UnconTROLLed
perfection
What a ridiculous scenerio this is, no offense Tourists24.
Interesting scenario
- Thread starter tourists24
- Start date
Leftinbuilding
Well-Known Member
It was a drill. By definition, it is a practice run in preparation for the real thing. So you should respond as you would in an actual emergency. Your returning to your car would, in a real situation, put others at risk. Say someone saw you arrive, but you are not at the meet point. Now the assumption is you must still be inside.So someone, mgmnt, firefighter, whatever, has to risk their life to go back in to find you. Meanwhile you are safely, selfishly, sitting in your car. Practice like you play. I have never understood the mentality that thinks only of themselves.
tourists24
Well-Known Member
none taken,,, and I totally agree with you....
menotyou
bella amicizia
As you said, a drill. Which management damn well knows is to be conducted on the clock. Again, if it were a real emergency, why would he have to enter the building just to evacuate it, as management wanted him to do? If it were a drill to be conducted as a if it did happen in that timeframe, he would go DIRECTLY to the meet point(and be paid for his time). NOT ENTER THE BURNING BUILDING JUST TO WALK OUT AGAIN.
tourists24
Well-Known Member
Sorry you feel that way. But a drill should be done during our working hours. I understand your point in a real scenario. This was a "drill" and was thought out in advance. We should be paid for it. I am theirs on the clock. Until I punch in I dont take their orders.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
WRONG (IMO!)
Please, give me a break... No one will ever convince me to walk briskly towards an emergency like a fire or God forbid something worse, only to try to escape.
Also, by going into the building you are creating a resistance to people possibly struggling for their lives to GET OUT.
What if the emergency evac routes were blocked, or inaccessible and the only way OUT was a pedestrian door that is used for entering the building?
Sorry ,just does not make sense to me.
I understand your points but in this case it is not logical nor realistic to expect people to move into danger. What you are saying is fine if you were already inside the building and accounted for face-to-face with coworkers but these employees were clearly not inside the building yet, nor "accounted for".
Benben
Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
I honestly think this is getting blown a bit out of porportion.
#1. Walk paths in the yard are to be used! This is the first rule in yard control proceedures. It matters not if you are on the clock or not, comming or going. It is a safety issue in a place where there is a real risk of injury. We have people die every year in accidents that occure in UPS yards around the country.
#2. Your start time is posted every Friday. If you can not get to your DIAD due to an ongoing evac drill, so what? You punch-in for the posted time and still get paid.
Now, if you tell us they refuse to pay you when you are there at your scheduled start time but they are doing something that prevents you from reaching the time clock thats another issue. I am not seeing that this is the case!
For those of you who are trying to say that "UPS" can not force you to abide by "their" safety rules when you are not on the clock, but while on "their" property I suggest you rethink your possition! This is an OSHA issue and if you think for one second that "UPS" values you more than the MILLIONS in dollars OSHA can and will levy in fines you need professional help!!
#1. Walk paths in the yard are to be used! This is the first rule in yard control proceedures. It matters not if you are on the clock or not, comming or going. It is a safety issue in a place where there is a real risk of injury. We have people die every year in accidents that occure in UPS yards around the country.
#2. Your start time is posted every Friday. If you can not get to your DIAD due to an ongoing evac drill, so what? You punch-in for the posted time and still get paid.
Now, if you tell us they refuse to pay you when you are there at your scheduled start time but they are doing something that prevents you from reaching the time clock thats another issue. I am not seeing that this is the case!
For those of you who are trying to say that "UPS" can not force you to abide by "their" safety rules when you are not on the clock, but while on "their" property I suggest you rethink your possition! This is an OSHA issue and if you think for one second that "UPS" values you more than the MILLIONS in dollars OSHA can and will levy in fines you need professional help!!
menotyou
bella amicizia
You need to re-read the OP. OSHA does not require anyone to participate in a company activity off the clock. Period. Talk about needing professional help.
Leftinbuilding
Well-Known Member
I agree, I don't understand the order to first enter the building, only to immediately exit. That doesn't make sense. My concern is with refusing to report to the meet point. In my mind, safety overrides convenience, and even money. Different strokes........
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Oh noes, the building is on fire! Quick guys and gals, walk briskly but don't run!, follow the designated path inside, so you can escape back outside according to OSHAs regulations!!
menotyou
bella amicizia
old levi's
blank space
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Benben
Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
"There was a lot of problems when some drivers did not enter the building and started either heading back to their cars or heading to our meet point without using designated walk paths. The safety people were going nuts demanding they enter the building and then exit again using the correct walk path. I simply told them I was heading to my car and if there was a problem, talk to me on the clock. My question is, I know it is their property but how does an employee handle this? They dont own me til I clock in and I will not acknowledge their commands til I am on the clock."--tourists24
-->Reading comprehension for the lose!! I'll try to explain it to you. The OP was in the building when one of the sorts or centers in his building ran a scheduled drill, a required drill for UPS as well as for Ketter and thus OSHA. The OP made a conscience decision (because he wasn't "on the clock yet") to ignore yard safety and leave either through an over-head door and/or walk outside the walk path. He then gets bent out of shape because the safety crew forced him to pull his head out of his arse and redo it correctly even though he wasn't "on the clock."
I guess I don't see it the way you do. In my mind, if an idiot is dumb enough or is so lazy as to ignore required safety proceedures just because he hasn't "timed in yet" then he should be treated like my 10 year old and be made to do it again correctly. Show me where in the rules it says, "staying within designated walk paths unless you are the OP and off the clock," or, "entering/exiting the building through pedestrian doors unless you happen to be the OP who is not on the clock yet!"
He should be disciplined for failure to follow safety proceedures, proceedures in place to protect him. If an employee can not follow simple, very clear, safety rules that even a 10 year old can perform, then maybe he should be flipping burgers somewhere or go get himself a job as a Walmart Greeter. Do you believe that we, as UPSers, are so extra special that we should be allowed to pick and choose which safety rules we will follow and which ones we can just blow off/ignore depending on our status with respect to being, "on the clock" or not? I have 50 cents here in my pocket, would you care to buy yourself a clue?
The OP is obviously a sad little man talking about "owning me" and "acknowledging their commands." He obviously hates his job. Life is too short to not like what one does for a living. Go find something to do that makes you happy. I don't understand people that insist on living small, angry lives.
tourists24
Well-Known Member
Well arent you just the life of the party. I hate to burst your bubble, but it doesnt sound like me that needs a life. FYI, I did leave to go to my car. It was in a designated walk path, just not the one leading to the rally point. A couple of other drivers cut across the yard in order to get to the rally point. This is when they were told they needed to enter the building from the walk path from the parking lot and then re exit at the walk path to the rally point.
There is no reason this drill had to be done off the clock. They did it to save a dime. You can try to discipline me for whatever you want. I had not reported for work and I am free to go to my car and leave if I wish. Call me whatever you want. UPS has you when they pay you. Sorry if I dont kowtow to their demands off the clock. They own me enough as it is. So nanny nanny boo boo
ymelord
Well-Known Member
Do what you are supposed to do. Go to your meeting place and do it by the book. Then code it as saftey training, you wil get paid for it because if there was no emergency, and it wasn't training -in which they have to do on the clock- then somebody broke the law. you can't pull the alarm just to pull the alarm. grieve it for the time, i'd have to look what to grieve it under but there is something, and you get paid from that time on as your start time
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I miss the harangues of the locker room lawyers!
tourists24
Well-Known Member
Well I think I have decided how to solve this from now on.... I simply will not show up on property til about 2 minutes before my start time. That will allow me just enough time to get out of my car, get inside, grab my board and get to the PCM. I usually like to be there a little earlier but I will just have to get out of bed about 15 minutes later ** sigh** lol.
