NEW DRIVER- DAY 20- NEED ADVICE

dysphunktion

A decent sup
dys- I've been around a few years, and the things I don't get regarding ORION:
1. Why take away RDO, which we need, and give us something we don't want, ODO, at a cost that was not necessary, from a company that hates to spend money, and can't get the uniforms we need, because they failed to compensate the vendor switch. All this to aggravate the employees that do the work and make the numbers that fuel the machine? It takes longer to find the stop I need to deliver and carrot, than it takes to actually deliver the stop. In what world does this ever makes sense?
First thing, they typically don't care what you want. I know it's :censored2:ty, but I can't see driver feedback having an impact on this decision. But don't think they are as dumb as they...uh...seem. This decision and most like it aren't made on a whim, last minute (usually) or without having it analyzed to death. So once they ran the numbers and it looked like a good way to save on paper, they ran pilot programs in various centers and it, well, worked. Thing is...those random centers, while yeah they were random, but they were prepped. They spent time working on Orion at those centers. Snap by snap. Those DIADs that used the new mapnav were almost never wrong. Sure, Orion still did things that seemed odd, it was nothing like before. It always sent you to the right house, in a mostly logical way. And this played out across all the pilot centers. Then they dump it on the rest of us and here we are. Sure, I've known it was coming for awhile and we all did. It was up to US to let our center teams know and what they needed to do. Most didn't. Hell, we blew it off until my first center was upgraded and holy hell, it sucked. So we spent an entire weekend going to the 3 centers fixing the :censored2:. Anyway, when it works, it really does work. But that means more work. More stops. Because "when it works" means it's saving time, time that could be used for STOPS! So I hope that made sense? I've been up since 2am, feeling a little talky. What should take a sentence or two, I turn into a novel. :\

2. What major company thinks it's ok to increase their bottom line by stealing from their employees and claiming ignorance when we can see that time is clearly being stolen from us, a cardinal sin for us, but SOP for the company?
Can you be a little more specific? I've seen a few ways we can steal time from drivers?

3. Why is the driver workforce being intentionally driven down in numbers, but the supervisors needed for the reduced drivers needed increased?
This is news to me. Well, the increase in management. What kind of management? In what kind of centers? The world needs less of us, honestly.
As for the actual workforce being driven down, you know why. It's almost always going to be because...jingle jangle. They want nothing more than to find ways of getting more work out of you while paying you the least they can with as few benefits as possible.


4. Like anything at UPS, if we all acted like we loved ORION, would they take it away just to spite us just like they shove the things we complain about down our throat?
Nooo, no no. I don't think the decision makers are THAT nasty. Besides, they love Orion. It IS a good system, don't get me wrong. I support it. I know it well and can skirt some edges in areas
that help my drivers in various ways.


::EDIT::
I know how to quote. :(
 

dysphunktion

A decent sup
But wait: doesn't a good, e.g, 'optimized', route get us more stops?
Hmm. Yeah. I hinted at this before I think. So yeah, typically you're right. But some of the routes I work on can have 20+ stops added and a driver home after 8 hours. Or 9.5. Or w/e. All on same route.
I do this kinda thing when a driver needs out of there a bit faster or has an upcoming expense and could use some OT. It's a balancing act that can backfire on me later...shrug.
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
First thing, they typically don't care what you want. I know it's :censored2:ty, but I can't see driver feedback having an impact on this decision. But don't think they are as dumb as they...uh...seem. This decision and most like it aren't made on a whim, last minute (usually) or without having it analyzed to death. So once they ran the numbers and it looked like a good way to save on paper, they ran pilot programs in various centers and it, well, worked. Thing is...those random centers, while yeah they were random, but they were prepped. They spent time working on Orion at those centers. Snap by snap. Those DIADs that used the new mapnav were almost never wrong. Sure, Orion still did things that seemed odd, it was nothing like before. It always sent you to the right house, in a mostly logical way. And this played out across all the pilot centers. Then they dump it on the rest of us and here we are. Sure, I've known it was coming for awhile and we all did. It was up to US to let our center teams know and what they needed to do. Most didn't. Hell, we blew it off until my first center was upgraded and holy hell, it sucked. So we spent an entire weekend going to the 3 centers fixing the :censored2:. Anyway, when it works, it really does work. But that means more work. More stops. Because "when it works" means it's saving time, time that could be used for STOPS! So I hope that made sense? I've been up since 2am, feeling a little talky. What should take a sentence or two, I turn into a novel. :\


Can you be a little more specific? I've seen a few ways we can steal time from drivers?


This is news to me. Well, the increase in management. What kind of management? In what kind of centers? The world needs less of us, honestly.
As for the actual workforce being driven down, you know why. It's almost always going to be because...jingle jangle. They want nothing more than to find ways of getting more work out of you while paying you the least they can with as few benefits as possible.



Nooo, no no. I don't think the decision makers are THAT nasty. Besides, they love Orion. It IS a good system, don't get me wrong. I support it. I know it well and can skirt some edges in areas
that help my drivers in various ways.


::EDIT::
I know how to quote. :(

2. The adjustment in time allowances. I believe that increase in stops isn't from the ORION "improvement", but simply tightening the screws on allowances so that now, when 100 stops and 160 miles was 9.5, the same amount of work is now 8.2. The boxes still have to get from the package car to the delivery point, and ORION cannot "optimize", or make that any faster.
I'm interested in the ways you know about.
 

dysphunktion

A decent sup
EXACTLY!

When they ask me I tell them my route is perfect.

Do I want 20 more stops?

It is management's job to fix it.
So, maybe I'm just too damn tired but you say you don't want the 20 more stops and then follow up with it's our job to fix it? If we fix it, chances are you'll get more stops.
 

dysphunktion

A decent sup
2. The adjustment in time allowances. I believe that increase in stops isn't from the ORION "improvement", but simply tightening the screws on allowances so that now, when 100 stops and 160 miles was 9.5, the same amount of work is now 8.2. The boxes still have to get from the package car to the delivery point, and ORION cannot "optimize", or make that any faster.
I'm interested in the ways you know about.
There are quite a few ways to get things, um, done. But in reality, only a couple that actually don't amount to falsifying by changing numbers to look better or aren't thrown into the realm of integrity issues.
It takes a few systems working together. I'm not going to get into specifics, obviously. Or my next 6am ZoomyZoom time is going to be about making sure our teams aren't doing it, lol. So anyway, the RTW and DPS come into play. DPS has a lot of features that no one ever bothers with. Combine that with...:censored2:. I guess this one does involve some :censored2:. There is some SNAP stuff in there, mile calculation settings and etc.
Not too sure how familiar you are with DPS, but yeah.
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
There are quite a few ways to get things, um, done. But in reality, only a couple that actually don't amount to falsifying by changing numbers to look better or aren't thrown into the realm of integrity issues.
It takes a few systems working together. I'm not going to get into specifics, obviously. Or my next 6am ZoomyZoom time is going to be about making sure our teams aren't doing it, lol. So anyway, the RTW and DPS come into play. DPS has a lot of features that no one ever bothers with. Combine that with...:censored2:. I guess this one does involve some :censored2:. There is some SNAP stuff in there, mile calculation settings and etc.
Not too sure how familiar you are with DPS, but yeah.

I'm not being an ass, but are you basically admitting that we drivers are being stolen from?
 

dysphunktion

A decent sup
I'm not being an ass, but are you basically admitting that we drivers are being stolen from?
Hmm, well, no, not really. Forgive me, but what part of what I wrote lead you to think that? The whole idea of manipulating those systems to get a certain outcome?
 

35years

Well-Known Member
So, maybe I'm just too damn tired but you say you don't want the 20 more stops and then follow up with it's our job to fix it? If we fix it, chances are you'll get more stops.
I dont want the stops so I dont fix it (I dont give feedback).

I was saying it is not my job to fix it. If you want to fix it that is your business.

I am not going to help you replace me by getting my feedback on how the route should be run.

When ORION was implemented I beat the solution miles by 20-60 per day by NOT running Orion order. Once RDO was taken away it became cumbersome and taxing to try to beat ORION. So now I just run ORION blindly with an occasional adjustment, put on 20-60 miles more than I should and do about 15-20 less stops in the same amount of time.

Now I told you there is a work-around to utilize RDO which management is unaware of. (Not the switch it on-off-on trick) I use it on an occasional basis when I need to be done early. But because UPS is so committed to the ineffective ORION solutions I feel no responsibility to find the best solution on a daily basis.

Frankly I am surprised that there are any managers who actually believe ORION works well. The ORION solutions are flawed because the objectives and parameters in the algorithm are flawed. The best that can be expected is a slightly better outcome that sending an inexperienced driver out blind. The algorithm should be scrapped and be rewritten utilizing far more driver input.
 
Last edited:

dysphunktion

A decent sup
I dont want the stops so I dont fix it (I dont give feedback).

I was saying it is not my job to fix it. If you want to fix it that is your business.

I am not going to help you replace me by getting my feedback on how the route should be run.

When ORION was implemented I beat the solution miles by 20-60 per day by NOT running Orion order. Once RDO was taken away it became cumbersome and taxing to try to beat ORION. So now I just run ORION blindly, put on 20-60 miles more than I should and do about 15-20 less stops in the same amount of time.

Now I told you there is a work-around to utilize RDO which management is unaware of. (Not the switch it on-off-on trick) I use it on an occasional basis when I need to be done early. But because UPS is so committed to the ineffective ORION solutions I feel no responsibility to find the best solution on a daily basis.
Just don't post it here, lol. I won't ask, no worries. Again, be careful.

I've seen drivers (er, heard about on a call) get into trouble for their miles. It's another thing that is getting hotter later. Demo. Anyway, so yeah, ORION said his route was, say 175 miles and he does it in 145, near perfect trace and time. I'm sure you know that they didn't give him props for tearing it up. Nope. They pulled telematics to see where he did something wrong to get that outcome. They tried to say he didn't hit up a placard pickup, just scanned a picture on his phone. (lol, I've sent my new drivers really clear pictures of a couple, ;) He tells them to check telematics again. Sure enough, he went. They got him, kinda, on the "near perfect trace". So obviously he had to break trace otherwise his miles would have been way closer. But he was clever and knew his route better than ORION was setup at that center and tore it up. They gave management :censored2: for a long time over that. "Oh man, I'm nervous today! I hope I don't do really good like X did! He ran a great route and got called into the office!" etc etc....

In the end, if your route works for you and you're happy with it and management hasn't found something to bitch about, keep on doing your thing.
 

35years

Well-Known Member
It is nothing dishonest so no need to be careful. Just a way to run the route using RDO as the base rather than ORION. Basicly the way it was before RDO was taken away. I dont care if I get called into the office. Warning letters are worthless and honesty is my guide.

I stop complete at the geographical location without exception, but can still beat ORION by 20+ easily. It has nothing to do with that. My ORION trace compliance is absolutely dismal when I run it my way and beat the projected miles. If I run ORION trace I will be 20-60 miles over projected. Since this is what they want. I give them ORION; less work for me.

If I posted it here or told other drivers in the center it would eventually be shut down, so I dont share how to get and use RDO.
 
Last edited:

Heavy Package

Well-Known Member
Is it just me, or does this Dysfunction management shill have a severe case of diarrhea of the mouth? He should go hold a PCM with all of this useless nonsense coming out of the keyboard.
 

KoennenTiger

Well-Known Member
They haven’t been tracking that this month? I understand. Our flavor of the month is overriding AP’s. Got chewed out for overriding one for an old lady. So now until I retire, I don’t care if you literally don’t have legs, it’s getting sent to the AP.
Happened to me last month. Old disabled lady whose neighbor has been taking care of her including including taking her to get her cancer treatments. Both her and her neighbor were gone so I said no to the next day AP. Supervisor tells me that we always do the AP now no matter what cause somehow this will make ups more money.
 

UpstateNYUPSer

Well-Known Member
Happened to me last month. Old disabled lady whose neighbor has been taking care of her including including taking her to get her cancer treatments. Both her and her neighbor were gone so I said no to the next day AP. Supervisor tells me that we always do the AP now no matter what cause somehow this will make ups more money.
We make money on the first attempt, break even on the second and lose money on the third; that being said, thank you for taking care of the customer. Sending her stuff to an AP would have been the wrong thing to do.
 
Happened to me last month. Old disabled lady whose neighbor has been taking care of her including including taking her to get her cancer treatments. Both her and her neighbor were gone so I said no to the next day AP. Supervisor tells me that we always do the AP now no matter what cause somehow this will make ups more money.
They told us we have to call in of we override an AP
 
Top