W
westsideworma
Guest
It makes perfect sense to move them, because we can! clearly you aren't wearing your UPS thinking cap.
well maybe they needed to give the supes something to do
1
PAS - how do we fix it.
- Thread starter tieguy
- Start date
It makes perfect sense to move them, because we can! clearly you aren't wearing your UPS thinking cap.
well maybe they needed to give the supes something to do
1
browntruckmechanic
Well isn't that special ?????????
OK I'm just the lonely Ole grease monkey here, so someone enlighten me at to what PAS is and what it is suppose to do.
canon
Well-Known Member
It is supposed to make us more efficient.
canon
Well-Known Member
This was one of the things I didn't understand when i show up on the belt everyday... we know almost everything that is coming in well in advance. Where it's going, what truck etc. Why are the splits running all the way until it is time for the drivers to leave? Why are the same packages pulled, replaced... repeated a few more times, then finally put back where they originally started?
Anyone of importance know? Is that the way it is really supposed to work?
The plan is loaded for the day when 80% of the volume in forecasted for the center. However, maybe due to unforseen circumstances (weather, heavy volume shipper) the volume expected in the center is heavier Everything forecasted in the centers is based on customer uploads. So UPS is at the mercy of the customer manifest uploads as to what they shipped and to what areas. Good info if it is correct. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, if the volume is not what the center thought they should receive or more than they thought the center woud get, adds and cuts are made. Not a perfect system at the mercy of our customers. Usually large shippers, who at times do not upload timely. Take a look sometime, and see if you have an unusually amount of packages from one shipper.
dammor
Well-Known Member
As Docter Phil would say, "How's that working for ya?"
canon
Well-Known Member
i thought info was sent as soon as the end of day is run? Even if that info was late in being transmitted, someone shuts a trailer door knowing what is on it, where it is going and when it is going to get there. I could understand a few add splits if some scans are missed on the outbound side... but what we're seeing is more like, "oh no, another 400% we didn't know was coming just landed on our lot!".
Thanks for the explanation... it just seems everything gets scanned and goes on a trailer that gets scanned. I suppose I'm being too simplistic, but I would think we have all the info we need with or without the "customer upload"... we have the packages.
tieguy
Banned
Is this true? I have heard they may start the night with no more than half of the stops forecast?
canon
Well-Known Member
That's what I'm asking... is nothing forcasted until the start of the night? A trailer coming across the country isn't "scheduled" until the preloaders are punching in the night it gets unloaded? U tell me... I have no idea.
W
Will Work For PAS
Guest
the company has all the electronic data it needs to give us a very accurate forecast. either they don't want to give us the forecast or they don't have the programming expertise to put the data together, not sure which is the case. one day they'll get an accurate forecast to the pds's and then the pds's will develop the dispatch plans on the actual stops that will be arriving that day. late add cuts should only happen when drivers don't make it to work (which management doesn't learn about until 6 or 7 am).
satellitedriver
Moderator
Good one!!!!!!!
tieguy
Banned
A high percentage of those packages are within the one day service territory. Those package picked up today and due to be delivered tommorrow. Many of those packages will not forecast until they are processed on a night sort somewhere. Many night sorts run up to, into or the same time the preload operations run.
oldster
Member
Currently, the forecasted package information comes from the customer manifest upload. It is filtered through a time-in-transit routine to determine when it's due a the destination center. So missorts, breakdowns, weather and so on will impact the forecasted volume.
I think in the future, the plan is to use scan-and-link information, but I have not heard that it up-and-running yet. Most buildings in our district are around 90-94% accurate on the forecasted volume that actually arrives.
Even with that, A good PDS can see how the actual volume is trending early in the preload, and use their experience to determine what to expect by the end of the sort.
I think in the future, the plan is to use scan-and-link information, but I have not heard that it up-and-running yet. Most buildings in our district are around 90-94% accurate on the forecasted volume that actually arrives.
Even with that, A good PDS can see how the actual volume is trending early in the preload, and use their experience to determine what to expect by the end of the sort.
rockymtnupser
rockymtnupser
Im with you canon 100 years and they still cant figure it out. We arent a bunch of crooked, sneaky, stealing dishonest drivers in fact every driver in our center does a good job and yet they still want to play this game us against them. Lets get it figured out together stop the name calling and make some money.
Canon,
The 80% is forecasted before the preload starts and the PDS is loading the plan for the day. So at least the PDS can count at that 80% for the first couple hours of the preload. As mentioned above, night sort volume destined for the preload may account for another 20%. Understanding your scan every package question, unfortunately there are missed scans on packages that may account for more volume than expected. We have some shippers that pull volume in the night sorts, and their manifests may not upload until the wee hours of the morning, and the packages may already be in the center. I believe all the forecasts are based on customer uploads, not UPS scans.
Anyone know any different?
The 80% is forecasted before the preload starts and the PDS is loading the plan for the day. So at least the PDS can count at that 80% for the first couple hours of the preload. As mentioned above, night sort volume destined for the preload may account for another 20%. Understanding your scan every package question, unfortunately there are missed scans on packages that may account for more volume than expected. We have some shippers that pull volume in the night sorts, and their manifests may not upload until the wee hours of the morning, and the packages may already be in the center. I believe all the forecasts are based on customer uploads, not UPS scans.
Anyone know any different?
If that's true, then doesn't that leave out packages on hand written manifests, ASD packages, ARS packages, Call Tag packages...
JAFO-Midsouth
New Member
I will give you some answers.
OLPD - The uploads are incomplete and incorrect. My understanding was there is supposed to be a third party company that takes scanned images of packages without opld (or at least ones with hand written labels) and key enter the information in the system.
DOL - The traces for my drivers are VERY bad compared with how they are delivering.
Time Studies - I do not know when the last time study was done in my center, but I do know some numbers are VERY far off.
DMS - The software is klunky to use and is missing some important ease features. (such as a single click button to remove the air from a 20-30 seq add/cut, or the ability to direct map and add/cut from within DMS instead of running DMS and DPS at the same time to do daily adjustments.)
DPS - This software is worse for ease of use. When you make moves in the plan and have it automatically put them in order it often chuncks the moves you make by when you make them skipping over areas. It is impossible to update the maps that it is based off of. (I am using a map that was old when MS used it to make map point 3 years ago. MP2004)
Planning - I am using a time-in-transit guess of what is coming in by shear volume without respect to where that volume falls. That is like saying the dice have memory. if I flip a coin and it is heads 50 times in a row, the odds the next flip is heads is STILL 50%. The ie numbers are also very able. I have seen them adjust them (with little or no warning) to make plan without respect to if they are correct, or even possible.
Don't get me wrong, what we have is better than what we had. I can imagine running todays volume and dispatch with the tools from even a decade ago. I am just saying there is room for improvement.
Last but not least:
People - There is still resistance to PAS 2+ years after we went live. I hear almost every day this cut is not supposed to be on my route because it was not there 10 years ago. Things change and people need to accept the changes and work with them. Preload needs better methods training. We had almost a full week of cornerstone training, a week to learn the area, and then 4 more weeks (total 30 days) to become a good loader. Now they get 1 day of videos (if there is someone to show them) They load on day 2, and are expected to be loading the whole area buy the end of the week. The will be graded based on full production from about day 6 - 30 without any real training on the methods other than on the job. But the emphasis on the job is get the area down and get them off the clock, not teach them how.
All of these problems are interlocked. I have spent the last year trying to fix the problems that I have access to. So far no one above me will respond to inquiry/suggestions on the software. And less than 1 in 20 drivers is willing to sit with me to fix thier route. (The ones I have done, are VERY happy with the results) Most of the rest either grumble that it will never change, accept the daily drudge of what it is, or get actively mad because it wasn't right in the first place instead of accepting it is wrong and helping to fix it.
Making someone responsible for something without giving them any authority over it is almost as insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
OLPD - The uploads are incomplete and incorrect. My understanding was there is supposed to be a third party company that takes scanned images of packages without opld (or at least ones with hand written labels) and key enter the information in the system.
DOL - The traces for my drivers are VERY bad compared with how they are delivering.
Time Studies - I do not know when the last time study was done in my center, but I do know some numbers are VERY far off.
DMS - The software is klunky to use and is missing some important ease features. (such as a single click button to remove the air from a 20-30 seq add/cut, or the ability to direct map and add/cut from within DMS instead of running DMS and DPS at the same time to do daily adjustments.)
DPS - This software is worse for ease of use. When you make moves in the plan and have it automatically put them in order it often chuncks the moves you make by when you make them skipping over areas. It is impossible to update the maps that it is based off of. (I am using a map that was old when MS used it to make map point 3 years ago. MP2004)
Planning - I am using a time-in-transit guess of what is coming in by shear volume without respect to where that volume falls. That is like saying the dice have memory. if I flip a coin and it is heads 50 times in a row, the odds the next flip is heads is STILL 50%. The ie numbers are also very able. I have seen them adjust them (with little or no warning) to make plan without respect to if they are correct, or even possible.
Don't get me wrong, what we have is better than what we had. I can imagine running todays volume and dispatch with the tools from even a decade ago. I am just saying there is room for improvement.
Last but not least:
People - There is still resistance to PAS 2+ years after we went live. I hear almost every day this cut is not supposed to be on my route because it was not there 10 years ago. Things change and people need to accept the changes and work with them. Preload needs better methods training. We had almost a full week of cornerstone training, a week to learn the area, and then 4 more weeks (total 30 days) to become a good loader. Now they get 1 day of videos (if there is someone to show them) They load on day 2, and are expected to be loading the whole area buy the end of the week. The will be graded based on full production from about day 6 - 30 without any real training on the methods other than on the job. But the emphasis on the job is get the area down and get them off the clock, not teach them how.
All of these problems are interlocked. I have spent the last year trying to fix the problems that I have access to. So far no one above me will respond to inquiry/suggestions on the software. And less than 1 in 20 drivers is willing to sit with me to fix thier route. (The ones I have done, are VERY happy with the results) Most of the rest either grumble that it will never change, accept the daily drudge of what it is, or get actively mad because it wasn't right in the first place instead of accepting it is wrong and helping to fix it.
Making someone responsible for something without giving them any authority over it is almost as insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
JAFO-Midsouth
New Member
I will give you some answers.
OLPD - The uploads are incomplete and incorrect. My understanding was there is supposed to be a third party company that takes scanned images of packages without opld (or at least ones with hand written labels) and key enter the information in the system.
DOL - The traces for my drivers are VERY bad compared with how they are delivering.
Time Studies - I do not know when the last time study was done in my center, but I do know some numbers are VERY far off.
DMS - The software is klunky to use and is missing some important ease features. (such as a single click button to remove the air from a 20-30 seq add/cut, or the ability to direct map and add/cut from within DMS instead of running DMS and DPS at the same time to do daily adjustments.)
DPS - This software is worse for ease of use. When you make moves in the plan and have it automatically put them in order it often chuncks the moves you make by when you make them skipping over areas. It is impossible to update the maps that it is based off of. (I am using a map that was old when MS used it to make map point 3 years ago. MP2004)
Planning - I am using a time-in-transit guess of what is coming in by shear volume without respect to where that volume falls. That is like saying the dice have memory. if I flip a coin and it is heads 50 times in a row, the odds the next flip is heads is STILL 50%. The ie numbers are also very able. I have seen them adjust them (with little or no warning) to make plan without respect to if they are correct, or even possible.
Don't get me wrong, what we have is better than what we had. I can imagine running todays volume and dispatch with the tools from even a decade ago. I am just saying there is room for improvement.
Last but not least:
People - There is still resistance to PAS 2+ years after we went live. I hear almost every day this cut is not supposed to be on my route because it was not there 10 years ago. Things change and people need to accept the changes and work with them. Preload needs better methods training. We had almost a full week of cornerstone training, a week to learn the area, and then 4 more weeks (total 30 days) to become a good loader. Now they get 1 day of videos (if there is someone to show them) They load on day 2, and are expected to be loading the whole area buy the end of the week. The will be graded based on full production from about day 6 - 30 without any real training on the methods other than on the job. But the emphasis on the job is get the area down and get them off the clock, not teach them how.
All of these problems are interlocked. I have spent the last year trying to fix the problems that I have access to. So far no one above me will respond to inquiry/suggestions on the software. And less than 1 in 20 drivers is willing to sit with me to fix thier route. (The ones I have done, are VERY happy with the results) Most of the rest either grumble that it will never change, accept the daily drudge of what it is, or get actively mad because it wasn't right in the first place instead of accepting it is wrong and helping to fix it.
Making someone responsible for something without giving them any authority over it is almost as insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
OLPD - The uploads are incomplete and incorrect. My understanding was there is supposed to be a third party company that takes scanned images of packages without opld (or at least ones with hand written labels) and key enter the information in the system.
DOL - The traces for my drivers are VERY bad compared with how they are delivering.
Time Studies - I do not know when the last time study was done in my center, but I do know some numbers are VERY far off.
DMS - The software is klunky to use and is missing some important ease features. (such as a single click button to remove the air from a 20-30 seq add/cut, or the ability to direct map and add/cut from within DMS instead of running DMS and DPS at the same time to do daily adjustments.)
DPS - This software is worse for ease of use. When you make moves in the plan and have it automatically put them in order it often chuncks the moves you make by when you make them skipping over areas. It is impossible to update the maps that it is based off of. (I am using a map that was old when MS used it to make map point 3 years ago. MP2004)
Planning - I am using a time-in-transit guess of what is coming in by shear volume without respect to where that volume falls. That is like saying the dice have memory. if I flip a coin and it is heads 50 times in a row, the odds the next flip is heads is STILL 50%. The ie numbers are also very able. I have seen them adjust them (with little or no warning) to make plan without respect to if they are correct, or even possible.
Don't get me wrong, what we have is better than what we had. I can imagine running todays volume and dispatch with the tools from even a decade ago. I am just saying there is room for improvement.
Last but not least:
People - There is still resistance to PAS 2+ years after we went live. I hear almost every day this cut is not supposed to be on my route because it was not there 10 years ago. Things change and people need to accept the changes and work with them. Preload needs better methods training. We had almost a full week of cornerstone training, a week to learn the area, and then 4 more weeks (total 30 days) to become a good loader. Now they get 1 day of videos (if there is someone to show them) They load on day 2, and are expected to be loading the whole area buy the end of the week. The will be graded based on full production from about day 6 - 30 without any real training on the methods other than on the job. But the emphasis on the job is get the area down and get them off the clock, not teach them how.
All of these problems are interlocked. I have spent the last year trying to fix the problems that I have access to. So far no one above me will respond to inquiry/suggestions on the software. And less than 1 in 20 drivers is willing to sit with me to fix thier route. (The ones I have done, are VERY happy with the results) Most of the rest either grumble that it will never change, accept the daily drudge of what it is, or get actively mad because it wasn't right in the first place instead of accepting it is wrong and helping to fix it.
Making someone responsible for something without giving them any authority over it is almost as insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
canon
Well-Known Member
Excellent post... both of them. They reflect the same problems we see in our center. Out of curiosity, what is the position management takes on the deficiencies? Is there some kind of directive to pretend everything is fine so the public believes the end result matches the hype PAS received prior to deployment? I agree 100% there are drivers who are resistant to change, stubborn to work with etc. But it seems as you stated, in 2+ years you've been using it, most of those issues are only fixable by management... and you even said you can't get anyone higher than yourself to respond. It could be an awesome system, and some say it is... when it works right. I wouldn't know, I have yet to see it fixed.
My position has been that I'll be able to take more stops and do it in less time/miles if someone addresses my concerns... nobody seems to mind as long as I'm coming in under 9.5 hours. In my case, I've been begging to sit down with someone, and even produced maps/notes off the clock and still no progress. Others in my center the same thing... then a few drivers have had excellent response. Maybe they're willing to only deal with the routes that aren't TOO much work to fix? Either way, I'm glad some of the drivers here who have voiced the same issues now finally have someone in management acknowledging the problems. Too often, the management response here reflects the response we see in our centers: Quit whining and "make the best of it". I think the biggest problem is there are too many people who do just that instead of trying to fix it.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Here is what I obsevred to be 2 major problems with PAS. The preloader not knowing any actual address in his pull. Heck, in theory he should even know what town his trucks are in(just needs to look at the HIN's). And pissing our customers off. I understand the desire to re-loop and reduce miles (this is questionable in itself if that has happened)
I don't know if this could be done in practice (I don't get paid to make decisions), so I'll just throw this out there. How about starting PAS with the old loop first and then work from there? What I'm saying is, keep the routes as they were, implement the PAS system and the make changes from there to the routes. That way we're not pissing off all these customers all at once that were getting their delivery at 1045 and now are getting it at 3 pm. This was a huge issue with the routes. I was a cover driver when we went on PAS(so I saw many routes) and there would be businesses loaded in section 8000 in almost all of them. Why? Becuase to re-loop and reduce miles, certain businesses would have to left at the end of the trace to meet the goal of reduced miles.
When we started PAS 3 years ago everything was friend-ed Up. Things are better now, because we basically went back to the old loops. So instead of going through all this crap, why not implement this 1 step at a time instead of just opening the flood gates and see what happens?
PAS is a great tool. I would never want to go back to the old system of delivering packages. It really is great to not have to sort your truck and if you have a good preloader it cuts down on your selection time greatly. Its just the pissing off of customers that I'm concered about.
I don't know if this could be done in practice (I don't get paid to make decisions), so I'll just throw this out there. How about starting PAS with the old loop first and then work from there? What I'm saying is, keep the routes as they were, implement the PAS system and the make changes from there to the routes. That way we're not pissing off all these customers all at once that were getting their delivery at 1045 and now are getting it at 3 pm. This was a huge issue with the routes. I was a cover driver when we went on PAS(so I saw many routes) and there would be businesses loaded in section 8000 in almost all of them. Why? Becuase to re-loop and reduce miles, certain businesses would have to left at the end of the trace to meet the goal of reduced miles.
When we started PAS 3 years ago everything was friend-ed Up. Things are better now, because we basically went back to the old loops. So instead of going through all this crap, why not implement this 1 step at a time instead of just opening the flood gates and see what happens?
PAS is a great tool. I would never want to go back to the old system of delivering packages. It really is great to not have to sort your truck and if you have a good preloader it cuts down on your selection time greatly. Its just the pissing off of customers that I'm concered about.
