If you don't have 30 friend/T years by 2023. READ THIS

[1whofan]

Quite the opposite.

Just ask any management at UPS about the new “transformation” they are doing. Basically offering severance packages to older employees, higher pay bands, and non essential personnel.

The whole reason for the gap between 25 and 30 is simple.

If you are absolutely sick of UPS and hate working here, you’ll take the 25 and out, $2000 or $2500.

If you made it to 30 and out and see the $3900, you might stay a couple more years with $100 for every year. At that point you’re probably in your mid to late 50’s at the earliest. UPS doesn’t want old guys, they need fresh horses to pull the carriage, and will offer more to put you out to pasture.[/

Quite the opposite.

Just ask any management at UPS about the new “transformation” they are doing. Basically offering severance packages to older employees, higher pay bands, and non essential personnel.

The whole reason for the gap between 25 and 30 is simple.

If you are absolutely sick of UPS and hate working here, you’ll take the 25 and out, $2000 or $2500.

If you made it to 30 and out and see the $3900, you might stay a couple more years with $100 for every year. At that point you’re probably in your mid to late 50’s at the earliest. UPS doesn’t want old guys, they need fresh horses to pull the carriage, and will offer more to put you out to pasture.

I get that from the company perspective, but the union knows about the workloads and the bs we deal with daily. The gap is acceptable to the company, but we as employees should vote a resounding HELL NO.

 

[upschuck]

But would gain by retiring a older driver for a younger one in progression. I’d be curious to see the difference in pay during those 5 years vs the pension contributions, and measured increase in production from a younger driver.

How would that help the pension? That just helps ups' bottom line.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Would someone with a modicum of understanding jump in here on these pensions.
It's all about actuarial tables and length of time between when one retires and their projected death.

 

[Benben]

I know the other side of the coin.
If they offered, say $3000 after 25, a lot more people would retire at 50 or under, giving 25+ years to take money out, and pensions would be in worse shape than they already are.

Easy there, You have not factored in Health Care cost. We have a number of 35+ year full timers who can't or won't retire due to losing insurance.

But you can mitigate the potential problem you described! Put a hard age cap on 20 and 25 year retirement benny's. 20 and 25 year retirement pension paid on after age __. Make it 63 or 65. Don't go blowing up on my numbers I am just spitballing here. By doing that the younger ones, who started earlier and planned better can get out and go do something else. THEN when they turn (say 63) they know the pension that they earned begins. The pension remains solvent, you get younger, newer drivers in and the older drivers get to begin living!

 

[Benben]

kinda like Social Security!

 

[Jackburton]

How would that help the pension? That just helps ups' bottom line.

They have numbers we don’t, like the amount of retirees that took the 25 and out vs the 30 and out, what age they were, ect. Knowing these numbers and comparing to the increased workload, I’m sure someone’s ran the numbers on offering a beneifit that few will reach, but the Union can claim victory for it.

 

[Benben]

I’m sure someone’s ran the numbers on offering a beneifit that few will reach, but the Union can claim victory for it.

That's why so many of us are questioning if the union is actually acting on our behalf!

 

[Jackburton]

Would someone with a modicum of understanding jump in here on these pensions.
It's all about actuarial tables and length of time between when one retires and their projected death.

The problem with actuaries numbers is the workload and environment change, average age of new drivers is lower than ever due to the large amount of retirees leaving and the short/no wait time to become a driver. Offering a 25 and out now to these guys with increases in monthly payouts is suicide. Offer them the 30+ to keep the carrot hanging and the horses moving. When and if they get tired of being rode hard and put up wet, they take an appetizer vs staying 5 more years for the main course.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

The problem with actuaries numbers is the workload and environment change, average age of new drivers is lower than ever due to the large amount of retirees leaving and the short/no wait time to become a driver. Offering a 25 and out now to these guys with increases in monthly payouts is suicide. Offer them the 30+ to keep the carrot hanging and the horses moving. When and if they get tired of being rode hard and put up wet, they take an appetizer vs staying 5 more years for the main course.

I understand your point of view and certainly appreciate it.

However, it is just numbers on an actuarial table.

I worked 3 more years once I became eligible (55 with 37 years in) and I take home a little over $1000 extra per month.

That spinning chair really got tough that last 3 years though.

 

[1whofan]

From the companies perspective it makes sense, but from the employees view it's unacceptable and maybe by voting NO, the union will address this issue.

 

[Jackburton]

I understand your point of view and certainly appreciate it.

However, it is just numbers on an actuarial table.

I worked 3 more years once I became eligible (55 with 37 years in) and I take home a little over $1000 extra per month.

That spinning chair really got tough that last 3 years though.

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Yeah, I was just pointing out how actuaries can get companies into trouble. Much like long term healthcare actuaries screwed up about 10 years ago. A lot of elderly people are seeing premium increases that are out of their fixed income budget because of failed actuarial tables. Now they have to decide if they can afford the premiums or become a burden on the taxpayer if they are ever admitted into a home.

 

[oldngray]

I understand your point of view and certainly appreciate it.

However, it is just numbers on an actuarial table.

I worked 3 more years once I became eligible (55 with 37 years in) and I take home a little over $1000 extra per month.

That spinning chair really got tough that last 3 years though.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

View attachment 204602

Sitting on one right now ... anal fissures hurt like the devil.

 

[Foamer Pyle]

I am hanging on by a thread right now. I have 29 years in, and my back is shot. The company has turned this job into a freight delivery job without any safety equipment. Every day trampolines, sofas, refrigerators, desks, entertainment centers, and generators. The least they could have done in this contract was create one, two man position in every center, to deliver as much of the big heavy stuff as possible. They need to outfit a Big Bettha with a lift gate, and load it up. Only way i vote yes is if the pension increase happens this year, and they properly address 9.5, and the heavy stuff. Maybe they are wanting us to strike so they can try and get rid of all us us.

 

[upschuck]

Easy there, You have not factored in Health Care cost. We have a number of 35+ year full timers who can't or won't retire due to losing insurance.

But you can mitigate the potential problem you described! Put a hard age cap on 20 and 25 year retirement benny's. 20 and 25 year retirement pension paid on after age __. Make it 63 or 65. Don't go blowing up on my numbers I am just spitballing here. By doing that the younger ones, who started earlier and planned better can get out and go do something else. THEN when they turn (say 63) they know the pension that they earned begins. The pension remains solvent, you get younger, newer drivers in and the older drivers get to begin living!

Already have that, age 57

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

This is why a lot of us are voting no on this contract.

25 and out at any age $2,000
25 and 57 years of age $2,500 plus $100 for each year of service
30 and out at any age 3,900 at any age after Jan. 2020
35 and out is $4,300 after Jan.2020.
Anybody that votes yes to this contract is accepting a $1900 dollar discrepancy for 5 years of seniority. If you became a full timer at 21 and retire at 51 you get $3900 with a longer life expectancy than a 57 year old that retires with 25 friend/T years and only gets $2500. Not to mention any friend/T that retires before 57 and only gets $2,000.

Take the early retirement and invest it. After 5 years the returns on the principal you've accumulated could get close to making up the monthly difference.

Of course you would need to have enough personal savings to live off of to not need the pension, I know a lot of people can't seem to manage that for whatever reason.

I'm out at 57 if I get the chance.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Take the early retirement and invest it. After 5 years the returns on the principal you've accumulated could get close to making up the monthly difference.

Of course you would need to have enough personal savings to live off of to not need the pension, I know a lot of people can't seem to manage that for whatever reason.

I'm out at 57 if I get the chance.

Hope you start a 401k...

 

[Foamer Pyle]

Take the early retirement and invest it. After 5 years the returns on the principal you've accumulated could get close to making up the monthly difference.

Of course you would need to have enough personal savings to live off of to not need the pension, I know a lot of people can't seem to manage that for whatever reason.

I'm out at 57 if I get the chance.

The problem is, i would get penalized for using my 401k or our other saved money that is tax deferred. I will be 56 with 30 years, but dont want to wait till 2018 to get that pension bump. I have paid my dues, and so has everyone else that has hung in there for that amount of time. We deserve that pension bump the day the contract gets ratified.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

The problem is, i would get penalized for using my 401k or our other saved money that is tax deferred. I will be 56 with 30 years, but dont want to wait till 2018 to get that pension bump. I have paid my dues, and so has everyone else that has hung in there for that amount of time. We deserve that pension bump the day the contract gets ratified.

Then tell the Union negotiators that and vote "NO".
What you are suggesting is a huge adjustment to the Financial part of the negotiations/contract.

What do you think the Union should give up (on your behalf) to offset the financial impact?

 

[Tony Q]

This is why a lot of us are voting no on this contract.

25 and out at any age $2,000
25 and 57 years of age $2,500 plus $100 for each year of service
30 and out at any age 3,900 at any age after Jan. 2020
35 and out is $4,300 after Jan.2020.
Anybody that votes yes to this contract is accepting a $1900 dollar discrepancy for 5 years of seniority. If you became a full timer at 21 and retire at 51 you get $3900 with a longer life expectancy than a 57 year old that retires with 25 friend/T years and only gets $2500. Not to mention any friend/T that retires before 57 and only gets $2,000.

So now its our fault that you started working here at 37 years old, unbelievable.