Kim Davis - The Christian Rosa Parks

[wkmac]

God, and his commands, changed as man changed.

Now you are getting close of just who god is in the first place.

 

[soberups]

This is not an issue that the governor needs to act on. This is nothing more than an act of civil disobedience.

Respectfully, you are incorrect.

Civil disobedience is when a private citizen makes a moral decision to refuse to obey an unjust law imposed by the government...with the full willingness to accept the consequences of that choice.

Kim Davis is a government official who is making a "moral" decision to refuse to provide a required service to a private citizen. By refusing to resign a from a job that calls for her to provide that service, she is unwilling to accept the consequence of that choice.

 

[tourists24]

I like what NC has passed into law. Senate Bill 2 allows those magistrates not to perform any marriages if its against their religious convictions. This allows gay couples to still obtain their marriage license. Its a reasonable accommodation that allows all parties to get what they want. http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015/Bills/Senate/HTML/S2v0.html

 

[soberups]

“Doubting Genesis has had horrendous consequences,” he lamented. “It should come as no surprise that as generations are trained to disbelieve the Bible’s account of origins, they also increasingly doubt the rest of the Bible. That’s a part of the greater Satanic strategy that had its origin in the Garden of Eden.”

Creationist Ken Ham: Science has ‘contaminated’ kids into believing in evolution and LGBT rights

If we take the English translation King James version of the Bible as being the literal, unambiguous and final word of God, it would follow that the entire universe is less than 10,000 years old which is a violation of the most basic laws of physics in regards to the known speed of light and the distance of distant galaxies whose visible light has taken far longer than that to reach us. And that's before we even begin to talk about the dinosaurs that aren't mentioned in the bible but for whom there is an indisputable fossil record that predates mankind by millions of years.

One can still believe that God made the universe and all that exists within it, and that God made humankind "from the dust" and gave him free will and knowledge of good and evil....which is the underlying truth of the Book of Genesis....while acknowledging the scientific processes that God used to accomplish these miracles. All it takes is an understanding of the fact that the Bible that we read today is a collection of texts written over several hundred years by different authors and subsequently translated through multiple languages. A God that gave us the capacity for reason and scientific inquiry would be appalled if we abused that capacity by closing our minds to the truth and locked ourselves into a potentially inaccurate interpretation of a collection of documents.

 

[wkmac]

I like what NC has passed into law. Senate Bill 2 allows those magistrates not to perform any marriages if its against their religious convictions. This allows gay couples to still obtain their marriage license. Its a reasonable accommodation that allows all parties to get what they want. http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015/Bills/Senate/HTML/S2v0.html

This is a reasonable and workable alternative that seems to satisfy both sides of the equation.

Now if there are barriers and restrictions to alternatives, especially if it benefits those of religious faith who perform such, then the barriers much come down to allow alternatives to arise and solve the inconvenience. I also think if a lot of the special privileges granted to married couples were removed or some allowances made to grant the same to gay couples, I'm betting most gays would let marriage be a heterosexual institution and seems to me at that point that would protect/satisfy both sides of the argument.

 

[wkmac]

If we take the English translation King James version of the Bible as being the literal, unambiguous and final word of God, it would follow that the entire universe is less than 10,000 years old which is a violation of the most basic laws of physics in regards to the known speed of light and the distance of distant galaxies whose visible light has taken far longer than that to reach us. And that's before we even begin to talk about the dinosaurs that aren't mentioned in the bible but for whom there is an indisputable fossil record that predates mankind by millions of years.

One can still believe that God made the universe and all that exists within it, and that God made humankind "from the dust" and gave him free will and knowledge of good and evil....which is the underlying truth of the Book of Genesis....while acknowledging the scientific processes that God used to accomplish these miracles. All it takes is an understanding of the fact that the Bible that we read today is a collection of texts written over several hundred years by different authors and subsequently translated through multiple languages. A God that gave us the capacity for reason and scientific inquiry would be appalled if we abused that capacity by closing our minds to the truth and locked ourselves into a potentially inaccurate interpretation of a collection of documents.

That's why I can appreciate the deist and non literalist traditions who make room and open to any number of possibilities even though they may conclude a single god in some form started it all.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Now you are getting close of just who god is in the first place.

He created man in his image.

 

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

He created man in his image.

What about women?

 

[soberups]

He created man in his image.

I would be curious to find out how closely the modern English word "image" actually conveys the intended meaning of the ancient Hebrew or Greek word that was used in the original manuscript. The phrase "His image", if taken literally, would indicate that God has male genitalia. I would tend to think that a God that made this universe and all things in it would transcend such earthly details, and that the phrase has more to do with the fact that (a) the English language simply lacks a gender-neutral pronoun and (b) women have been completely excluded from any sort of leadership or decision making in the Christian church ever since its inception. The Bible is a book written by men and for men.

 

[Jones]

If we take the English translation King James version of the Bible as being the literal, unambiguous and final word of God, it would follow that the entire universe is less than 10,000 years old which is a violation of the most basic laws of physics in regards to the known speed of light and the distance of distant galaxies whose visible light has taken far longer than that to reach us. And that's before we even begin to talk about the dinosaurs that aren't mentioned in the bible but for whom there is an indisputable fossil record that predates mankind by millions of years.

One can still believe that God made the universe and all that exists within it, and that God made humankind "from the dust" and gave him free will and knowledge of good and evil....which is the underlying truth of the Book of Genesis....while acknowledging the scientific processes that God used to accomplish these miracles. All it takes is an understanding of the fact that the Bible that we read today is a collection of texts written over several hundred years by different authors and subsequently translated through multiple languages. A God that gave us the capacity for reason and scientific inquiry would be appalled if we abused that capacity by closing our minds to the truth and locked ourselves into a potentially inaccurate interpretation of a collection of documents.

Ken Hamm is essentially saying that if you don't believe all of it, why should you believe any of it? I don't agree with Hamm on much but I do agree with him about that. It's pretty obvious that a majority of the world's population feels compelled to believe in some sort of supernatural narrative so rather than cherry picking just the parts you like from an existing narrative that doesn't fully reflect your values why not just come up with your own belief system that really does reflect your values? It's how all these religions got started in the first place anyway.

 

[BrownArmy]

He created man in his image.

That disappoints me.

Man is a great machine - look at everyone trying to build a walking robot. So far we're failing, with unintentionally funny results.

If God made us in his image, are you saying we look like him (physical image), or are you saying our minds are patterned in 'his' image?

Either option is disappointing - if we look just like God, then God is just a narcissist doll-maker, churning out inferior copies.

If God patterned us via Gods' mental 'image', then he's as crazy as we are.

My impression of God has always been that God is the sound of the vibration of the Universe, and that God is SUPER GROOVY.

There doesn't seem to be a reason for God to pattern us on anything.

If he made us in 'his' image, isn't 'he' concerned that would supplant him?




All in jest, all in jest.

(Not the part about God being SUPER-GROOVY, that's real.)

 

[MAKAVELI]

We have mapped the entire human genome and no "gay" gene has been discovered. That sorta blows your entire "overwhelming evidence" out of the water now doesn't it? Its purported that close to 90% of all homeless teenagers in this country are gay, and what else is prevalent in the homeless community? Mental illness, which coincides to my original point. Finally, your heterosexual vs. homosexual household statistics don't hold water either given the huge disparity in numbers between both groups. It doesn't mean homosexuals are more grounded in anything as they make up less than 5% of the entire population.



Its called tough love. I would argue you lack true compassion by trying to tell them they are normal as this doesn't begin to address their real issues.




I am going to again remind you that you are trying to drag this into a spiritual/bible debate. I have pointed out logical arguments as to why homosexuals are simply a group of people with a mental illness, but since you asked here goes. Notice in the word "Christian" it begins with the word Christ. Now at what point of the bible does the word Christ appear? That would be the New Testament. You have taken my choice of words to mean that there was Christianity before the New Testament, when in fact there was not. That was simply my point.

There is no cancer gene, but science has proven that many forms of cancer are indeed genetic and hereditary.

 

[Jones]

There is no cancer gene, but science has proven that many forms of cancer are indeed genetic and hereditary.

You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

 

[MAKAVELI]

You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

Maybe he suffers from the ignoramus gene mutation.

 

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

Maybe he suffers from the ignoramus gene mutation.

I'd say history has proven faith usually wins out over reason.

 

[soberups]

I'd say history has proven faith usually wins out over reason.

A person can have both. All that is required is a little humility and an open mind.

 

[10 point]

I'd say history has proven faith usually wins out over reason.

But many times faith was all some great men/leaders had left. Take Washington's attack on Trenton.

Here's the deal maker/breaker...

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man (mankind INCLUDING WOMEN... for the inquiring minds) comes to the Father (finds eternal life) except through me."

Either you believe that statement or not. Either He's who He says He is or He's a liar.

It's pretty straight forward.
Make your decision.

 

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

But many times faith was all some great men/leaders had left. Take Washington's attack on Trenton.

Here's the deal maker/breaker...

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man (mankind INCLUDING WOMEN... for the inquiring minds) comes to the Father (finds eternal life) except through me."

Either you believe that statement or not. Either He's who He says He is or He's a liar.

It's pretty straight forward.
Make your decision.

It's anything but straightforward.
If you believe the bible is the word of god, it's simple.
If you look at the facts, it's not.

 

[10 point]

It's anything but straightforward.
If you believe the bible is the word of god, it's simple.
If you look at the facts, it's not.

I'm talking about what Jesus claimed time and time again.

Do you believe that His death and resurrection paid once and for all the price to nullify condemnation of a believer's soul to the place called Hell that Jesus talked about?

That's the question.
It's not about church history or the dead sea scrolls or when dinosaurs roamed in Detroit Michigan.

That's pretty easily understood.

Yes or no.

 

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

I'm talking about what Jesus claimed time and time again.

Do you believe that His death and resurrection paid once and for all the price to nullify condemnation of a believer's soul to the place called Hell that Jesus talked about?

That's the question.
It's not about church history or the dead sea scrolls or when dinosaurs roamed in Detroit Michigan.

That's pretty easily understood.

Yes or no.

I believe you have no idea "what Jesus claimed", or "talked about".
You have a book written by men and you believe it's the word of god.
People like to say faith is hard, I'm just saying I believe it's the easy way out.