Mediator ends talks

[705red]

The problem is if they made their demands public they would get no support from the majority of the public. Their idea of a fair contract is to keep everything they have plus whatever else they want - anything short of that and UPS is not "giving us a fair contract".

I could go on and on, they have a pretty good deal right now - even without a raise for 5 years. As far as outsourcing jobs to china - this work was never part of 2727. I am not sure you can technically outsource someone's job if it was never theirs to begin with.

Working without a contract for 5 years is not good. The reason contracts get negotiated every few years is to change language that either was not addressed in previous contracts, or really had no impact on them during the last talks. Changes in working conditions, job duties etc.

We as full timers at ups, 22.3's,porters, full time inside, package car, feeder, crap even topped out air drivers are the highest paid in our industry. What is you point on the mechanics being the highest paid?

At the end of our current contracts ups drivers will be making close to $10 more an hour than our freight brothers. I remember when they made more than us just a few contracts ago. This company is profitable, because of all the hard work done by each and every employee. Every employee should be rewarded and not settling this contract for over five years now is a slap in the face for these mechanics.

Just imagine if you have gone on making what you had made 5 years ago, no yearly increases, bonuses, etc. You would not be happy! Just look at how many sups on here are pissed because their raises are frozen this year. How pissed will they be 5 years from now without a raise?

Let them vent! Thats why we are here!

 

[tellitstraight]

To some extent I agree with what you are saying RED - 5 years is a long time to be without a contract for both the company and the union. The problem is that the expectations of the union is unrealistic. The point that I continue to make is that negotiations are a give and take processes. Look at the drivers last contract - you did not get everything you wanted and neither did the company. With the mechanics it has become all take and no give.

 

[drewed]

I think this has been asked before, but what would you be happy with getting? What consessions would you be ok with giving?

 

[705red]

To some extent I agree with what you are saying RED - 5 years is a long time to be without a contract for both the company and the union. The problem is that the expectations of the union is unrealistic. The point that I continue to make is that negotiations are a give and take processes. Look at the drivers last contract - you did not get everything you wanted and neither did the company. With the mechanics it has become all take and no give.

Theres plenty of blame to go around for both sides. But if a mediator has called it and no future talks will happen to November this is no good. That means as of November the mechanics could walk, this is during peak and would hurt ups far above what the mechanics are asking for.

I'm the last one anyone would here would expect to ever say not to strike. We have the opportunity to grow and gather old dhl accounts and steal fed ex accounts and a strike going in to the holiday season would severely hurt us.

But in no way am i saying that the mechanics shouldn't strike, they have hung in there for 5 years. I guess the question here is when is enough enough?

 

[Air Hub]

That means as of November the mechanics could walk, this is during peak and would hurt ups far above what the mechanics are asking for.

I'm the last one anyone would here would expect to ever say not to strike. We have the opportunity to grow and gather old dhl accounts and steal fed ex accounts and a strike going in to the holiday season would severely hurt us.

But in no way am i saying that the mechanics shouldn't strike, they have hung in there for 5 years. I guess the question here is when is enough enough?

Going on strike is not that easy under the Railway Labor Act.
Lots of good reading material here.

http://www.ipapilot.org

short version is the A&P are SOL and will keep getting bleed by UPS

sorry wish I had better news

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

A&P Airframe and Powerplant

SOL **** Out of Luck

 

[unionman]

Thank you for helping me make my point. I was one of the pilots making these pages of logbook write-ups. Virtually all of the heavy maintenance facilities I have worked with in the U.S. were far less competent than what I experience with the "overseas" shops.

Actually, I think I misunderstood what you guys are negotiating for. I thought you wanted the heavy maintenance work (overhaul), and were using safety as a justification. Based on the last post from Unionman, it sounds like you are not looking for that work. I am all for you guys keeping the Phase Check and deferral work. I stand corrected.

Hey Need4speed, I use to work for United airlines which use to do Heavy maintenance on all there aircraft. It took United 50 plus years to get there maintenance program to where it was before they decided to outsource it. They had tooling that was made for jobs in the thousands, they had the engineering, they had everything they needed to have complete control over how and when there aircraft got repaired.
United used bankruptcy like many other careers and got rid of there in house maintenance. I'm not complaining I'm trying to make a point.
Now that just about every airline no longer does heavy checks and they have reduced there AMT's by the thousands. There are no pensions, the wages are good but the working conditions are bad. Midnights, traveling all over the country to stay employed.
To get one of the good jobs it will take you years working with no benefits in places like Mobile aerospace, or Timco.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that our career field is fading fast. There are no new AMT's coming into this field and the ones that have been laid off have found other careers because there is no hope of coming back.
There is a big problem coming for all airlines. No talent to work on these aircraft in the near future. There is such a big gap between the experienced AMT and the not so experienced AMT that there will be big problems in the not so distant future. You are seeing it when you fly those aircraft out of Moblie aerospace or Timco.

 

[beentheredonethat]

airbusfxr,
Could you tell us, what exactly do you think a fair day's pay is? What should your pay be?, what should your benefits be?

Airbusfxr,
Just still wonderinng what you think a fair days pay is. Please no generalizations about company profits etc. What should your hourly pay be? What should benefits be, what should pension be etc?

 

[unionman]

Airbusfxr,
Just still wonderinng what you think a fair days pay is. Please no generalizations about company profits etc. What should your hourly pay be? What should benefits be, what should pension be etc?

===========
10% more than what you make

 

[Air Hub]

Airbusfxr,
Just still wonderinng what you think a fair days pay is. Please no generalizations about company profits etc. What should your hourly pay be? What should benefits be, what should pension be etc?

Ok, I'll bite

How about half of what an FO make for a base pay rate.



http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html

Or maybe add the two pilots wages together and give that to the Mechanics, cuz it only takes one mechanic to do the same damage as two pilots.

 

[unionman]

Ok, I'll bite

How about half of what an FO make for a base pay rate.



http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html

Or maybe add the two pilots wages together and give that to the Mechanics, cuz it only takes one mechanic to do the same damage as two pilots.

How much do you think the AMT that could have prevented this accident is worth?

An altimeter problem caused the crash last week of a Turkish Airlines plane as it approached Amsterdam's Schiphol airport, killing nine people and injuring more than 80, investigators said Wednesday.
"The voice recordings and black boxes in the possession of the Dutch Safety Board indicate that irregularities occurred during the plane's descent," board chief Peter van Vollenhoeven told journalsts.
"At a height of 1,950 feet, around 700 metres, the left altimeter suddenly showed a change in altitude, which it transmitted to the automatic pilot, that had been engaged for the landing," he said.
The Boeing 737-800, en route from Istanbul to Amsterdam with 127 passengers and seven crew, crashed and broke into three pieces some three kilometres (two miles) short of the runway at Schiphol on February 25.
Five Turks and four Americans among the passengers were killed and 86 hurt, of whom 28 were still in hospital Wednesday.

 

[Catatonic]

How much do you think the AMT that could have prevented this accident is worth?

An altimeter problem caused the crash last week of a Turkish Airlines plane as it approached Amsterdam's Schiphol airport, killing nine people and injuring more than 80, investigators said Wednesday.
"The voice recordings and black boxes in the possession of the Dutch Safety Board indicate that irregularities occurred during the plane's descent," board chief Peter van Vollenhoeven told journalsts.
"At a height of 1,950 feet, around 700 metres, the left altimeter suddenly showed a change in altitude, which it transmitted to the automatic pilot, that had been engaged for the landing," he said.

In other words, pilot error?

 

[unionman]

In other words, pilot error?

No a faulty altimeter caused this crash. MECHANICAL failure.

 

[ups767mech]

No a faulty altimeter caused this crash. MECHANICAL failure.

Which had been writen up at least twice in the week prior to the fatal accident. I dont know how turkish laws are but if that was a United States aircraft and mechanic, charges of involentary manslaughter would be somewhere in their future.

Aside from the pilots, mechanics are the only ones that will do jail time if the dont do their job correctly. That my friends, comes at a price.