my thoughts on new contract

[705red]

I have a problem with using the gps to discipline an employee. We have fought for years to not allow ups to use technology to discipline and now we can lose our job, just because some pencil pucher in an office said we went off route because his garmin gps siad we did, or a feeder driver on a mileage run had to detour because of an accident. I really could live with the wages, but there is alot of negative language that will hurt us forever if this contract gets passed.Here we changed our by laws in 03 and are allowed to witness the vote counts on everything that gets voted on, is it simliar on the national level?

 

[hoff3378]

I'm voting no. This is the worst contract I've seen in my sixteen years with UPS. Hoffa sold us out. I don't see how anyone who reads this contract can vote yes. Since we vote by mail, I'm sure the contract will pass. I wonder what would happen if everyone who lives in a "Right to Work" state sent their local union a withdrawl card??? Remember, your money is far more important than your vote. Nevertheless, please encourage everyone in your center to mail their ballot back in a timely manner and encourage a "NO VOTE"

 

[hoff3378]

You are correct! This entire contract is a play on words. I'm a no vote

 

[BrownShark]

Today, our current Ba visited the yard and tried to sell the contract.

It was a funny site, the only thing he kept telling everyone was "its all how you chose to look at it" ... " its not all that bad"

I calmly approached him as he knows me and my record as an Officer and a BA, and I asked him to stop mis-leading the membership with incorrect info.

I called him out on several articles and pointed out the flaws in the language. He had no answer. He then folded up his table and gathered his papers and left the yard.

I personally have called our secretary treasurer and voiced my concerns and opinions that this contract should be shot down and all parties returned to the table AFTER the membership is contacted and asked what it is we want corrected.

Simply sending the same dummies with the same ideas to the table is pointless.

WE SHALL DICTATE WHAT IS IN OUR BEST INTERESTS IN OUR YARDS.

We also realize that there has to be a compromise here and there, however, it should not be ALL of our hard earned rights as Union workers for the most profitable company in the USA.

Peace.

 

[Braveheart]

I have a problem with using the gps to discipline an employee. We have fought for years to not allow ups to use technology to discipline and now we can lose our job, just because some pencil pucher in an office said we went off route because his garmin gps siad we did, or a feeder driver on a mileage run had to detour because of an accident. I really could live with the wages, but there is alot of negative language that will hurt us forever if this contract gets passed.Here we changed our by laws in 03 and are allowed to witness the vote counts on everything that gets voted on, is it simliar on the national level?

I agree!!! It is all about the language!!!

8 hour requests, are really 8 and 1/2 hour since you can't file unless you work over 8 and 1/2 hours and why in the world would we agree to straight time penalties?!?!

All of our penalties have been OVERTIME OR GREATER yet our union gives them straight time!!!!

It also states that UPS has a loophole in that " NO PENALTY SHALL BE DUE IF THE EMPLOYEE EXCEED THE EIGHT AND ONE HALF (8.5) HOUR THRESHOLD AS A RESULT OF EVENTS BEYOND THE EMPLOYER'S CONTROL"

So you see, they get a 30 minute cushion and an out clause!!!!!!!!!

We just want to be off in 8 twice a month for the love of GOD!!!!

We do not want the bloody penalty!!!!

 

[Braveheart]

here a link for the contract, beware it's pretty hard to read as is all contracts. http://www.teamster.org/divisions/parcel/pdfs/NewUPSMasterAgreement_071012.pdf

Most PT's work for ups to get the benfits and now they have to wait 1 year to get them. what type of people are we going to get in the centers? starting pay for someone is $8.50 in 2011. who's going to work for that? drivers think there loaders are bad now, just wait.

for driver an 8 hour request day will have to be put in writting 5 days in advance.

i'm sure theres more i just have really read the whole thing, just skimed it over.

I am going to vote no.. you all vote the way you want, but make an informed choice

I agree!!! 24 hour notice was fine! Maybe 48 hour notice, but 5 days is a stretch.

I have been with UPS over 16 years and have witnessed drivers in a time of need.

They would try to get an 8 hour day so they would not have to up and call and sick.

Now with the 5 day requirement more people would be forced to just call in sick.

It is all about the contract language people!!!!

 

[Braveheart]

There is a lot of vote "yes"-- vote "no" talk going around. The thing that desturbs me is that the so called contract agreement came out a few days ago and as usual it is filled with very vague language at best. When you talk to a union official or management person you get answers such as I thing it is going to be this way or that way, Or I am almost positive, I am 90% sure, etc.... If the agreement is made and they are preparing to send out ballots. Why can't we get any concrete, in black and white answers to what is actually in the new contract proposal. It only leads me to believe that they are not being honest with us, and have much to hide in order to get this contract to pass.
I don't thing that it is to much to ask, that we have it in plain english, down to the letter, what we will be voting on. It seems that they intend to have us cast our votes on pure faith, and not the concrete facts.
It is my opinion that we must send the company and the union a loud and clear message that until we get a very clear and concrete answer to what we are voting on, don't look for the contract to pass. We need to let them know that until we have a very clear and concrete understanding of this contract proposal, they will get nothing but "NO" votes. I don't think that asking to know what we are voting on is to much to ask.

I agree!! Why was the whole contract so hush hush?????

There are plenty of negative changes to the contract but also many articles that were left unchanged and not improved!!!!!

ART 48 FOR ONE!!!!!

ART 47 TOO!!!!

ART 7 AND 52 AS WELL!!!!!

 

[Braveheart]

My truck was built in 1972!!!!

Many of us are asking for smaller raises!!!

The next raise is less than 2.5 %....

Heck many of us would take even less.

We just want the contract language fixed!!!

 

[sawdusttv]

My truck was built in 1972!!!!

Many of us are asking for smaller raises!!!

The next raise is less than 2.5 %....

Heck many of us would take even less.

We just want the contract language fixed!!!

That is exactly right Braveheart!
Even the contract proposal that they have printed and given to us, is so vague that the language could mean a thousand different things. This however is not a mistake on the companies or the teamsters part. Mr Hoffa was a corperate contract lawyer before becoming the pred. of the teamsters union. He negotiated contracts for a living. Therefore, he must be very aware of the vague language in our contract, which would lead you to believe that it was worded that way on purpose. Remember, "That is what it says, but that is not what it means."

 

[sawdusttv]

Taking the pension issue out of the equation and focusing on the articles that govern every day operations. The changes in this contract if passed will be nothing short of genocide for the hourly UPS employee.

 

[steamroll]

LOL someone that does not have a clue what goes on. FT are getting some what of a shaft but the part timers and new hires are really getting reemed.
I know alot of people that work for old brown that have 4year degress, masters etc. For the area I am located in it does no good. You have to relocate and if you can't, then your SOL.
PT starting wages is a slap in the face. When min wage is getting close to PT wages its a disgrace.

Since you are a customer, how you like your packages to arrive? All in one piece? or looking like it got ran over by a freight train.
The quailty has went down, people dont care cause they arent making enough money to care. Put fraigle all you want and arrows pointing up, do you think they care if it breaks?

How about this, go be a PT get paid $30/day to bust your ass and care and come back here and let me know what your feelings are.

My main point is, we cant keep help as it is now, with this contact we sure wont keep any if it does go though.

Dont even get me on started on the FT aspect of things,


You have no idea, what is hard and nothing about the injuries. For i.e a guy at my center has had 2 knee surgeries 3 back surgeries, and is only 34 and around 14 years of service. Wonder if he will be able to bend over and tie his shoes when he is 40? You think they took it easy on him when he came back? Nope, thrown back out to the wolves.

With that said, and you said "if you don't like it then leave"
LOL who would want a worn out ups driver with bad kness and a bad back?

well ups is a used & misused you type of company. the contract shafts every classifications one way or another. some of the nonunion ups freights are doing some the union feeder pick ups. if you notice why you see less volume in your center. package car drivers are screwed over the 9.5 opt in/out situation like for example if a driver decides to opt out 9.5, the center can pile him/her with a lot of work forcing excessive overtime & can't file a grievance for 5 months. the combo workers no improved language for their classification. meaning no job protection. right now their jobs are being reconfigured like crazy & some are even being laid off. the part timers now maybe have to wait 20 years to go full time & if they go driving the have to wait a extra full time year to get top pay & the brand new part timers have to wait a year to get their medical insurance & 1 1/2 year for family members. also have to wait a year to be eligible for holiday pay. like for example if someone is hired in february of 2008. the next holiday pay that person is elgible to be paid for would be memorial day 2009. right now in california minimum wage is $8.00 & ups is $8.50. well the new kids are better working at burger king where they aren't moving package up to 150 lbs or lifting 50/60 lbs over their heads on a conveyor belt. i clearly understand your main point i find packages being loaded crushed or opened in trucks everyday & for the sorters unloaders sending wet, & opened packages & irregular packages thru the systems. unfortunately i have to call them minimum wage workers, ups & the union should be ashamed. for ups it's about cheap labor & the union it's about the $300 intitation fees that were voted in the local 396 bylaws at the membership meeting of march 2007. in 1982 the ups starting wage was $8.00 & since 1997 the current $8.50. a least until this current agreement expires july 31,2013. so in 31 years the ups starting wage went up only .50 cents. remember in 1982 the two-tier wages systems was introduced. if have any inside employees at your center that was hired before august 1, 1982 is probably making a little less than a package car driver. that system set inside employees that were hired after august 1.1982 back big time. don't worry i've have a bad back & i'll always try to preserve thy self. i feel your struggle take care

 

[Theichii]

SO what does this mean for me that just got hired today as a preloader and is signed up for driver training school in new orleans (btw where is it exactly) and will be cover driving?

 

[paidslave]

Brothers and Sisters,

Reading it and understanding what youre reading are two different things. As a hint, anything in BOLD print is new language, anything with a line thru it is deleted language.

Depending on what classification youre in, read the articles that effect you most.

Essentially, all articles contain some form of concession that favors the company. There is NOT one article that is new or improves the protection of employees in any catagory.

It appears however, that UPS and the Teamsters left the feeder department alone with the exception of subcontracting, which the Teamsters have agreed to allow the company to hire outside the corridors for drop ships. Nonetheless, the point is this, by leaving the feeder dept alone, the fate of this contract rests with THEM.

They are both hopiing that the feeder dept will vote yes and cancel out the small percentage of part time votes, and the usual 3% of package drivers who vote on these issues.

Yes, the voting history of the UPS employees nationwide is sad. We all must motivate every employee in our buildings to read, understand whats at stake and vote no and demand that the union correct and remove the TERRIBLE language contained in article 37,43,44 and so on.

Hopefully, we can collectively convince the feeder drivers that although they are not affected that bad, WE ARE.

As a driver of 17 years, and a former executive officer of my local, I can say that this contract is full of concessions and precursers to disaster.

One key thing to look at is the pay raise issue and how it is being sold to ALL EMPLOYEES. This is what they are selling to us:

2008 70 cents
2009 75 cents
2010 75 cents
2011 85 cents
2012 95 cents

totalling $4.00 over five years.

BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the way it actually works out is over 6 years:

2008 35 cents
2009 72 1/2 cents
2010 75 cents
2011 80 cents
2012 90 cents
2013 47 1/2 cents

You see folks, our money is spread over 6 years and we lose a half penny for four years. So if you spread what we actually make over 5 years (aug2008 thru aug 2012) what does it total?

I'll tell you: $3.52 over five years, with 47.5 cents and hour due to us in 2013.

Its all a play on words and numbers.

If you are a sleeper driver, you get 2 cents a year per mile over 5 yrs or ten cents a mile increase. However, youll get a penny on aug 1 and the other penny on feb 1 the following year and so on.

This FUNNY math doesnt work for us brothers and sisters..

We need to vote this contract down and make them fix every article that affects us negatively.

I read the contract. The raise is weak and most of the contract is very weak. The raise will barely keep up with inflation! 70 cents is a 2.5 percent increase year after year for 5 years! This will at least keep up with inflation but I doubt it. At least we may not be worse off than this. It is amazing UPS raises shipping rates 5 or 6 percent a year and we get 2.5 percent raise! Doesn't seem very fair? Well, the first 6 months we get .35 cents and that is a whole $12.00 a week! whippie! I know what my vote is! If this passes with a yes than I will be happy but I am not so sure other members will like this small increase!

ps: the 9.5 language sounds like a tool for UPS not the drivers! my opinion....

 

[toilet paper]

LET ME FIRST SAY THAT I'M A THIRD GENERATION UNION MAN, AND TRUELY BELIEVE IN ORGANIZED LABOR AND WHAT IT DOES FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WORKER. HOWEVER, I CAN'T SEE FOR THE LIFE OF ME HOW THE TEAMSTERS CAN PUT FORTH THIS CONTRACT AND EXPECT ME TO VOTE FOR IT.
(1) THIS CONTRACT WAS DONE A YEAR EARLY.
(2) I CANT SEE ANYTHING BUT CONSESSIONS GIVING UP BY THE UNION TO THE COMPANY.
a. NO NEW FULL-TIME JOBS.
b. PAY RAISES THAT TAKE ME AN EXTRA 6 MONTHS TO RECIEVE.
c. PROGRESSION THAT TAKES AN EXTRA 6 MONTHS.
d. NO PAY RAISE FOR PART-TIME EMPLOYEES.
c. NO PAY RAISE FOR ARTICAL 22.3 EMPLOYEES.
d. HEALTH INSURANCE FOR PART-TIMERS THAT TAKES A YEAR TO GET, AND 18 MONTHS FOR THIER FAMILIES.

THESE ARE JUST THE THINGS THAT HAVE COME OUT. WHAT ABOUT EXCESS OVERTIME, BETTER LANGUAGE FOR SUPERVISORS WORKING, MORE PERSONAL DAYS OFF, MORE VACATION?

LET ME ALSO SAY THAT I'M A 13 YEAR EMPLOYEE WITH UPS, 4 AS A PART-TIMER, 7 AS AN ARTICAL 22.3, AND 2 AS A PACKAGE CAR-DRIVER. I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF US GETTING OUT OF CENTRAL STATES, I THINK THIS WAS A KNOW BRAINER CONSIDERING THE PRESENT STATE OF THE FUND AND THE PROSPECT OF THE GOVERNMENT TAKING IT OVER, HOWEVER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE COMPANY WANTED. TRUE IT WILL COST THEM AROUND 5 BILLION DOLLARS, BUT THIS MONEY WILL BE MADE UP FOR IN A YEAR OR TWO.

IN ENDING, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE UNION GOT FOR US OTHER THAN SOME PAY-RAISES THAT FALL BEHIND THE PACE OF INFLATION FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS. I FOR ONE WILL VOTE NO FOR THIS CONTRACT. IS THIS TRUELY THE BEST THAT THE INTERNATIONAL CAN DO?

 

[toilet paper]

im a freight worker yes this contract stinks thats why we are fighting so hard to keep the bums away from us have you checked out the apwa? just curios as to your thoughts

 

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by jware
LET ME FIRST SAY THAT I'M A THIRD GENERATION UNION MAN, AND TRUELY BELIEVE IN ORGANIZED LABOR AND WHAT IT DOES FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WORKER. HOWEVER, I CAN'T SEE FOR THE LIFE OF ME HOW THE TEAMSTERS CAN PUT FORTH THIS CONTRACT AND EXPECT ME TO VOTE FOR IT.
(1) THIS CONTRACT WAS DONE A YEAR EARLY.
(2) I CANT SEE ANYTHING BUT CONSESSIONS GIVING UP BY THE UNION TO THE COMPANY.
a. NO NEW FULL-TIME JOBS.
b. PAY RAISES THAT TAKE ME AN EXTRA 6 MONTHS TO RECIEVE.
c. PROGRESSION THAT TAKES AN EXTRA 6 MONTHS.
d. NO PAY RAISE FOR PART-TIME EMPLOYEES.
c. NO PAY RAISE FOR ARTICAL 22.3 EMPLOYEES.
d. HEALTH INSURANCE FOR PART-TIMERS THAT TAKES A YEAR TO GET, AND 18 MONTHS FOR THIER FAMILIES.

THESE ARE JUST THE THINGS THAT HAVE COME OUT. WHAT ABOUT EXCESS OVERTIME, BETTER LANGUAGE FOR SUPERVISORS WORKING, MORE PERSONAL DAYS OFF, MORE VACATION?

LET ME ALSO SAY THAT I'M A 13 YEAR EMPLOYEE WITH UPS, 4 AS A PART-TIMER, 7 AS AN ARTICAL 22.3, AND 2 AS A PACKAGE CAR-DRIVER. I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF US GETTING OUT OF CENTRAL STATES, I THINK THIS WAS A KNOW BRAINER CONSIDERING THE PRESENT STATE OF THE FUND AND THE PROSPECT OF THE GOVERNMENT TAKING IT OVER, HOWEVER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE COMPANY WANTED. TRUE IT WILL COST THEM AROUND 5 BILLION DOLLARS, BUT THIS MONEY WILL BE MADE UP FOR IN A YEAR OR TWO.

IN ENDING, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE UNION GOT FOR US OTHER THAN SOME PAY-RAISES THAT FALL BEHIND THE PACE OF INFLATION FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS. I FOR ONE WILL VOTE NO FOR THIS CONTRACT. IS THIS TRUELY THE BEST THAT THE INTERNATIONAL CAN DO?

The concessions that the IBT gave up were in direct relation to the fact that if the early contract was not ratified before Jan 1, 08, the Feds would, without doubt, take over our retirement. Not just a prospect of that happening. No one wanted that, not the company, not the union. The company did use that to their advantage to pressure the union to recommending a 5 year contract with many concessions that favored the company. They had us under a barrel, they knew it and the IBT knew it.

Side note, if you think this contract sucks, just wait till the next one. IF there is a next one.

 

[paidslave]

I have a problem with using the gps to discipline an employee. We have fought for years to not allow ups to use technology to discipline and now we can lose our job, just because some pencil pucher in an office said we went off route because his garmin gps siad we did, or a feeder driver on a mileage run had to detour because of an accident. I really could live with the wages, but there is alot of negative language that will hurt us forever if this contract gets passed.Here we changed our by laws in 03 and are allowed to witness the vote counts on everything that gets voted on, is it simliar on the national level?

Hey RED? Where does it say thay can disicpline using GPS? From my understanding when this came out I read an Article that it's sole purpose is for LOOPING Routes?

 

[paidslave]

I have a problem with using the gps to discipline an employee. We have fought for years to not allow ups to use technology to discipline and now we can lose our job, just because some pencil pucher in an office said we went off route because his garmin gps siad we did, or a feeder driver on a mileage run had to detour because of an accident. I really could live with the wages, but there is alot of negative language that will hurt us forever if this contract gets passed.Here we changed our by laws in 03 and are allowed to witness the vote counts on everything that gets voted on, is it simliar on the national level?

Hey RED? Where does it say thay can disicpline using GPS? From my understanding when this came out I read an Article that it's sole purpose is for LOOPING Routes?

 

[paidslave]

Guys and Girls LISTEN UP?

If this contract is voted YES we well get a .35 cent raise this year and not until August! Anybody understand that?

Also, The Last raise we won't even see on this Contract the way it is split into INSTALLMENTS.......Bottom line we will only be getting $3.60 cents OVER 5 years! What an insult!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We will recieve the Last Raise on the LAST day of the contract........And the next contract after that we will probably feel "Oh we just recieved 40 cents and vote whatever is on the table!

The SPLIT raises every 6 months is redicious and brakes this camels back!

 

[govols019]

Re: Guys and Girls LISTEN UP?

Hey RED? Where does it say thay can disicpline using GPS? From my understanding when this came out I read an Article that it's sole purpose is for LOOPING Routes?

Article 6 Section 4