Is ground now delivering Express freight?

slowdriver

Well-Known Member
This company is dying. Every new idea they have is just another desperate attempt to cling to life. I'm sure they'll come up with big new ideas that squeeze a few more years out of it, but the convoluted Fedex business model is obsolete and being replaced by amazon.

Use fedex to get your CDL, or take advantage of tuition reimbursement and get prepared, 5 years from now there probably wont be much left.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
The RLA status of Express drivers depends on the 2 opcos remaining distinct and separate.
No it doesn't, and there's nothing anywhere --no legislation, no administrative action or requirement, no court case, no NMB or NLRB decision that says anything to that effect. None. Zero.

And you know it.
The whole premise of the Railway Labor Act of 1934 (!!!!) was to prevent a national disruption of the economy due to the critical nature of the RAILROADS...in 1934, when trucking was in it's infancy and railroads were actually critical for nearly everything. If the railroads shut down in 1934, it would have definitely disrupted the entire economy."Express" in those days was REA, and they depended on the railroads to move their packages. If FedEx Express dried-up and blew away tomorrow it would NOT disrupt the national economy like a nationwide railroad strike would have (in 1934) or even today. That volume would simply transfer over to other carriers. Sorry, but there is simply no comparison between the railroads and FedEx Express. Smith and his defenders (like you) have always maintained that FedEx Express was some special entity that deserved special treatment. No, and NO, and NO again!! There is no reason for FedEx to be categorized as an "airline", especially now, when it's abundantly clear that FedEx is a Systems Integrator, just like UPS. Every package they divert to the new "hybrid" is further evidence that FedEx Express does NOT deserve to be classified as an airline. The RLA exists solely to serve Fred S and his successors by making it essentially impossible to organize the company, and Smith has leveraged the RLA status hard over the years, extorting Boeing on 777 orders and calling-in his favors with politicians every time the RLA is questioned in Congress because "Removing FedEx Express from RLA jurisdiction could expose our customers at any time to local work stoppages that interrupt the flow of their time-sensitive, high-value shipments through our global network". That is straight from Satan's mouth in 2009 when noises were made about reclassification. God, what a liar.

This is why FedEx tries so very hard to be an "airline", with airport station identifiers where there is no airport, and closed facilities where union organizers (or anyone else for that matter) are forbidden to set foot on company property. This is why you never see The United Way on FedEx property, or law enforcement except in instances where there is an active crime or investigation. Our Safety Focal tried (in vain) to have someone from our state's Commercial Vehicle Safety Department speak to RTDs, only to be shut down because Legal said "NO ACCESS". By keeping EVERYONE out, they also keep the Teamster's out.
Great dissertation. Express is an airline.

Like I said earlier, there are all kinds of citations and cases and so on about Express, the RLA, and other related issues spanning nearly 50 years. I'm impressed that you have managed to ignore ALL OF IT and rely solely on your sort belt lawyer reasoning and tirades. Really says a lot!
 
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Godzilla55

Well-Known Member
This company is dying. Every new idea they have is just another desperate attempt to cling to life. I'm sure they'll come up with big new ideas that squeeze a few more years out of it, but the convoluted Fedex business model is obsolete and being replaced by amazon.

Use fedex to get your CDL, or take advantage of tuition reimbursement and get prepared, 5 years from now there probably wont be much left.
Glad I’m done with this company in 3yrs, 8mos and 18 days!
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
No it doesn't, and there's nothing anywhere --no legislation, no administrative action or requirement, no court case, no NMB or NLRB decision that says anything to that effect. None. Zero.

And you know it.

Great dissertation. Express is an airline.

Like I said earlier, there are all kinds of citations and cases and so on about Express, the RLA, and other related issues spanning nearly 50 years. I'm impressed that you have managed to ignore ALL OF IT and rely solely on your sort belt lawyer reasoning and tirades. Really says a lot!
The circus is missing a clown, and you know it. Get back to your real job. The dynamic has changed, and no matter how you try to spin it, FedEx has fundamentally been altered into something that is definitely NOT an airline. And you know it.

You're a company troll. And you know it.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
Even if Fred owned a lumber company or a dance studio, he’d still go to D.C. and try to convince his politician buddies with his checkbook that he should be under the RLA.

The whole RLA thing has been a joke all along. Now it’s just an obvious sick joke.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
The circus is missing a clown, and you know it. Get back to your real job. The dynamic has changed, and no matter how you try to spin it, FedEx has fundamentally been altered into something that is definitely NOT an airline. And you know it.

You're a company troll. And you know it.
The issue, and any reasonable discussion of it, is far beyond your comprehension.

And you know it.

That's why you rely on nothing -nothing- but arguments that have no basis in legislation, administrative law, court cases, any of that. It's just your usual sort belt lawyer stupidity that no one but the dumbest of dopes put any stock into. You sound like one of those sovereigns on YouTube talking about how you don't need a license plate because you don't drive a car, you travel in a vessel.

Feel free to rejoin the discussion if you ever venture out and learn about the issue.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
The issue, and any reasonable discussion of it, is far beyond your comprehension.

And you know it.

That's why you rely on nothing -nothing- but arguments that have no basis in legislation, administrative law, court cases, any of that. It's just your usual sort belt lawyer stupidity that no one but the dumbest of dopes put any stock into. You sound like one of those sovereigns on YouTube talking about how you don't need a license plate because you don't drive a car, you travel in a vessel.

Feel free to rejoin the discussion if you ever venture out and learn about the issue.
Please tell me how a corporation that has essentially combined an NLRA company with an RLA company gets to decide that the existing labor laws don't apply to them? FedEx has greased the right politicians, so they get special treatment that allows them to do whatever they please, right? My "Belt Lawyer Stupidity" has the legal minds of The Teamsters Union wondering the same thing. "Yes, we're an airline so we can keep our Express employees non-union, but we're not an airline when we use our Ground opco to deliver our airline packages". Just like Burger King, we want things our way.

As usual, you don't see any issues with FedEx doing whatever they please because you've drunk the Kool-Aid. Plus, they pay you to monitor social media to put out "fires". Sorry, pal, but you are the sovereign citizen here. You just haven't been pulled over by the right cop yet and placed before a real judge that doesn't belong to Fred.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
The issue, and any reasonable discussion of it, is far beyond your comprehension.

And you know it.

That's why you rely on nothing -nothing- but arguments that have no basis in legislation, administrative law, court cases, any of that. It's just your usual sort belt lawyer stupidity that no one but the dumbest of dopes put any stock into. You sound like one of those sovereigns on YouTube talking about how you don't need a license plate because you don't drive a car, you travel in a vessel.

Feel free to rejoin the discussion if you ever venture out and learn about the issue.
Mr. FedEx getting on your nerves huh? That's so sad. You see, Mr. Fed Ex never went to the Fed Ex Mind Control And Reeducation Academy. AS a result and unlike you....he can still think for himself.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Please tell me how a corporation that has essentially combined an NLRA company with an RLA company gets to decide that the existing labor laws don't apply to them?
Well, for starters, they didn't combine an NLRA company with an RLA company. Second, you still don't know what you're talking about and that's why you have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever... EVER...

...been able to cite any court case, administrative finding, or any legal ANYTHING of relevance from the 50+ years that Express has been under the RLA that even remotely suggests that are misclassified.

Nothing.

You can keep trying or you can shut up.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Mr. FedEx getting on your nerves huh? That's so sad. You see, Mr. Fed Ex never went to the Fed Ex Mind Control And Reeducation Academy. AS a result and unlike you....he can still think for himself.
I can read about the RLA and its application. Neither of you can.
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
Well, for starters, they didn't combine an NLRA company with an RLA company. Second, you still don't know what you're talking about and that's why you have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever... EVER...

...been able to cite any court case, administrative finding, or any legal ANYTHING of relevance from the 50+ years that Express has been under the RLA that even remotely suggests that are misclassified.

Nothing.

You can keep trying or you can shut up.
What is Network 2.0 and DRIVE then? You can claim all you want that FedEx isn't combining the two but the facts say otherwise. There will be another challenge to the RLA status and it won't go the way you think it will.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
It's a farce. Express will soon be under the NLRA and you can go back to cleaning up after the elephants at the circus.
News flash: you still don't know what you're talking about.

Feel free to contribute to the debate once you get the basics. Until then, step aside. Grown-ups are talking, son.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
What is Network 2.0 and DRIVE then? You can claim all you want that FedEx isn't combining the two but the facts say otherwise. There will be another challenge to the RLA status and it won't go the way you think it will.
Right now, Express couriers deliver Express packages. With DRIVE and Network 2.0, that will mean that Express couriers deliver Express packages.

I invite you, just like any of the others of your ilk, to present something -anything- from the court system, the Dept of Labor, National Mediation Board, NLRB, or any other entity to support your terribly misguided opinions about this. Your sovereign citizen level arguments aren't going to work.
 

AB831

Well-Known Member
Right now, Express couriers deliver Express packages. With DRIVE and Network 2.0, that will mean that Express couriers deliver Express packages.

I invite you, just like any of the others of your ilk, to present something -anything- from the court system, the Dept of Labor, National Mediation Board, NLRB, or any other entity to support your terribly misguided opinions about this. Your sovereign citizen level arguments aren't going to work.
Don’t have a brain aneurysm while licking that purple boot there.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
It's a farce. Express will soon be under the NLRA and you can go back to cleaning up after the elephants at the circus.

Federal Express Corp vs California Public Utilities Commission, 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, 1991:

The trucking operations of Federal Express are integral to its operation as an air carrier. The trucking operations are not some separate business venture; they are part and parcel of the air delivery system. Every truck carries packages that are in interstate commerce by air. The use of the trucks depends on the conditions of air delivery. The timing of the trucks is meshed with the schedules of the planes.

If you want to bring some of your other silly "COURIERS DON'T FLY PLANES THEY DRIVE TRUCKS!!' gibberish into the discussion...

United Parcel Service, Inc. vs NLRB, United States Court of Appeals, 1996:

Moreover, the NMB has typically required a trucking service that is commonly owned and operated with an RLA carrier to meet at least three criteria before the NMB would consider exercising jurisdiction over the service:
1:the trucker must perform services principally for an RLA carrier with which it is affiliated;
2:the trucker must be an integral part of that affiliate; and
3:the trucker must provide services "essential to the [RLA] carrier's operations."


And while we're at it...
Federal Express Corporation, NMB File No. CJ-6463, NLRB Case 4-RC-17698, 23 NMB No. 13 (Nov. 22, 1995):

The RLA does not limit its coverage to air carrier employees who fly or maintain aircraft. Rather, its coverage extends to virtually all employees engaged in performing a service for the carrier so that the carrier may transport passengers or freight. ... The limit [on coverage] is that the carrier must have continuing authority to supervise and direct [its employees]. ... The couriers, tractor-trailer drivers, operations agents and other employees sought by the UAW are employed by FedEx directly. As the record amply demonstrates, these employees, as part of FedEx’s air express delivery system, are supervised by FedEx employees. The Board need not look further to find that all of the FedEx [Express] employees are subject to the RLA. ...

It has been the Board’s consistent position that the fact of employment by a “carrier” under the Act is determinative of the status of all that carrier’s employees as subject to the Act. The effort to carve out or to separate the so-called over-the-road drivers would be contrary to and do violence to a long line of decisions by this Board which would embrace the policy of refraining from setting up a multiplicity of crafts or classes.


Oh, and there's this...
Federal Express Corporation, NMB File No. CJ-6463, NLRB Case 4-RC-17698), 23 NMB No. 13, at 73–74 (Nov. 22, 1995):

Where, as here, the company at issue is a common carrier by air, the Act’s jurisdiction does not depend upon whether there is an integral relationship between its air carrier activities and the functions performed by the carrier’s employees in question. The Board need not consider the relationship between the work performed by employees of a common carrier and the air carrier’s mission, because [the RLA] encompasses every pilot or other person who performs any work as an employee or subordinate official of such carrier or carriers. ...

Even if the Board were to assume, arguendo that the “integrally related” test applies to the facts in this case, the Board would hold in concurrence with the [FedEx v. California PUC decision] that the trucking operations of FedEx [Express] are integral to its operations as an air carrier.


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bacha29

Well-Known Member
Federal Express Corp vs California Public Utilities Commission, 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, 1991:

The trucking operations of Federal Express are integral to its operation as an air carrier. The trucking operations are not some separate business venture; they are part and parcel of the air delivery system. Every truck carries packages that are in interstate commerce by air. The use of the trucks depends on the conditions of air delivery. The timing of the trucks is meshed with the schedules of the planes.

If you want to bring some of your other silly "COURIERS DON'T FLY PLANES THEY DRIVE TRUCKS!!' gibberish into the discussion...

United Parcel Service, Inc. vs NLRB, United States Court of Appeals, 1996:

Moreover, the NMB has typically required a trucking service that is commonly owned and operated with an RLA carrier to meet at least three criteria before the NMB would consider exercising jurisdiction over the service:
1:the trucker must perform services principally for an RLA carrier with which it is affiliated;
2:the trucker must be an integral part of that affiliate; and
3:the trucker must provide services "essential to the [RLA] carrier's operations."


And while we're at it...
Federal Express Corporation, NMB File No. CJ-6463, NLRB Case 4-RC-17698, 23 NMB No. 13 (Nov. 22, 1995):

The RLA does not limit its coverage to air carrier employees who fly or maintain aircraft. Rather, its coverage extends to virtually all employees engaged in performing a service for the carrier so that the carrier may transport passengers or freight. ... The limit [on coverage] is that the carrier must have continuing authority to supervise and direct [its employees]. ... The couriers, tractor-trailer drivers, operations agents and other employees sought by the UAW are employed by FedEx directly. As the record amply demonstrates, these employees, as part of FedEx’s air express delivery system, are supervised by FedEx employees. The Board need not look further to find that all of the FedEx [Express] employees are subject to the RLA. ...

It has been the Board’s consistent position that the fact of employment by a “carrier” under the Act is determinative of the status of all that carrier’s employees as subject to the Act. The effort to carve out or to separate the so-called over-the-road drivers would be contrary to and do violence to a long line of decisions by this Board which would embrace the policy of refraining from setting up a multiplicity of crafts or classes.


Oh, and there's this...
Federal Express Corporation, NMB File No. CJ-6463, NLRB Case 4-RC-17698), 23 NMB No. 13, at 73–74 (Nov. 22, 1995):

Where, as here, the company at issue is a common carrier by air, the Act’s jurisdiction does not depend upon whether there is an integral relationship between its air carrier activities and the functions performed by the carrier’s employees in question. The Board need not consider the relationship between the work performed by employees of a common carrier and the air carrier’s mission, because [the RLA] encompasses every pilot or other person who performs any work as an employee or subordinate official of such carrier or carriers. ...

Even if the Board were to assume, arguendo that the “integrally related” test applies to the facts in this case, the Board would hold in concurrence with the [FedEx v. California PUC decision] that the trucking operations of FedEx [Express] are integral to its operations as an air carrier.


View attachment 418600
These rulings were handed down before Fat Freddy bought up RPS/ Caliber. A company operating under a different DOT operating authority.

Once again Fat Freddy wants it both ways. He wants to claim that the two are separate in order to keep the huge economies and anti union firewall the Ground contractor model provides him with. While at the same time further expand those economies
through the unofficial integration of the two OPCO's by dumping as much Express air box freight into Ground that he thinks he can get away with.

The question is....will he? Or is this another one of those "alternative facts" or "the truth isn't the truth" scenarios? A case where Ground is both Ground and Express whenever it benefits Fat Freddy. Sort of like the life of a Ground contractor. When it comes to total command and control...you're an employee. But when it comes to the divestiture of risk liability and variable cost.....well then you're an "independent contractor".
 
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