Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by ECV0709, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. dysphunktion

    dysphunktion A decent sup

    First thing, they typically don't care what you want. I know it's :censored2:ty, but I can't see driver feedback having an impact on this decision. But don't think they are as dumb as they...uh...seem. This decision and most like it aren't made on a whim, last minute (usually) or without having it analyzed to death. So once they ran the numbers and it looked like a good way to save on paper, they ran pilot programs in various centers and it, well, worked. Thing is...those random centers, while yeah they were random, but they were prepped. They spent time working on Orion at those centers. Snap by snap. Those DIADs that used the new mapnav were almost never wrong. Sure, Orion still did things that seemed odd, it was nothing like before. It always sent you to the right house, in a mostly logical way. And this played out across all the pilot centers. Then they dump it on the rest of us and here we are. Sure, I've known it was coming for awhile and we all did. It was up to US to let our center teams know and what they needed to do. Most didn't. Hell, we blew it off until my first center was upgraded and holy hell, it sucked. So we spent an entire weekend going to the 3 centers fixing the :censored2:. Anyway, when it works, it really does work. But that means more work. More stops. Because "when it works" means it's saving time, time that could be used for STOPS! So I hope that made sense? I've been up since 2am, feeling a little talky. What should take a sentence or two, I turn into a novel. :\

    Can you be a little more specific? I've seen a few ways we can steal time from drivers?

    This is news to me. Well, the increase in management. What kind of management? In what kind of centers? The world needs less of us, honestly.
    As for the actual workforce being driven down, you know why. It's almost always going to be because...jingle jangle. They want nothing more than to find ways of getting more work out of you while paying you the least they can with as few benefits as possible.

    Nooo, no no. I don't think the decision makers are THAT nasty. Besides, they love Orion. It IS a good system, don't get me wrong. I support it. I know it well and can skirt some edges in areas
    that help my drivers in various ways.

    I know how to quote. :(
  2. dysphunktion

    dysphunktion A decent sup

    Hmm. Yeah. I hinted at this before I think. So yeah, typically you're right. But some of the routes I work on can have 20+ stops added and a driver home after 8 hours. Or 9.5. Or w/e. All on same route.
    I do this kinda thing when a driver needs out of there a bit faster or has an upcoming expense and could use some OT. It's a balancing act that can backfire on me later...shrug.
  3. 35years

    35years Well-Known Member


    When they ask me I tell them my route is perfect.

    Do I want 20 more stops?

    It is management's job to fix it.
  4. upsgrunt

    upsgrunt Well-Known Member

    2. The adjustment in time allowances. I believe that increase in stops isn't from the ORION "improvement", but simply tightening the screws on allowances so that now, when 100 stops and 160 miles was 9.5, the same amount of work is now 8.2. The boxes still have to get from the package car to the delivery point, and ORION cannot "optimize", or make that any faster.
    I'm interested in the ways you know about.
  5. dysphunktion

    dysphunktion A decent sup

    So, maybe I'm just too damn tired but you say you don't want the 20 more stops and then follow up with it's our job to fix it? If we fix it, chances are you'll get more stops.
  6. dysphunktion

    dysphunktion A decent sup

    There are quite a few ways to get things, um, done. But in reality, only a couple that actually don't amount to falsifying by changing numbers to look better or aren't thrown into the realm of integrity issues.
    It takes a few systems working together. I'm not going to get into specifics, obviously. Or my next 6am ZoomyZoom time is going to be about making sure our teams aren't doing it, lol. So anyway, the RTW and DPS come into play. DPS has a lot of features that no one ever bothers with. Combine that with...:censored2:. I guess this one does involve some :censored2:. There is some SNAP stuff in there, mile calculation settings and etc.
    Not too sure how familiar you are with DPS, but yeah.
  7. upsgrunt

    upsgrunt Well-Known Member

    I'm not being an ass, but are you basically admitting that we drivers are being stolen from?
  8. dysphunktion

    dysphunktion A decent sup

    Hmm, well, no, not really. Forgive me, but what part of what I wrote lead you to think that? The whole idea of manipulating those systems to get a certain outcome?
  9. 35years

    35years Well-Known Member

    I dont want the stops so I dont fix it (I dont give feedback).

    I was saying it is not my job to fix it. If you want to fix it that is your business.

    I am not going to help you replace me by getting my feedback on how the route should be run.

    When ORION was implemented I beat the solution miles by 20-60 per day by NOT running Orion order. Once RDO was taken away it became cumbersome and taxing to try to beat ORION. So now I just run ORION blindly with an occasional adjustment, put on 20-60 miles more than I should and do about 15-20 less stops in the same amount of time.

    Now I told you there is a work-around to utilize RDO which management is unaware of. (Not the switch it on-off-on trick) I use it on an occasional basis when I need to be done early. But because UPS is so committed to the ineffective ORION solutions I feel no responsibility to find the best solution on a daily basis.

    Frankly I am surprised that there are any managers who actually believe ORION works well. The ORION solutions are flawed because the objectives and parameters in the algorithm are flawed. The best that can be expected is a slightly better outcome that sending an inexperienced driver out blind. The algorithm should be scrapped and be rewritten utilizing far more driver input.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  10. dysphunktion

    dysphunktion A decent sup

    Just don't post it here, lol. I won't ask, no worries. Again, be careful.

    I've seen drivers (er, heard about on a call) get into trouble for their miles. It's another thing that is getting hotter later. Demo. Anyway, so yeah, ORION said his route was, say 175 miles and he does it in 145, near perfect trace and time. I'm sure you know that they didn't give him props for tearing it up. Nope. They pulled telematics to see where he did something wrong to get that outcome. They tried to say he didn't hit up a placard pickup, just scanned a picture on his phone. (lol, I've sent my new drivers really clear pictures of a couple, ;) He tells them to check telematics again. Sure enough, he went. They got him, kinda, on the "near perfect trace". So obviously he had to break trace otherwise his miles would have been way closer. But he was clever and knew his route better than ORION was setup at that center and tore it up. They gave management :censored2: for a long time over that. "Oh man, I'm nervous today! I hope I don't do really good like X did! He ran a great route and got called into the office!" etc etc....

    In the end, if your route works for you and you're happy with it and management hasn't found something to bitch about, keep on doing your thing.
  11. 35years

    35years Well-Known Member

    It is nothing dishonest so no need to be careful. Just a way to run the route using RDO as the base rather than ORION. Basicly the way it was before RDO was taken away. I dont care if I get called into the office. Warning letters are worthless and honesty is my guide.

    I stop complete at the geographical location without exception, but can still beat ORION by 20+ easily. It has nothing to do with that. My ORION trace compliance is absolutely dismal when I run it my way and beat the projected miles. If I run ORION trace I will be 20-60 miles over projected. Since this is what they want. I give them ORION; less work for me.

    If I posted it here or told other drivers in the center it would eventually be shut down, so I dont share how to get and use RDO.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  12. Heavy Package

    Heavy Package Well-Known Member

    Is it just me, or does this Dysfunction management shill have a severe case of diarrhea of the mouth? He should go hold a PCM with all of this useless nonsense coming out of the keyboard.
  13. KoennenTiger

    KoennenTiger Active Member

    Happened to me last month. Old disabled lady whose neighbor has been taking care of her including including taking her to get her cancer treatments. Both her and her neighbor were gone so I said no to the next day AP. Supervisor tells me that we always do the AP now no matter what cause somehow this will make ups more money.
  14. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Well-Known Member

    We make money on the first attempt, break even on the second and lose money on the third; that being said, thank you for taking care of the customer. Sending her stuff to an AP would have been the wrong thing to do.
  15. Foamer Pyle

    Foamer Pyle Active Member

    I don’t use PAl
  16. They told us we have to call in of we override an AP
  17. Poop Head

    Poop Head Lovin' every minute of it!

    This is *! Ap is only good for customers that are a holes
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2019
  18. I should AP my entire route?
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2019
  19. CD0314

    CD0314 New Member

    I actually started my 30 days before Nov 1 which is what makes me able to qualify.
  20. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    That’s not how it works. Your gonna be so upset when they tell you your done driving Jan 15th and offer you a part time hub spot.