Management in Browns

[area43]

I would like to talk a little more about UPS going public. Later I will tell you what a sup told me. First, I have some questions? Why didn't Jim Casey ever consider the idea in his reign ? If Jim was still living during the public offering would he have been for it ? If Jim wasn't for it, would he be considered out of touch or just plan looney by his peers and politely be ignored ? After all UPS was Jim's Pride and Joy. His baby. Funny, UPS has been around for a 100 years and just 7 years ago the acting CEO decided to go public. Hmmmm, it raises alot of questions. Perphaps selfish intentions by himself and others. Just something to think about.

Just a quick side note. Jim Casey, the great founder of UPS and I do sincerely mean that. One in a million. Jim new the meaning of labor. He was not out of touch, for he himself did alot of the grunt work in the early years of starting his company. Jim had a brother. Jim had his brother start out in delivery before making him a manager. Jim didn't just give things to people. He made them earn it, so that they would have more of a appreciation for it.

Ok this is what the sup said for all its worth. LOL UPS like all companies gives out their quarterly earnings. Now what happens next is mainly done by the upper mgt on up. Maybe some of the cms. Reason being is that you need alot of UPS stock to do it. Lets say the stock is at $75 a share at the beginning of the quarter. UPS brass, will than tighten the finacial infastructure belt spending, example being no or very little pkg cars,planes, feeder trucks etc,etc being bought, no ft drivers being hired, sups doing the hourly work(remember pension, H & W benefits), and they even go as far as how many text messages can be sent in the diads, Wow. True folks. We got a mess a week ago not to send our eta and stops over the diad(cost saving measure). We have to call it in. Hmmmm, I guess they want us to call it in using OUR cell phones. The list goes on and on as to what they will cut back on.

Now, at the end of the quarter the earnings should go up, due to the deep cut backs. Thus the stock should and will go up. Lets say from $75 to $79. They sell the stock. If you have a stock pile of stock that could be a nice chunk of change. Folks, it dosen't stop here. It keeps going. The next up coming quarter they do the opposite. Spend, spend and spend(infastructure,China expansion) to lower the earnings. At the end of the quarter the stock could go from $79 to lets say $74 due to lower earnings. Than the cycle starts all over again. They buy buy buy. Tighten the belt. Earnings rise. Stock goes up Wait for the quarter to end and sell sell sell. What would Jim Casey say about that? Incredible. I believe Jim had strong ethics. The stock market. Is it just another form of gambling. Perphaps. I know all my 401k monies is tied up in it. For those of us who believe in the Bible. Gambling is a sin. I guess if its wrong. Im guilty. Just something to think about. Debatable. area 43 out.

 

[tieguy]

You're like a broken record.

Yea I know but you know there is some truth to it. You guys love the contract when it comes to filing grievances but you hate it when the contract only allows 5 personal holidays in one day and you are the sixth guy in seniority order to apply.

 

[tieguy]

Sounds like you have a staffing issue. Allowing supervisors to work only hides the problem.

Cop out.

 

[tieguy]

You FILE, FILE, FILE a greivance every time a sup works! No where in the contract does it make an exception for a sup to work, it says sups will not work! File!

actually it says they can work after you exhaust all means.

 

[brownrodster]

When I was new I got laid off a lot.

I'd rather have a sup drive every once in a while than have me become a driver only to work 1 day a week for 3 months. friend that. I'm all for supervisors doing that work so I dont' have to deal with perpetual lay off. Get new drivers when you can at least put them on road 2-3 days per week.

 

[705red]

I don't have a problem with sups delivering a few air stops, bulk stops, or even excess stops once in a while as long as it's not every day and (***----->ONLY<-----***) if all other qualified hourly options have been used and their still isn't enough people. The problem though is that it's happening at least several times each week, if not every day, and to me that means they need to hire more drivers. The contract says that sups are only allowed to deliver packages so that they'll make service but that shouldn't be happening but maybe once in a blue moon but here it's happening almost every day. So, based on that and the fact that many of us are still part-time, yet, working full-time hours, I'd say that management is abusing that article.

Big, screw that, give me that extra stop or bulk and then pay me double time for going over 9.5. If we allow them to deliver(work) here and there we are costinf our selves another potential friend-time job. If enough drivers file 9.5 they eventuallt will have to put in all the routes or create a new route and that means hiring new drivers and giving our p-time work force another oppurtunity to go friend-time. If i see a sup working i will ask him why and then i will file, file file!

 

[govols019]

Yea I know but you know there is some truth to it. You guys love the contract when it comes to filing grievances but you hate it when the contract only allows 5 personal holidays in one day and you are the sixth guy in seniority order to apply.

Not true at all. If I'm the one that can't get a day off or an 8-hr day because someone with more seniority already has it I'm cool with that. That's the way it works. I knew the rules when I started.

 

[govols019]

Cop out.

How do you figure that? If supervisors are working on a consistent basis then there is a staffing issue. Simple as that.

If a supervisor has to work once in a blue moon then that is somewhat understandable.

 

[tieguy]

Not true at all. If I'm the one that can't get a day off or an 8-hr day because someone with more seniority already has it I'm cool with that. That's the way it works. I knew the rules when I started.

you're the exception then.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big, screw that, give me that extra stop or bulk and then pay me double time for going over 9.5. If we allow them to deliver(work) here and there we are costinf our selves another potential friend-time job. If enough drivers file 9.5 they eventuallt will have to put in all the routes or create a new route and that means hiring new drivers and giving our p-time work force another oppurtunity to go friend-time. If i see a sup working i will ask him why and then i will file, file file!

Over 9.5 grievences have yet to result in more full-time jobs here. Filing to end supervisors working and hoping it creates more full-time jobs sounds good but in reality it just isn't working. Kind of like PAS/EDD. LOL!

 

[dudebro]

You FILE, FILE, FILE a greivance every time a sup works! No where in the contract does it make an exception for a sup to work, it says sups will not work! File File File!

This is precisely what high seniority hourlies attempt to tell new supervisors to confuse them. They generally hope the supervisor hasn't read the contract (and I suggest a supervisor should read it as often as the stewards do). Unless there's a supplement in 705red's area that's different than where I am, there IS a provision in the contract for management working. The bar it sets is pretty high, you have to be able to show that no hourly within 1 hour of the building was available to perform the job, but it's there.

The steward I described in an earlier post said exactly those words above, then filed, then the union lost the grievance at arbitration. Moreover, he tried to instruct ME to quit working. I told him I would have to respectfully decline his request, and for 10 seconds he actually didn't know what to say. Apparently the supervisors in that building did whatever he said...

Anyhow, this is the type of attitude that prevents labor and management from working together better. I see the multiple posts about how certain individuals in management act inappropriately, and I deplore it. But there's quite a bit of unnecessary flak going the other way and let's not pretend there isn't.

 

[area43]

Over 9.5 grievences have yet to result in more full-time jobs here. Filing to end supervisors working and hoping it creates more full-time jobs sounds good but in reality it just isn't working. Kind of like PAS/EDD. LOL!

Explain in more detail. Why won't it work? Is your whole paragraph about your center only? Our are you speaking "Nationally" about the problem?

 

[area43]

When I was new I got laid off a lot.

I'd rather have a sup drive every once in a while than have me become a driver only to work 1 day a week for 3 months. friend that. I'm all for supervisors doing that work so I dont' have to deal with perpetual lay off. Get new drivers when you can at least put them on road 2-3 days per week.

Everyone has to pay their dues. In our center if a driver is laid off he works a split shift. He will work the first four hours in the am then come back and work the second four hours in the pm. Thus giving him his eight hours. Yes, it might be a inconvience but thats how it works if your at the bottom. I will not go into the crap I had to go thru when I started working at UPS. A real freakin roller coaster. Also, another poster stated that they had a tuff time keeping part timers. This would help in the pt department. As you can see with the am/ pm work the driver actually never gets laid off. Just The type of work changes from driving to loading.

 

[DS]

Anyhow, this is the type of attitude that prevents labor and management from working together better. I see the multiple posts about how certain individuals in management act inappropriately, and I deplore it. But there's quite a bit of unnecessary flak going the other way and let's not pretend there isn't.

I agree wholeheartedly dudebro, but the way the supervisory system is set up at ups,IMO it often leads to management overstepping the rules
by making life unbearable for particular drivers that voice an opinion.
This intimidation often results in producing a lot of the flak you refer to.
The turnover for center manager's is often related to certain cases where a terminated driver gets his job back,with or without pay and the manager
responsible is simply moved or promoted.A strong ups code of ethics for management is non existent at this level,and personal gain tends to override thier judgment,and allows them the leeway to make selfish decisions.

 

[area43]

This is precisely what high seniority hourlies attempt to tell new supervisors to confuse them. They generally hope the supervisor hasn't read the contract (and I suggest a supervisor should read it as often as the stewards do). Unless there's a supplement in 705red's area that's different than where I am, there IS a provision in the contract for management working. The bar it sets is pretty high, you have to be able to show that no hourly within 1 hour of the building was available to perform the job, but it's there.

The steward I described in an earlier post said exactly those words above, then filed, then the union lost the grievance at arbitration. Moreover, he tried to instruct ME to quit working. I told him I would have to respectfully decline his request, and for 10 seconds he actually didn't know what to say. Apparently the supervisors in that building did whatever he said...

Anyhow, this is the type of attitude that prevents labor and management from working together better. I see the multiple posts about how certain individuals in management act inappropriately, and I deplore it. But there's quite a bit of unnecessary flak going the other way and let's not pretend there isn't.

I must tell you this from January 1 to June 1 there is what is called the sweating out period. UPS upper mgt knows this. Let me explain. Few or some drivers are on vacations during this time. Temps cannot be used. If there is a surge in volume. The center manager and sups are screwed. They must run the etra volume themselves in order to try and maintain the 9/5. That is why extra drivers are needed to be hired and put in the am/pm mode. Its premediated "extreme cause" by upper mgt. Upper mgt knows they just have to make it intill June 1 and that is when they can breath deep again. Their running operations to the man. Going public has killed us. Also, in our center we used to have air drivers. No more. The Air drivers can't get to in time are run by the sups. UPS fights like crazy to keep from hiring full time drivers. Remember, $273.60 a week for pension and $222.10 for H & W on top of what I make and their worried about too many text messages being sent over the Diad.

 

[upsgrunt]

I must tell you this from January 1 to June 1 there is what is called the sweating out period. UPS upper mgt knows this. Let me explain. Few or some drivers are on vacations during this time. Temps cannot be used. If there is a surge in volume. The center manager and sups are screwed. They must run the etra volume themselves in order to try and maintain the 9/5. That is why extra drivers are needed to be hired and put in the am/pm mode. Its premediated "extreme cause" by upper mgt. Upper mgt knows they just have to make it intill June 1 and that is when they can breath deep again. Their running operations to the man. Going public has killed us. Also, in our center we used to have air drivers. No more. The Air drivers can't get to in time are run by the sups. UPS fights like crazy to keep from hiring full time drivers. Remember, $273.60 a week for pension and $222.10 for H & W on top of what I make and their worried about too many text messages being sent over the Diad.

I agree! You'd swear this company wasn't making a dime, yet they don't bad an eye on executive suites at sporting events, relocating management frequently, having 2 drivers delivering on the same street at the same time, and then complaining because stylus's cost .79 a piece.

 

[mnmoe]

"I wouldn't file on these supes for working. They're servicing the customer..."

WHAT???!!!!!!!!! They are doing Teamster work! Where is your shop steward? You have to file on it. If the sups are doing our work, THEN THEY SHOULD HIRE MORE TEAMSTERS!

If the sups can do this work, THEN WE DON'T NEED THEM AS SUPS!

In uor center if there is to much work and management has to hit the streets they ask all the drivers in building if they want the work and if they the drivers dont then they pull the route

 

[mnmoe]

In our center if there is to much work and management has to hit the streets they ask all the drivers in building if they want the work and if they the drivers dont then they management pull the route

 

[tieguy]

I agree wholeheartedly dudebro, but the way the supervisory system is set up at ups,IMO it often leads to management overstepping the rules
by making life unbearable for particular drivers that voice an opinion.
This intimidation often results in producing a lot of the flak you refer to.

Its not always retaliation.
Supervisors that don't follow the rules of the contract probably don't follow all rules that apply to doing their job like supervising their people. So a grievance may result in pissing the sup off where he actually starts doing his job and holding his people accountable for the job they do. His people then view this as the sup retaliating. His drivers want to dictate the set of rules the sup will follow. They want to hold him accountable to the contract but they don't want him to hold them accountable for the job they do.

If a driver files on a sup running a route and the sup then splits the route out and adds work to the drivers did he retaliate or did he abide by the contract?

 

[govols019]

He went by the contract. When that extra work causes me to file a 9.5 grievance then I too am following the contract.