NOT the Best Contract Ever

[688upsteamster]

I don't like what I'm hearing thus far on the contract offer. UPS wants to change progression from 2.5 years to 3.0 to top out. That's Crazy! And not only that they want to change the probationary period from 30 days to 60 days that's even more rediculous. Hey UPS! We don't buy it and hey Hoffa you'd better go back to the table and come up with a better offer. UPS is make millions and they want to break our raise in two increments.
If times were hard at UPS it would be understandable but profits have never been so LARGE.
All I can say PART-TIMERS YOU BETTER CHECK THIS CONTRACT OFFER OUT AND VOICE YOUR OPION BY VOTING NO!!!! The company wants to continue to keep you poor. Rumor had it that they wanted to suspened benifits for new hires for the first year of employment when negotiations started.

Teamsters it's time to get the best contract offer ever, since UPS is making the most money ever. Share when times are good and give when times are bad...

 

[homer123]

I posted that, Homer. And I stand by it. The Teamsters are not LEGALLY bound to represent you after retirement. Whether or not they do is up to them.

As to solidarity....don't get me started on that. -Rocky

Game on. What are your views on solidarity? (you had to know this was coming)

 

[RockyRogue]

Game on. What are your views on solidarity? (you had to know this was coming)

Yeah, I did. But, you have a problem, Houston. I'm not engaging in a debate with you. Have a nice night. -Rocky

 

[homer123]

Yeah, I did. But, you have a problem, Houston. I'm not engaging in a debate with you. Have a nice night. -Rocky

The title of this thread is "Not the best contract ever." There are some excellent and valid points of view here. As I see it (my opinion only), contract suggests union; union suggests collective bargaining; collective suggests solidarity. The dictionary defines solidarity as common interest & active loyalty within a group. Is this contract the beginning of the end of the union? Would the contributors to this thread be as active as they are today if we had not gone through the 1997 strike to keep pensions from UPS? Thanks

 

[RockyRogue]

The title of this thread is "Not the best contract ever." There are some excellent and valid points of view here. As I see it (my opinion only), contract suggests union; union suggests collective bargaining; collective suggests solidarity. The dictionary defines solidarity as common interest & active loyalty within a group. Is this contract the beginning of the end of the union? Would the contributors to this thread be as active as they are today if we had not gone through the 1997 strike to keep pensions from UPS? Thanks

Ahhhhhh......shouldn't do it....shouldn't do it......Ahhh, D*MMIT! Aight...you've lured me in, Homer. I'm not an idiot. I know the definition of union and I know the purpose of a union. However, I'm also a student of history. I've gotten a little too bored for my own good in the last several years. Having ready access to an Internet-connected computer has only enabled my research. I'm all for the old idea of unionization. This happens to the same reason UPS did not put up a fight, indeed, invited the IBT in. One of those reasons is as a sort of "check" on management abuses. I think the IBT has strayed from that purpose. In all honesty, I'm not certain when that happened. Maybe APWA supporters can help me there. The union isn't destroyed by one contract. No, its destroyed by many contracts. I'm afraid you're seeing a steady erosion. You can have your brotherhood and solidarity, just don't get angry when some decide they don't like it OR what is negotiated for them. I speak from firsthand experience here, Homer. My brother works for a restaurant. Their starting wages for kitchen help are equal to our starting wages for skilled labor. YOU GOING TO TELL ME SOLIDARITY IS DOING ME ANY GOOD????

Care for another round, Homer? -Rocky

 

[guyin916]

so there will be no immediate raises for those hired after 2002? i'm trying to find details of this contract. i'll be graduating from CSU Sacramento near Christmas of next year possibly. as it stands, i don't know of any union job that would let me take advantage of my degree. i would have to apply for a corporate job in UPS and cross my fingers. i like my job security currently and hate to give it up for a higher paying job with the lack of job security. i hope to keep the pt job and work full-time elsewhere until i get settled.

so should i not expect an immediate raise when this contract comes into play next year? :-(

 

[homer123]

Ahhhhhh......shouldn't do it....shouldn't do it......Ahhh, D*MMIT! Aight...you've lured me in, Homer. I'm not an idiot. I know the definition of union and I know the purpose of a union. However, I'm also a student of history. I've gotten a little too bored for my own good in the last several years. Having ready access to an Internet-connected computer has only enabled my research. I'm all for the old idea of unionization. This happens to the same reason UPS did not put up a fight, indeed, invited the IBT in. One of those reasons is as a sort of "check" on management abuses. I think the IBT has strayed from that purpose. In all honesty, I'm not certain when that happened. Maybe APWA supporters can help me there. The union isn't destroyed by one contract. No, its destroyed by many contracts. I'm afraid you're seeing a steady erosion. You can have your brotherhood and solidarity, just don't get angry when some decide they don't like it OR what is negotiated for them. I speak from firsthand experience here, Homer. My brother works for a restaurant. Their starting wages for kitchen help are equal to our starting wages for skilled labor. YOU GOING TO TELL ME SOLIDARITY IS DOING ME ANY GOOD????

Care for another round, Homer? -Rocky

Uhhh, well gee, I mean, uhhh, well gosh, Rock...I am glad your brother gets a decent wage. But, I still believe WE are the union. Agreed, the IBT do sometimes act like our politicians; tell us what we want to hear, then do what they want. But the power is in the vote. If people reading this thread or looking carefully at the contract don't think it's a good contract, vote in down & send Hoffa back to the table. Unions are dying off slowly. We should not accelerate it by imploding. If you settle for a contract less than what you want, well...? (I'm also aware of the story of Jim Casey going to the Teamsters & asking them to represent his "boys"-there were no women employees at the time. Did you know that they almost did not accept us because we weren't long-haul truck drivers? Now UPS'ers are the majority) I've enjoyed it Rocky, but we should move on...Thanks

 

[UPS Lifer]

All this "FedEx and DHL could take the volume" stuff doesnt scare me at all. That is typical management rhetoric and we've all heard it before. Nothing can scare me away from striking, if striking is necessary, it wouldn't matter if UPS said they would go belly up. If they can afford to pay their managers 600% bonuses on their total salary, why should I be scared about striking? It's just a job to me, I would probably lose about 10k a year but I would find another job. I'm at UPS to make money, the more I make the better I live, simple as that. I fail to understand the logic behind some of the people here who go around claiming to be content with their current salary.

You are spreading disinformation about 600% bonuses! I won't speak for grade 20 and up! BUT, the vast majority of mgmt. are not much different than you. How many Mercedes SL600 AMGs (or similar cars) do you see in your parking lot? You got to be kidding

Do you realize that if a management person made what a driver made and received a 600% bonus that would mean each management person got a yearly bonus of half a million dollars! Get real!

The top management in this company, in comparison to other top executives, have less perks and are compensated less than other executives for what they do. I am talking about the Management Commitee, CEO, Regional Managers and the like.

There are other threads that talk about the MIP or Management Incentive Plan but it has tightened up dramatically over the last few years. In the past 2 years you are now only awarded half and the other half is held in a trust account for 5 years and it is tied to reaching company specified goals.

Anytime you take a hit, management takes a hit as well. Every contract, I watched management perks and compensation tighten up as well as operational budgets to help pay for the additional funds needed for the contract. Anything that requires spending money has many oversight committees scrutinizing every dollar. Not much gets through anymore without lots of approval including expense accounts.

It is your privilege to vote the contract anyway you feel you should.

Look at a couple of things before making a decision. Is this contract reasonable and fair for everybody? Does it help to improve my co-workers and my standard of living through a better total compensation package? Does it allow UPS to continue to compete in the transportation sector? Will this contract continue to help the company grow (Teamster) jobs and allow for a secure future for all.

PLEASE...
just don't spread misinformation or disinformation.

And there is no management rhetoric about a loss of volume. If volume goes so do jobs etc. This is not a threat ....it is business!

Fedex and DHL salivate over comments you have made...you can bet on it!

 

[homer123]

Looks like we will wait and see what happens. Im out at 25 years even if they take another 30% off of it. I have enough years grandfathered at a full pension and my side investments will carry me over the hump. Good luck to all the new employees though.

I just want to make sure my understanding if the retirement process when UPS takes the pension is correct. (This is the way the BA explained it to me before the agreement actually happened.) If Joe Driver has worked 20 years in 2008 and then retires 10 years later, he would get two pension checks. One from CSPF for 2/3 of what he is entitled (barring any future restructuring) and one from UPS for 1/3 for what he is entitled from their plan. With the exception of very recent hires, everyone has a vested interest in the future of CSPF. Has anyone read or heard anything to the contrary?

 

[Channahon]

JMO

Please keep in mind this contract is for teamsters, and there are non union employees who make this company work on a daily basis as well. They also need to get increases and make a living.


It is a tough competitive world out there. And our union employees are and have been the highest paid in the industry forever.

Employees: 427,700 Worldwide
360,600 U.S. of which 230,000 are teamsters
67,100 International

 

[Griff]

You are spreading disinformation about 600% bonuses! I won't speak for grade 20 and up! BUT, the vast majority of mgmt. are not much different than you. How many Mercedes SL600 AMGs (or similar cars) do you see in your parking lot? You got to be kidding

Do you realize that if a management person made what a driver made and received a 600% bonus that would mean each management person got a yearly bonus of half a million dollars! Get real!

The top management in this company, in comparison to other top executives, have less perks and are compensated less than other executives for what they do. I am talking about the Management Commitee, CEO, Regional Managers and the like.

There are other threads that talk about the MIP or Management Incentive Plan but it has tightened up dramatically over the last few years. In the past 2 years you are now only awarded half and the other half is held in a trust account for 5 years and it is tied to reaching company specified goals.

Anytime you take a hit, management takes a hit as well. Every contract, I watched management perks and compensation tighten up as well as operational budgets to help pay for the additional funds needed for the contract. Anything that requires spending money has many oversight committees scrutinizing every dollar. Not much gets through anymore without lots of approval including expense accounts.

It is your privilege to vote the contract anyway you feel you should.

Look at a couple of things before making a decision. Is this contract reasonable and fair for everybody? Does it help to improve my co-workers and my standard of living through a better total compensation package? Does it allow UPS to continue to compete in the transportation sector? Will this contract continue to help the company grow (Teamster) jobs and allow for a secure future for all.

PLEASE...
just don't spread misinformation or disinformation.

And there is no management rhetoric about a loss of volume. If volume goes so do jobs etc. This is not a threat ....it is business!

Fedex and DHL salivate over comments you have made...you can bet on it!

You've made a living at UPS (stealing from and harassing hourly employees) and even in retirement you're the one spreading disinformation.

If they haven't significantly tightened up language on supervisors working and subcontracting, I am voting NO. I'm tired of delivering BASIC packages to USPS, that's our work and it needs to be done by Teamsters. The fact they are cheapshotting us with the broken up raises is just icing on the cake. Anytime Mike Eskew comes out and says a contract will provide UPS with "the flexibility it needs", it's time to be very worried. Corporate flexibility and our NMA should never be involved in the same sentence, period.

 

[GuyinBrown]

Corporate flexibility and our NMA should never be involved in the same sentence, period.

Wow... Hamstringing the company so that it's inflexible and unable to adapt is clearly the right path.

 

[satellitedriver]

The fact they are cheapshotting us with the broken up raises is just icing on the cake..

So, you think it is better to wait a full year to get your raise?
I think of it as getting half of our raise 6 months early.

 

[Griff]

Wow... Hamstringing the company so that it's inflexible and unable to adapt is clearly the right path.

When you buy a car, do you people pay sticker price or what? I don't, I want the best deal I can possibly get. The dealership won't sell the car at a loss, they'll still make a profit, how much of a profit is up to you.

There's a reason why they are so giddy over this contract. I can't wait to see the details so I can find out why. It makes me sick to see 25+ year drivers still driving around in the same P800 without power steering. UPS would still be building trucks with non ergonomic seats and no power steering if not for language. The union never should adopt a "bend but dont break" mentality when dealing with a company that had record profits. For UPS to come out and claim it provides flexibility means that the union has bent (where and how much is yet to be determined).

 

[GuyinBrown]

1- I don't work for the car dealership so the amount of money they make is irrelevant.

2- Taking away the company's flexibility would remove it's ability to upgrade it's equipment. The very thing you're complaining about. I'm not sure where you saw the company had "record profits". Please point me in that direction.

 

[RockyRogue]

I've enjoyed it Rocky, but we should move on...Thanks

No problem, Homer. You insisted on an argument. As I recall you wrote "Game on." I've never shied from an argument, particularly one written in such a way.

As to the Teamsters....no, I didn't hear that part of the story.

This contract--like the other substandard ones before it--will pass. I've only heard of a handful of contracts that the members voted down and sent the two parties back to the table. None of the ones I can remember hearing about were IBT, either. I think one was SEIU. I forget what the others were. -Rocky

 

[Griff]

1- I don't work for the car dealership so the amount of money they make is irrelevant.

2- Taking away the company's flexibility would remove it's ability to upgrade it's equipment. The very thing you're complaining about. I'm not sure where you saw the company had "record profits". Please point me in that direction.

1 - The point is still the same. UPS would never put itself in a position where it was operating even remotely close to a loss.

2 - It was either record profits or record revenue in '06. One of the two or possibly both, point being...this company is far from hurting financially. We get freezes on uniforms, pens, DR bags....do you really think we are going to see a big increase in new trucks?? I have some real estate I want to sell to you...

 

[GuyinBrown]

1 - The point is still the same. UPS would never put itself in a position where it was operating even remotely close to a loss.

2 - It was either record profits or record revenue in '06. One of the two or possibly both, point being...this company is far from hurting financially. We get freezes on uniforms, pens, DR bags....do you really think we are going to see a big increase in new trucks?? I have some real estate I want to sell to you...

1- The point is nowhere near the same. In your car dealership example, you're trying to minimize the profit of a company that doesn't pay you. The profit they make off the exchange has no bearing on your well being whatsoever.

2- Record profits and record revenue are two distinctly different things. I don't claim these numbers are entirely accurate, but I believe UPS had 47 Billion in revenue last year with a PROFIT of only around 4 Billion. That equates to a slim 8.5% margin. While UPS may not be hurting financially, I highly doubt that's a record. Are you under the impression that making the company hurt financially would be a good thing?

 

[Griff]

1- The point is nowhere near the same. In your car dealership example, you're trying to minimize the profit of a company that doesn't pay you. The profit they make off the exchange has no bearing on your well being whatsoever.

2- Record profits and record revenue are two distinctly different things. I don't claim these numbers are entirely accurate, but I believe UPS had 47 Billion in revenue last year with a PROFIT of only around 4 Billion. That equates to a slim 8.5% margin. While UPS may not be hurting financially, I highly doubt that's a record. Are you under the impression that making the company hurt financially would be a good thing?

1 - the point is the same. i'm a driver, this is a labor contract, ups staying in the black is out of my job description.

2 - i know they are entirely different things, einstein. oh gee, a slim 8.5% margin for a worldwide billion dollar company, the end must be near.

Do you own 51% of UPS stock? What do you care if UPS makes 3 billion in profit rather than 5 billion? Are you Tieguy's son or what?

P.S. - Time for bed. Nice 11hr dispatch waiting for me tomorrow. Cha-ching. Monday and Friday, declared a UPS weekly holiday known as route cut day.

 

[GuyinBrown]

1- I don't think you even know what your point is anymore, other than you want to complain about something. To say that you don't care if UPS makes a profit or not because it isn't in your job description is flat out ignorant. How long do you think you'd have a job if they were forced to operate at a loss?

2- If you know there is a difference between profit and revenue don't treat them as interchangeable numbers. And if you think that 8.5% is such a huge number, then I guess you shouldn't be complaining about an assumed $4.50 wage increase in this contract since that equates to an increase of almost 16%.