KOLOB Celebrates Romney Primary Victories

[bbsam]

But you just claimed he wasn't an expert. All of this just enforces my claim that you failed at your attempt of a straw man argument. Nothing in your claims or your claims of the things that this Frank guy has said refutes anything that I posted nor do they even attempt to refute anything that I had posted. You reached "the other side" type of epic failure on this one.

It really must really bug the extreme leftists when I said that Mormonism is no more or less of a cult than Islam. What is difficult to understand is that if my statement were incorrect why did nobody come with some proof? If all you guys really have is a statement by this Frank guy that he didn't know if Mormons were Christian or Cult, while entertaining and irrelevant, does nothing to disprove what I said.

But you yourself have claimed that you are apathetic to religious things and yet you want to claim as some kind of "expert" that Mormons are "no more a cult than...". How do you know? What makes you an "expert"? I didn't think I was arguing about Mormons being a cult or not. I thought I was refuting (again for the fourth time) that this is not a left-wing attack on Mormons as you claimed. That is the point I took issue with. What is hard for you to understand about that? You have as much explaining to do to the evangelical right in this country as you do to MFE on what Mormons are and what they are not...that is if you are "expert" enough to explain religious sects and cults to the likes of Franklin Graham. Why is he important? Because millions of christian evangelicals listen to him and derive their opinions on candidates and others based on what he says so I guess that would make him a defacto expert.

 

[bbsam]

You agreed with MFE that AV8 had nothing..... granted, I've mixed up MFE and BBsam again......It's actually very easy to do because you both seem to have gotten your training from the same place. MFE is just a bit more spiteful and toxic. BBsam has shown some humanity from time to time.

Actually, AV8 agreed as well when he said that he is apathetic to religious things. Nothing personal, but how can one be apathetic to something and yet have vast knowledge of it?

 

[bbsam]

And "having nothing" is far different than claiming that someone "is nothing".

 

[bbsam]

Wow that's shocking. After all of that this Frank guy said Mormons believe in Jesus Christ.

So do Jews and Muslims, but that does not make them Christians.

 

[moreluck]

And "having nothing" is far different than claiming that someone "is nothing".

Thus, the humanity!

 

[bbsam]

Thus, the humanity!

I'll take that as kudos and thank-you. I like you more than I wish sometimes too.

 

[av8torntn]

But you yourself have claimed that you are apathetic to religious things and yet you want to claim as some kind of "expert" that Mormons are "no more a cult than...". How do you know? What makes you an "expert"? I didn't think I was arguing about Mormons being a cult or not. I thought I was refuting (again for the fourth time) that this is not a left-wing attack on Mormons as you claimed. That is the point I took issue with. What is hard for you to understand about that? You have as much explaining to do to the evangelical right in this country as you do to MFE on what Mormons are and what they are not...that is if you are "expert" enough to explain religious sects and cults to the likes of Franklin Graham. Why is he important? Because millions of christian evangelicals listen to him and derive their opinions on candidates and others based on what he says so I guess that would make him a defacto expert.

I am no expert but I do know the definition of a cult. I am no expert but I do know the definition of Christian. Your Frank guy in the video posted(if that is the same Frank guy you were talking about as he didn't say anything close to what you claimed) claimed that he believed that Mormons believed in Jesus Christ. I'm guessing that you have a different definition of Christian? I suppose that is why it is so hard for me to understand your position and why your Frank guy has anything to do with anything. Maybe you hang on his every word? I'm not really sure what the deal is there. Possibly a relative of yours? You brought him up because he leads a church that is in competition with the Mormons for members maybe? He really carries no weight with me and you seem to claim that he carries no weight with you but at the same time you hang on his every spoken word. I can almost guarantee that if Romney is the Republican nominee he will support Romney.

MrsFredex is an admitted extreme leftist and he was attacking Mormonism even going as far as making up stories about them and falsely claiming accepted practices. So, I know you move slowly, but that is an extreme leftist attack on Mormonism and really has nothing to do with your Frank guy agreeing that Mormons believe in Jesus Christ.

Ok you make a post claiming Frank is no expert on Mormonism and then you make a post claiming he is some type of expert on Mormonism. I think I've got it.

 

[av8torntn]

So do Jews and Muslims, but that does not make them Christians.

OK what's your definition of Christian?

This is the common definition and one that I use. I would think that the Church of Jesus Christ would qualify with this definition.

Christian

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

 

[bbsam]

OK what's your definition of Christian?

This is the common definition and one that I use. I would think that the Church of Jesus Christ would qualify with this definition.

Christian

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

I believe that many Jews believe that Jesus was a gifted rabbi and muslims view him as a prophet. Mormons believe in Jesus as the Christ but have added books other than the Bible that they consider holy in direct contradiction to the canonization of scripture put forth by the Christian faith.

 

[av8torntn]

I believe that many Jews believe that Jesus was a gifted rabbi and muslims view him as a prophet. Mormons believe in Jesus as the Christ but have added books other than the Bible that the consider holy in direct contradiction to the canonization of scripture put forth by the Christian faith.

So what is your definition of Christian? I posted the commonly used definition and it would lead me to believe that Mormons are clearly Christian as they claim.

From the official website of the Mormon church.

"Heavenly Father chose His Son, Jesus Christ, in our pre-earth life and sent Him to earth to be our Savior.
Learn more about why we need a Savior on mormon.org

If we believe in Jesus Christ, follow His teachings, and repent when we commit sins, His Atonement, or sacrifice, can wash us clean of our sins and make us worthy to return to God’s presence. Christ’s sacrifice and Resurrection also allow us to overcome physical death. Every one of us will be resurrected just like Christ was and live forever in perfected bodies after we leave this life."

Link

Sure seems to fit the definition of Christian to me.

 

[av8torntn]

They sure seem to think they are Christian also. I'd think they are more of an expert on their beliefs than your Frank guys is.

Gordon B. Hinckley, prior President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (1995-2008), said:
“We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. We, of course, accept Jesus Christ as our Leader, our King, our Savior...the dominant figure in the history of the world, the only perfect Man who ever walked the earth, the living Son of the living God. He is our Savior and our Redeemer through whose atoning sacrifice has come the opportunity of eternal life. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pray and worship in the name of Jesus Christ. He is the center of our faith and the head of our Church. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ and witnesses of His divinity, His life, and His Atonement.”

 

[wkmac]

I believe that many Jews believe that Jesus was a gifted rabbi and muslims view him as a prophet. Mormons believe in Jesus as the Christ but have added books other than the Bible that the consider holy in direct contradiction to the canonization of scripture put forth by the Christian faith.

Had the vote gone different at Nicea, what we call "the cannon of scripture" and the general beliefs about even Jesus himself might be a bit different to say the least.

I always found it interesting that the writings of Paul came about decades before the gospels. Hmmmmm!

 

[wkmac]

And early christianity in many respects was considered a cult when compared to the large Roman-Greco world. Even the Essenes were considered a cult in Judean society and yet it's influence on our christianity today could be seen as most important. Cults seem to be so only at a certain stage based on the number of followers but when a certain threshold is crossed in number of followers, it then becomes a more widely accepted dogma and then as cannon at some point. I'm sure Martin Luther when he nailed those thesis to the door probably was considered a cultist, heretic is another name, but yet today he's seen by so many as hero and a great man of god.

Cult is nothing more than a numbers game IMO.

 

[Jones]

It's all storytime, the mormons are just late to the party so they get heat for making up their own twists.

 

[bbsam]

It's all storytime, the mormons are just late to the party so they get heat for making up their own twists.

Well, it's our story time, we get to select the books!

 

[wkmac]

It's all storytime, the mormons are just late to the party so they get heat for making up their own twists.

Nice segment from the film, "The God Who Wasn't There". I posted a link sometime ago to this film and wasn't received to well so I hope you fare better.

 

[bbsam]

Had the vote gone different at Nicea, what we call "the cannon of scripture" and the general beliefs about even Jesus himself might be a bit different to say the least.

I always found it interesting that the writings of Paul came about decades before the gospels. Hmmmmm!

Careful. Don't discount the oral traditions of history.

 

[Jones]

Well, it's our story time, we get to select the books!

That ship has long since sailed, but you make a good point. I've always wondered why people join a particular religion and then set out modifying it to meet their own comfort level. Just go start your own...

 

[bbsam]

That ship has long since sailed, but you make a good point. I've always wondered why people join a particular religion and then set out modifying it to meet their own comfort level. Just go start your own...

I'm only kidding about that. As I've posted before, the Southpark guys are cool with Mormons, calling them a "distinctly American religion", and that's all the endorsment I need for them.

 

[Jones]

I'm only kidding about that. As I've posted before, the Southpark guys are cool with Mormons, calling them a "distinctly American religion", and that's all the endorsment I need for them.

I've made peace with the fact that the US has not advanced to the point where we can elect a president who doesn't have some form of imaginary friend. As long as he/she doesn't eat babies on Sunday I can live with it.