFERNAN]

So was package car driver! Then they made it a sheet hole environment! Hell, Package car drivers have better language then 22.4. What’s going to happen down the road when 22.4 drivers start complaining about their work environment... Make another give back classification!

IBT should be ashamed of them selves for allow the company to get it this bad!

The company was harassing the packe car drivers for a reason! To get what they want... The package car drivers and the union took the bait! Hook, line and sinker!

There's nothing in your post I don't agree with.
My only point was the bag of coal we see is a bag of gold to an outsider.

There's a long line of former casual drivers who would have taken a paycut to stay in the company, but had to be shown the door.

 

[sandwich]

BA told me. We have PT cover drivers here and the 22.4s will be replacing them. I believe it will also be in our supplemental language as well.

If they are getting rid of TCD then I'd say that's a good thing. I was TCD in so cal for 8 years. I worked everyday as a driver for those 8 years. Except when the economy tanked. I got sent back to the hub for 3 months then right back to driving everyday. They also forced all Tcd's to do Saturday air. That changed on the last contract. TCD is the worst position. 22.4 is a much better option. No TCD and no 22.4 is the best option.

 

[donthatetheptpds]

Your guess is as good as anyone’s.

The millennials don’t seem to like RPCD working conditions so I can’t see them being happy about being 22.4. Then again there are people out there who will do the 22.4 from all age groups, they’re out there. Just look at FedEx ground, they get worse pay and benefits and they seem to be making it work.

ground runs on a whole different model. Independent Service providers.. aka if you have a good contractor; you’re set. I was making 400 working 25 hrs a week delivering: PTO just no benefits. But at 22 i didnt care