Maybe now is the right time to organize

[vantexan]

You seem to miss @floridays point. His contention (I agree) is you have to find the underbelly, the vulnerable point to attack, if you expect any chance of success.
You don’t ask hub workers to take the body blows for you, but they are the essential first strike to force FedEx to negotiate.
Hub employees would have to know that couriers and other hourlies have their backs. This is the Achilles heel of this plan.

And the overarching problem of it all is you can't just do what you want to get a union. Spreading the word that we're all calling in sick tomorrow won't get you a union contract. Any efforts to create a union from such measures wouldn't be recognized by whatever regulatory body that monitors these things. Legitimate efforts just be made. Get 50% nationwide of a craft to sign union cards to force a vote. And remember if a vote is passed and a national union for FedEx couriers is created FedEx will immediately take all benefits off the table and they will have to be negotiated in a contract. And FedEx will make sure every courier knows that before casting their vote. And a lot more. I'm not saying FedEx doesn't deserve a union. They often act in bad faith. But getting a union and then getting what you want from having a union is often a lot different from expectations.

 

[59 Dano]

And there you have it, in one sentence.
The philosophy of upper management (not @59 Dano he'll never sniff that rarefied air).
It is the same throughout, it does not matter which operating company.

Dude- it's basic economics and obvious to anyone, even you.

 

[59 Dano]

And the overarching problem of it all is you can't just do what you want to get a union. Spreading the word that we're all calling in sick tomorrow won't get you a union contract. Any efforts to create a union from such measures wouldn't be recognized by whatever regulatory body that monitors these things. Legitimate efforts just be made. Get 50% nationwide of a craft to sign union cards to force a vote. And remember if a vote is passed and a national union for FedEx couriers is created FedEx will immediately take all benefits off the table and they will have to be negotiated in a contract. And FedEx will make sure every courier knows that before casting their vote. And a lot more. I'm not saying FedEx doesn't deserve a union. They often act in bad faith. But getting a union and then getting what you want from having a union is often a lot different from expectations.

The easiest way to quell any Express employees' desire for a union is to tell them that the contract and everything related to it will be followed to the letter with no exceptions.

 

[Cactus]

It's called campaign contributions and will never be illegal because it directly benefits those who make the laws.

Or in other cases, disguised as campaign contributions. Fred has paid off many a politician who aren’t even running for re-election.

 

[falcon back]

Or in other cases, disguised as campaign contributions. Fred has paid off many a politician who aren’t even running for re-election.

You know this how?

 

[floridays]

Dude- it's basic economics and obvious to anyone, even you.

Dude, I understand economics better than you.
That is the precise reason 2 hours of no show at hubs and ramps would get a response.

 

[floridays]

The easiest way to quell any Express employees' desire for a union is to tell them that the contract and everything related to it will be followed to the letter with no exceptions.

Who do you think you are scaring.
That is the precise reason for a contract.
Are you trying to get these rubes to think the pilots are in fear of Fedex upholding the contract?

You're a clown.

 

[floridays]

When I say you're I mean in a generic sense. I should've been clearer.

You're good, generically and specifically.

 

[floridays]

And the overarching problem of it all is you can't just do what you want to get a union. Spreading the word that we're all calling in sick tomorrow won't get you a union contract. Any efforts to create a union from such measures wouldn't be recognized by whatever regulatory body that monitors these things. Legitimate efforts just be made. Get 50% nationwide of a craft to sign union cards to force a vote. And remember if a vote is passed and a national union for FedEx couriers is created FedEx will immediately take all benefits off the table and they will have to be negotiated in a contract. And FedEx will make sure every courier knows that before casting their vote. And a lot more. I'm not saying FedEx doesn't deserve a union. They often act in bad faith. But getting a union and then getting what you want from having a union is often a lot different from expectations.

Van, when you get a party to the table you do not relinquish what you already have, what you have was not sufficient, that is the precise reason you are at the table. It's clear you have never negotiated a deal.

Herding cats, impossible, even dead ones or ones that have strayed.
The lack of understanding pertaining to this type of matter perplexes me.

Can you understand this?
I'm not being mean, can you understand this?

 

[sandwich]

Not a chance that fedex ground drivers can organize, they aren't employees of fedex corp. in any way. It was designed for that purpose.

Ok I read most of this thread. And while what your saying is probable and Fedex ground drivers can’t unionize is kind of true.

much like skilled labor Unions. Plumbers, pipe fitters etc....

this form of unionizing can absolutely be done. But it would take entire buildings or regions to unionize at once for it to happen.

fedex or the contractors couldn’t do anything about it.

the problem is lack of skill in this job add more and more tech simplifying the job to the point where the only skill is enduring 7 day work weeks. Makes unionizing not probable but it’s not impossible.

 

[Cactus]

You know this how?

I’d tell you but you would just argue about it. Besides, you’ve ignored many questions from a lot of people here on this forum.

 

[falcon back]

I’d tell you but you would just argue about it. Besides, you’ve ignored many questions from a lot of people here on this forum.

So basically you have no facts. Just making statements with nothing to back it up.

 

[vantexan]

Van, when you get a party to the table you do not relinquish what you already have, what you have was not sufficient, that is the precise reason you are at the table. It's clear you have never negotiated a deal.

Herding cats, impossible, even dead ones or ones that have strayed.
The lack of understanding pertaining to this type of matter perplexes me.

Can you understand this?
I'm not being mean, can you understand this?

I see what you're saying but I stand by my statement that unless a union is created using RLA rules employees are going to fail using tactics designed to intimidate FedEx into what they want. Sick outs and slow downs will not get employees the protections a union contract will afford.

 

[Cactus]

So basically you have no facts. Just making statements with nothing to back it up.

And you're in duh-nile.

Now just go ahead and tell us about your wife's winning scratch off lottery ticket.

 

[bacha29]

Then why didn't it happen in 2010 when the Dems controlled the government? Oh, right, they sold us out.

In 2010 the Bush Recession was still going strong and the recovering economy was fragile. There was some legislation that was designed to restrict the ability of companies to scare people away from voting to go union but I don't think it ever made it to the floor . Today unions make their money off of public sector employees in the aftermath of court rulings granting public employees collective bargaining rights. It was then simply a case of a group of public employees deciding on which union they wanted to join.

Changing the plight of box grunts at Fedex overall would first require a hard and sustained shift to the political left. A couple of years as in one term of congress won't get anything done. For Express to go union it would first require a complete dismantling of the RLA which would be tied up in the courts for probably at least a decade and any shift back to the right would likely end up in it being repealed by congress.

The only effective measure that could change the plight of Ground truck freight grunts would be another peak season debacle like last year only much worse. Multiple public relations embarrassments and total collapse of numerous hub operations . Not enough people willing to accept the terms of employment.

At the same time I don't think Ground is going to have much trouble this year. Too many laid off bar, bistro and beauty shop employees force to take the employment as appalling as it is to tide them over and holiday spending not as good as in the past couple of years.

 

[vantexan]

In 2010 the Bush Recession was still going strong and the recovering economy was fragile. There was some legislation that was designed to restrict the ability of companies to scare people away from voting to go union but I don't think it ever made it to the floor . Today unions make their money off of public sector employees in the aftermath of court rulings granting public employees collective bargaining rights. It was then simply a case of a group of public employees deciding on which union they wanted to join.

Changing the plight of box grunts at Fedex overall would first require a hard and sustained shift to the political left. A couple of years as in one term of congress won't get anything done. For Express to go union it would first require a complete dismantling of the RLA which would be tied up in the courts for probably at least a decade and any shift back to the right would likely end up in it being repealed by congress.

The only effective measure that could change the plight of Ground truck freight grunts would be another peak season debacle like last year only much worse. Multiple public relations embarrassments and total collapse of numerous hub operations . Not enough people willing to accept the terms of employment.

At the same time I don't think Ground is going to have much trouble this year. Too many laid off bar, bistro and beauty shop employees force to take the employment as appalling as it is to tide them over and holiday spending not as good as in the past couple of years.

There was an attachment to the FAA bill in 2010 called the "Express Employees Relief Act" that if passed would have put FedEx Express under the NLRA. Considerable things can be done if 1)A political party controls Congress and the presidency and 2)Fred S doesn't give millions to Democrat Congressmen.

 

[bacha29]

There was an attachment to the FAA bill in 2010 called the "Express Employees Relief Act" that if passed would have put FedEx Express under the NLRA. Considerable things can be done if 1)A political party controls Congress and the presidency and 2)Fred S doesn't give millions to Democrat Congressmen.

The Republicans get their share of Fat Freddy's chum,either directly or through a Super Pac. Instead of blaming the failure to get landmark labor law legislation through Congress on the Dems you should be focused on what your beloved GOP didn't do to get it passed. They all had a vote too. The votes against the bill were not all Democrat.

 

[dmac1]

How independent are they? Do they set their own rates? I have a feeling that are not independent at all and it's a way to not pay taxes.

The union only has to organize a few drivers at a time under the contractor system. Each contractor has a workforce that could be a target. If it ever went to court, fedex might end up being considered as a co-employer. That MIGHT be enough to make fedex quit claiming that contractors are in a separate business, which would allow each ground terminal to organize. Fedex ONLY uses the 'contractor model' to make it much harder to fight them on ANY front. If they are challenged again and lose again under one 'contract.' they will settle, and change the contract a little, and any new fight would need to start over.

I am sure Fred S had some kind of traumatic experience with someone in a union at some point, and his irrational hatred is the result.

 

[Fred's Myth]

The union only has to organize a few drivers at a time under the contractor system. Each contractor has a workforce that could be a target. If it ever went to court, fedex might end up being considered as a co-employer. That MIGHT be enough to make fedex quit claiming that contractors are in a separate business, which would allow each ground terminal to organize. Fedex ONLY uses the 'contractor model' to make it much harder to fight them on ANY front. If they are challenged again and lose again under one 'contract.' they will settle, and change the contract a little, and any new fight would need to start over.

I am sure Fred S had some kind of traumatic experience with someone in a union at some point, and his irrational hatred is the result.

You are clueless if you believe FedEx will stand by and watch contractor after contractor have their employees organize. As soon as a contractor has a union organize they would find their contract suddenly expire.

Clarity achieved yet?

 

[Method Mensch]

You lack understanding.
The business model, drivers, working for independent contractors makes it a non starter. There is no chance as the business model stands.

If all the delivery people that drive the routes walked out, FDX would be forced to come to the bargaining table. I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen, though.