Just fired...I feel so dumb

[Bristol Brown]

Dont ever put yourself out for UPS or its customers especially when you have to break the law to do so no matter how petty the law.

UPS as a company is full of idiots who break the law on a daily basis to make figures add up,its whole business plan is based around idiots who break the law ie: skip dinner and not have proper rest between shifts.

At the end of the day you are delivering a package and it`s not a matter of life or death.

 

[Feelsdumb]

Just had meeting. The termination stood. The guy said that we have a strong case to put before the panel because of how the local supervisors view me positively and that I haven't had any other violation on my record. It seemed weird to me that he told us that considering he was the one upholding the firing. The union guys said they recommended the panel and that they were making an example out of me. I'm so scared now. I have no job or medical insurance. I just didn't see it ending this way.

 

[klein]

Gee, an another thread some pro conservative member wrote that only a handful of people want health insurance. You one of very few, I suppose.

But, sarcasim by the side.
You get another hearing or is that the end of it ?
Will the union keep fighting ?

 

[menotyou]

It sounds like someone through you under the bus. Remember this in the future. Sorry about the way it went down, Feels. I really wish you the best.

Me

 

[Covemastah]

Alot of people at UPS ,and here on this board have done a lot of crazy and stupid things over the years to HELP OUT or TAKE one for the TEAM !!! Most of us at one time drank the Brown Kool Aid, though most forget !! You know it was wrong and yet you tried to take one for the team !!
Unfortunatley for you,we are in the computer age where nothing can be hidden.
This KID made a big mistake , and knows it. Was man enough to admit it and just wants to move on and get his job back !! LETS ALL drop our STONES and wish him the best !!
We all skipped lunch at one time in our career and we all pulled send agains off car after punching out and other silly things !! Lets not convict him here,let the UNION take care of him as he just deserves and just wish him the best as it could of been anyone of us back in the day !!!
Good Luck Kid and I know you learned a lesson !!!

 

[over9five]

Does the supervisor who directed you to do this still have his job?

 

[grgrcr88]

Don't give up yet!! I could have told you in advance that the local hearing would be deadlocked simply because you have been out this long. The manager has been told by someone above him not to settle this one, but to let a panel make the decision. It happens sometimes. Depending on your location you caould have several maro dearings before the termination is final. Here we have local level, two state level, JAC level, then national and finally arbitration. If any of those panels decide to uphold the termination you are done. As long as it is deadlocked you have a chance at the next panel, however it means more time out and stress!! If any of the panels upholds the Unions position you are reinstated. Could be with back pay, could be as all time served as a suspension, so as I said, don't give up yet!!

Good luck and keep us posted. When is the next hearing?

 

[The Other Side]

Just had meeting. The termination stood. The guy said that we have a strong case to put before the panel because of how the local supervisors view me positively and that I haven't had any other violation on my record. It seemed weird to me that he told us that considering he was the one upholding the firing. The union guys said they recommended the panel and that they were making an example out of me. I'm so scared now. I have no job or medical insurance. I just didn't see it ending this way.

There has to be something youre not telling us about your case. Some detail that you wont tell us. You mention the local supervisors view you positively and you have no other discipline in your file, yet they uphold the term>?

Somethings missing from your story. UPS isnt that cold blooded to employees they view "positively".

Heck, I had a case where two preloader got into a fight on the pen, and one of them took a fire extinguisher off the post and clocked the other kid, and even he was reinstated at the first meeting.

IF all the circumstances happened they way "you" say they did, then there would be NO WAY they would uphold the term and dig in on you. In the begining, I suspected that you "added" your supervisors knowledge to the event, and now I am convinced you did this all on your own.

If you did, just say so, then you could get better advice. Telling us your supervisor was in on the deal always throws the case back on the sup, and if thats not the case why say that? Youre already fired, what could it hurt.

I still maintain that you altering your timecard and cheating the system was the dumbest thing you could have done, but lying about the circumstances would be the second dumbest thing you can do.

If you want good advice, be honest.

Peace.

 

[dilligaf]

There has to be something youre not telling us about your case. Some detail that you wont tell us. You mention the local supervisors view you positively and you have no other discipline in your file, yet they uphold the term>?

Somethings missing from your story. UPS isnt that cold blooded to employees they view "positively".

Heck, I had a case where two preloader got into a fight on the pen, and one of them took a fire extinguisher off the post and clocked the other kid, and even he was reinstated at the first meeting.

IF all the circumstances happened they way "you" say they did, then there would be NO WAY they would uphold the term and dig in on you. In the begining, I suspected that you "added" your supervisors knowledge to the event, and now I am convinced you did this all on your own.

If you did, just say so, then you could get better advice. Telling us your supervisor was in on the deal always throws the case back on the sup, and if thats not the case why say that? Youre already fired, what could it hurt.

I still maintain that you altering your timecard and cheating the system was the dumbest thing you could have done, but lying about the circumstances would be the second dumbest thing you can do.

If you want good advice, be honest.

Peace.

Will you knock it off. Do you have to start a war everywhere you go?

 

[Bubblehead]

Don't give up yet!! I could have told you in advance that the local hearing would be deadlocked simply because you have been out this long. The manager has been told by someone above him not to settle this one, but to let a panel make the decision. It happens sometimes. Depending on your location you caould have several maro dearings before the termination is final. Here we have local level, two state level, JAC level, then national and finally arbitration. If any of those panels decide to uphold the termination you are done. As long as it is deadlocked you have a chance at the next panel, however it means more time out and stress!! If any of the panels upholds the Unions position you are reinstated. Could be with back pay, could be as all time served as a suspension, so as I said, don't give up yet!!

Good luck and keep us posted. When is the next hearing?

This is true and the reason why I carry employment insurance.
Anybody interested in finding out how it works feel free to PM me.
Don't wait until it's too late.

 

[Jaybird1960]

Hey, I've been fired for similar cause, & remained on roll working! I did get my job back!
I am responding to your side of what happened!
First of all, I stand with you regardless!
My thoughts & prayers go out to you during this time of stress & trauma!
Stop! Reflect! Write! Write down all that happened, including dates, times, locations & parties involved! separate all events chronologically (as they happened)!
You should submit a greivance immediately in response to the companies action & demand back pay for any lost time( this may motivate the labor manager to resolve this matter during pre-panel "if your Steward's or Business agents have not done so"!
Read your contract while you have the time.
Document all of your actions & interactions, this is also very important when you return to work! Having a Diary chronicling all you do & all that has been done to you serves two purposes...a deterrent & a formidable tool for any Grievance or Defense!
We stand with you Brother! Stand tall!
JayBird1960

 

[over9five]

Welcome to Brown Cafe, Jaybird1960. Excellent first post!

 

[Feelsdumb]

There has to be something youre not telling us about your case. Some detail that you wont tell us. You mention the local supervisors view you positively and you have no other discipline in your file, yet they uphold the term>?

There is nothing else. Of course my sup supported it, why else would the physical time card be changed after I had already submitted it with the correct time. He was already seen to have added the extra time I cut myself on to my time card after I have left. The only way I could have done that was if I hacked the computer. It all was because I physically changed my own time card. I didn't do it before he said it was ok to do it. The sup worked while I was suspended. I don't know his status yet for today, they made it very clear they wouldn't be talking about him because it was an HR issue not a labor issue I guess. If I knew that this would have risked my job there is no way I would have ever thought to do it.

 

[The Other Side]

There is nothing else. Of course my sup supported it, why else would the physical time card be changed after I had already submitted it with the correct time. He was already seen to have added the extra time I cut myself on to my time card after I have left. The only way I could have done that was if I hacked the computer. It all was because I physically changed my own time card. I didn't do it before he said it was ok to do it. The sup worked while I was suspended. I don't know his status yet for today, they made it very clear they wouldn't be talking about him because it was an HR issue not a labor issue I guess. If I knew that this would have risked my job there is no way I would have ever thought to do it.

In your initial grievance hearing, did the agent explain that the supervisor was involved to the level that you say he was, and what was the response from the company? Exactly what was said to address this issue?

Were you allowed to speak at this hearing, and what did you say about the supervisor involved? If you did speak, was the supervisor involved present or called in to discuss your claims? IF not, WHY?

In all cases where a supervisor and an employee are involved in anything collectively, both parties are brought into the meeting and the truth sorted out. The reason i say this is because you said this:

"they made it very clear they wouldn't be talking about him because it was an HR issue not a labor issue I guess"

This isnt an HR issue, its a clear labor issue. The issue is culpability. Who is responsible? You or the supervisor? Clearly, if you did mention the supervisor at your hearing and the company still upheld the termination, then they are saying that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE, and they dont feel whatever you said implicates the supervisor.

Unfortunately, I am not like the other guys, who skim the surface and make judgements based on that skimming. I look deeper into conversations and actions.

Only YOU can help us with the facts by answering all the questions. My real issue is with your own words. You said this " If I knew that this would have risked my job there is no way I would have ever thought to do it."

There are some dangerous words in this statement. This is a statement of sole responsibility, what it does not say, is "If I knew that this would have risked my job, there is no way i would have done this when my supervisor brought up the idea and I agreed to it."

I am sorry if it appears that I am being critical on you, but I deal in truths, and not feelings. I have read your words, and from your words I dont see the truth. Fill me in, what am I missing?

Peace.

 

[Mick32]

They are making an example of feelsstupid. He'll be back.

 

[Feelsdumb]

When I said "there is no way I would have ever thought to do it," I was referencing what I did in physically changing the time card. We both were talking before my shift on how these packages were not going to be able to make service time and what the options were. Who initially came up with the idea I'm not 100% on. I honestly don't remember but I did do wrong by thinking it was a good idea and following through with changing my time card after we established that we were going to do this and that he would change my time in the computer and then add the extra that we cut off from the night before. I naively didn't see any other way to make service on the packages, one being an early am that would have been a guaranteed miss if I had started at the time I should have. I know now after having multiple conversations with the union and especially on here that worrying so much about that type of situation is not in my job description, but at the time I thought I chose the best option, because I didn't think missing service on multiple packages was an option.

 

[The Other Side]

When I said "there is no way I would have ever thought to do it," I was referencing what I did in physically changing the time card. We both were talking before my shift on how these packages were not going to be able to make service time and what the options were. Who initially came up with the idea I'm not 100% on. I honestly don't remember but I did do wrong by thinking it was a good idea and following through with changing my time card after we established that we were going to do this and that he would change my time in the computer and then add the extra that we cut off from the night before. I naively didn't see any other way to make service on the packages, one being an early am that would have been a guaranteed miss if I had started at the time I should have. I know now after having multiple conversations with the union and especially on here that worrying so much about that type of situation is not in my job description, but at the time I thought I chose the best option, because I didn't think missing service on multiple packages was an option.

Ya, I get all that brother, but you still havent answered any of my questions. You provided a bit more info this time around, but you still are dancing around liability. There are alot of "I's" and "WE's" but I dont see anything from you that collaborates the "WE" part.

Indeed, this sucks for you, but I hope through our banter on this thread, someone else will not place himself in this position. Its a tough one to defend if the PROOF is not there.

Good luck on your next step and if you come back, I hope you learned a big lesson.

Peace.

 

[Feelsdumb]

If nothing else, I hope you're right that if my situation saves someone else from going through the same thing then coming on here was worth it. I will update this thread as I know more. As of today after my hearing the sup worked.

 

[Feelsdumb]

*Update*

The supervisor was just now fired. He had been working normally up until this time. They just now made a final decision. He texted me telling me, the first contact from him while going through this whole process, and he wished me luck at my panel. He just said that the local management was pulling for us and just gave encouraging words for me.

 

[over9five]

That's a good sign. They are admitting you were working as directed.
Good luck.