Iraq 10 years after

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.

Since June, the compound has been held by the Islamic State, the world’s most radical and violent jihadist group. In a letter sent to the United Nations this summer, the Iraqi government said that about 2,500 corroded chemical rockets remained on the grounds, and that Iraqi officials had witnessed intruders looting equipment before militants shut down the surveillance cameras.
 

The Other Side

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Troll
Many chemical weapons incidents clustered around the ruins of the Muthanna State Establishment, the center of Iraqi chemical agent production in the 1980s.

Since June, the compound has been held by the Islamic State, the world’s most radical and violent jihadist group. In a letter sent to the United Nations this summer, the Iraqi government said that about 2,500 corroded chemical rockets remained on the grounds, and that Iraqi officials had witnessed intruders looting equipment before militants shut down the surveillance cameras.

The stuff is useless.

Sarin gas, mustard gas and the like has a shelf life of 6 months. Any chemical weapons would be more harmful to those trying to mess with them vs. them being able to use them and re weaponize them.

TOS.
 

Panin

Well-Known Troll
Troll
You clearly give them more credit than they deserve. Back in 2006 I posted that it wasn't uncommon to find chemical weapons in Iraq and got attacked relentlessly by the same ones that will come here like troll just did. It's not like this was any type of secret. This information has been around for some time.
I actually agree with you. You did say the chemical weapons were found. The thing is, as the fantastic NYT article explains(emphasis mine):

The discoveries of these chemical weapons did not support the government's invasion rationale.
After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Mr. Bush insisted that Mr. Hussein was hiding an active weapons of mass destruction program, in defiance of international will and at the world's risk. United Nations inspectors said they could not find evidence for these claims.


Then, during the long occupation, American troops began encountering old chemical munitions in hidden caches and roadside bombs. Typically 155-millimeter artillery shells or 122-millimeter rockets, they were remnants of an arms program Iraq had rushed into production in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.


All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
I actually agree with you. You did say the chemical weapons were found. The thing is, as the fantastic NYT article explains(emphasis mine):

The discoveries of these chemical weapons did not support the government's invasion rationale.
After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Mr. Bush insisted that Mr. Hussein was hiding an active weapons of mass destruction program, in defiance of international will and at the world's risk. United Nations inspectors said they could not find evidence for these claims.

Then, during the long occupation, American troops began encountering old chemical munitions in hidden caches and roadside bombs. Typically 155-millimeter artillery shells or 122-millimeter rockets, they were remnants of an arms program Iraq had rushed into production in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war.

All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.


Troll too

Thanks for your acknowledgement that I tried to correct the liars here at the time.

Although you aren't factually correct when you claim this wasnt a violation of the cease fire agreement. I clearly remember the leftists posting at the time that the un inspectors had said that Iraq had destroyed all their chemical weapons which of course wasn't true either. I tried to explain that what they had found was no evidence of the destruction of those weapons.

I also can't help but wonder if in fact these weapons were harmless as troll says how did our soldiers get injured?
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Seems to me if there is any eating crow, it will be preceded by grasping at straws!

I wonder why George Bush and even Cheney never used this to defend themselves when questioned on failing to find WMD? Both accept none were found.
 

The Other Side

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Troll
Troll too

Thanks for your acknowledgement that I tried to correct the liars here at the time.

Although you aren't factually correct when you claim this wasnt a violation of the cease fire agreement. I clearly remember the leftists posting at the time that the un inspectors had said that Iraq had destroyed all their chemical weapons which of course wasn't true either. I tried to explain that what they had found was no evidence of the destruction of those weapons.

I also can't help but wonder if in fact these weapons were harmless as troll says how did our soldiers get injured?

What was said AV8, was that Iraq had NO CURRENT weapons of mass destruction program, and ANY weapons currently in the country were DEGRADED and UNUSABLE.

Those that were destroyed were supervised by inspectors. Those that were in decaying conditions, were supposed to be REMOVED by US SERVICE specialists, which by all accounts, was NEVER done.

This in no way vindicates BUSH/CHENEY for thier weapons of mass destruction claims.

Rumsfeld and Cheney may have given Saddam Hussein his chemicals of mass destruction back in the 80's under the direct orders of President Reagan, but they were useless in 2001.

Dont pat yourself on the back. Youre still wrong.

TOS.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Seems to me if there is any eating crow, it will be preceded by grasping at straws!

I wonder why George Bush and even Cheney never used this to defend themselves when questioned on failing to find WMD? Both accept none were found.


They've both answered those questions. Years ago when you brought that up I reminded you they said no stockpiles were found.

I also posted years ago my thoughts on this in the other threads.
 

Panin

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Troll too

Thanks for your acknowledgement that I tried to correct the liars here at the time.

Although you aren't factually correct when you claim this wasnt a violation of the cease fire agreement. I clearly remember the leftists posting at the time that the un inspectors had said that Iraq had destroyed all their chemical weapons which of course wasn't true either. I tried to explain that what they had found was no evidence of the destruction of those weapons.

I also can't help but wonder if in fact these weapons were harmless as troll says how did our soldiers get injured?
First, I never claimed anything. The NYT article states that there was no evidence of an active weapons program, and there wasn't because it didn't exist.

The weapons were not usable as intended. The shells could not be fired. If you read the NYT piece, they talked about finding some rigged to failed IED's. The shells were dangerous to handle, which is why our guys got injured, and they were not always identified as chemical. The article is quit good,m and deserves a rereads.

I wonder why George Bush and even Cheney never used this to defend themselves when questioned on failing to find WMD? Both accept none were found.
wkmac, really? Why didn't they admit that the only weapons Iraq had were the ones we gave them under Reagan and GWB? From the article:

Participants in the chemical weapons discoveries said the United States suppressed knowledge of finds for multiple reasons, including that the government bristled at further acknowledgment it had been wrong. "They needed something to say that after Sept. 11 Saddam used chemical rounds," Mr. Lampier said. "And all of this was from the pre-1991 era."
 

The Other Side

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All these people DIED from american chemical weapons given to Saddam Hussein by Reagan via donald rumsfeld and dick cheney.


Main article: Iraqi chemical weapons program
LocationWeapon UsedDateCasualties
Haij UmranMustardAugust 1983fewer than 100 Iranian/Kurdish
PanjwinMustardOctober–November 19833,001 Iranian/Kurdish
Majnoon IslandMustardFebruary–March 19842,500 Iranians
al-BasrahTabunMarch 198450-100 Iranians
Hawizah MarshMustard & TabunMarch 19853,000 Iranians
al-FawMustard & TabunFebruary 19868,000 to 10,000 Iranians
Um ar-RasasMustardDecember 19861,000s Iranians
al-BasrahMustard & TabunApril 19875,000 Iranians
Sumar/MehranMustard & nerve agentOctober 19873,000 Iranians
HalabjahMustard & nerve agentMarch 19887,000s Kurdish/Iranian
al-FawMustard & nerve agentApril 19881,000s Iranians
Fish LakeMustard & nerve agentMay 1988100s or 1,000s Iranians
Majnoon IslandsMustard & nerve agentJune 1988100s or 1,000s Iranians
South-central borderMustard & nerve agentJuly 1988100s or 1,000s Iranians
an-Najaf -
Karbala area
 

The Other Side

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AV8, the us military found tons of useless chemical weapons completely un usuable.

for example

A post-war case occurred on January 9, 2004, when Icelandic munitions experts and Danish military engineers discovered 36 120-mm mortar rounds containing liquid buried in Southern Iraq. While initial tests suggested that the rounds contained a blister agent, a chemical weapon banned by the Geneva Convention,[citation needed] subsequent analysis by American and Danish experts showed that no chemical agent was present.[112] It appears that the rounds have been buried, and most probably forgotten, since the Iran–Iraq War. Some of the munitions were in an advanced state of decay and most of the weaponry would likely have been unusable.

BUSH does not get off the hook for his massive weapons of mass destruction claims.

TOS.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
What was said AV8, was that Iraq had NO CURRENT weapons of mass destruction program, and ANY weapons currently in the country were DEGRADED and UNUSABLE.

Those that were destroyed were supervised by inspectors. Those that were in decaying conditions, were supposed to be REMOVED by US SERVICE specialists, which by all accounts, was NEVER done.

This in no way vindicates BUSH/CHENEY for thier weapons of mass destruction claims.

Rumsfeld and Cheney may have given Saddam Hussein his chemicals of mass destruction back in the 80's under the direct orders of President Reagan, but they were useless in 2001.

Dont pat yourself on the back. Youre still wrong.

TOS.


Troll

Your inaccuracy isn't surprising.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
AV8, the us military found tons of useless chemical weapons completely un usuable.
TOS.

Troll

I am proud of you. After years of denial at least you can now admit they existed.

You are so consistently incorrect I must ask if that is intentional.
 
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Panin

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Troll
old & av8r, you really need to get over the name calling. The NYT article is quite damning to the previous administration, and the US military leadership in Iraq.

The whole thing was covered up. The end of the NYT article says:

The United States had invaded Iraq to reduce the risk of the weapons of mass destruction that it presumed Mr. Hussein still possessed. And after years of encountering and handling Iraq’s old chemical arms, it had retroactively informed the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in 2009 that it had recovered more than 4,500 chemical weapons.


But it had not shared this data publicly. And as it prepared to withdraw, old stocks set loose after the invasion were still circulating. Al Muthanna had still not been cleaned up.


Finding, safeguarding and destroying these weapons was to be the responsibility of Iraq’s government.


Iraq took initial steps to fulfill its obligations. It drafted a plan to entomb the contaminated bunkers on Al Muthanna, which still held remnant chemical stocks, in concrete.


When three journalists from The Times visited Al Muthanna in 2013, a knot of Iraqi police officers and soldiers guarded the entrance. Two contaminated bunkers — one containing cyanide precursors and old sarin rockets — loomed behind. The area where Marines had found mustard shells in 2008 was out of sight, shielded by scrub and shimmering heat.


The Iraqi troops who stood at that entrance are no longer there. The compound, never entombed, is now controlled by the Islamic State.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
old & av8r, you really need to get over the name calling. The NYT article is quite damning to the previous administration, and the US military leadership in Iraq.
.

Troll too

Nothing was covered up. I linked to that information years ago. The article is quite damning of government health care.
 

Panin

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Troll
Liberal NYT article blaming the previous administration? Say it isn't so!
Did you read the article, or are you just trying to be contrary?

When baba posted, before he read the article, obviously, he thought it would vindicate Bush. Av8r chimed in with an 'I told you so.'

This is a huge scandal, more so about the Pentagon than the Bush administration, but they figure in, too. The only WMDs were obsolete, and provide by us. The coverup is always worse than the crime.
 

Panin

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Troll too

Nothing was covered up. I linked to that information years ago. The article is quite damning of government health care.
No, quite damning of Pentagon leadership, and government heath care withheld or denied.

You never linked anything, you gave anecdotal evidence based on what you had heard.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
Did you read the article, or are you just trying to be contrary?

When baba posted, before he read the article, obviously, he thought it would vindicate Bush. Av8r chimed in with an 'I told you so.'

This is a huge scandal, more so about the Pentagon than the Bush administration, but they figure in, too. The only WMDs were obsolete, and provide by us. The coverup is always worse than the crime.

No scandal here. Nothing new anyway. It has been well reported that there were WMD's in Iraq and it is just that now the liberals who tried to claim there weren't are now admitting there were WMD's.
 
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