Plane crash kills UPS driver

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Did you know....

Ironically....

The UPS Birmingham crash(a few years ago) was of the same type unstabilized approach. All airlines(UPS included) require stabilized approaches or they are to go around.

The UPS plane was high and fast and the pilot miscalculated and hit a hill shy of the runway. He dove for it early morning in the dark.

I believe the/a runway or approach was out of service....

I'll bet it would be hell to pay if that plane was late landing because of the pilot. Gethereitis......happens all the time. Cutting corners...this goes on 24/7 at UPS from small sort to 747's.

No? You aren't paying attention....nor is mgt.
 

UnionStrong

Doesn’t play well with others…
Did you know....

Ironically....

The UPS Birmingham crash(a few years ago) was of the same type unstabilized approach. All airlines(UPS included) require stabilized approaches or they are to go around.

The UPS plane was high and fast and the pilot miscalculated and hit a hill shy of the runway. He dove for it early morning in the dark.

I believe the/a runway or approach was out of service....

I'll bet it would be hell to pay if that plane was late landing because of the pilot. Gethereitis......happens all the time. Cutting corners...this goes on 24/7 at UPS from small sort to 747's.

No? You aren't paying attention....nor is mgt.
Same for all of us.
 

Lineandinitial

Legio patria nostra
Cloud deck ceiling at 1700 ft. With a a 2000 ft(3700 ft. total) vertical top. This put him right in the middle of the clouds. His approach started at 2000 ft.

He went missed on the approach and his approach clearance was canceled and told to climb to 5k. This was because he was so erratic.
His airspeed varied by 100 kts on the flight to the airport. He was in trouble from the start.

Circle to land approaches are the most dangerous kind. This is what the Tahoe jet(a few months ago) was trying also. Circle to land is usually for nearby obstacles(usually mountains) and require tight turns and low altitudes....tough in a high performance jet as they are usually hand flown(no auto-pilot). Most major airlines avoid/ban them altogether) letting smaller regional types try. This is
why Regionals have poor safety records(relatively). They go to smaller more remote places.


Actually crashed at over 250 kts....that's fast. He came out of the clouds at 250........nose down and turning.


I disagree.

ATC was pretty clear. Pilot was not.

Get thereitis played a big role in this. He was a busy Doc and flew his plane to his various clinics. This is very common. Busy Docs make lot's of money this way and having to cancel or divert costs them big bucks.......so they press a bad situation.....for money. A common tale.

Single pilot IFR in a complex(twin) high performance airplane is the most risky. His plane was older and is thought to be very original in instrumentation. That's why most airlines have 2 pilots....one flying, one working the radios and double checking the flying pilot.
METARs doesn’t support your cloud ceiling comment.
He may have got into some small scattered or broken at vectoring altitude.
ATC commands were not a typical step down approach at all. The Controller was definitely confusing before his panicked “Climb” commands.
The pilot did little more than repeat the commands, ask a question and state that he was climbing.
 

UnionStrong

Doesn’t play well with others…
METARs doesn’t support your cloud ceiling comment.
He may have got into some small scattered or broken at vectoring altitude.
ATC commands were not a typical step down approach at all. The Controller was definitely confusing before his panicked “Climb” commands.
The pilot did little more than repeat the commands, ask a question and state that he was climbing.

.
 

Lineandinitial

Legio patria nostra
Did you know....

Ironically....

The UPS Birmingham crash(a few years ago) was of the same type unstabilized approach. All airlines(UPS included) require stabilized approaches or they are to go around.

The UPS plane was high and fast and the pilot miscalculated and hit a hill shy of the runway. He dove for it early morning in the dark.

I believe the/a runway or approach was out of service....

I'll bet it would be hell to pay if that plane was late landing because of the pilot. Gethereitis......happens all the time. Cutting corners...this goes on 24/7 at UPS from small sort to 747's.

No? You aren't paying attention....nor is mgt.
No…Sadly, the cause of 1354 was all Crew induced.
If you think Mgmt had any hand in that accident, you must not realize how Flight Ops is run.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
No…Sadly, the cause of 1354 was all Crew induced.
If you think Mgmt had any hand in that accident, you must not realize how Flight Ops is run.
Oh I know how UPS is run....

And that includes "flight ops".....

Say, "any hand".....you saying there is zero pressure...as in any.....for that Captain for going around? And all that entails...fuel, time etc.?

Ok.....

Hell is paved with these kinds of accidents.

That Captain would have to explain why he went around and flight data examined....guaranteed.

There are always other factors including inoperable runways and landing instruments. And always weather. Clear, moonless, dark nights can be especially dangerous. Noting he was hand flying the approach.

There are some famous stories of when UPS started the airline...bringing pkg operation procedures to aviation...

But I'm sure you would discount and dismiss them though.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
No…Sadly, the cause of 1354 was all Crew induced.
If you think Mgmt had any hand in that accident, you must not realize how Flight Ops is run.
Say, what do you currently fly?

I draw on being an instrument pilot/A&P Mechanic.

How about you?

It's better when you know who you are talking to....

I'm just a truck driver....

I'm assuming you are a UPS PILOT? Military all that?
 

Lineandinitial

Legio patria nostra
Oh I know how UPS is run....

And that includes "flight ops".....

Say, "any hand".....you saying there is zero pressure...as in any.....for that Captain for going around? And all that entails...fuel, time etc.?

Ok.....

Hell is paved with these kinds of accidents.

That Captain would have to explain why he went around and flight data examined....guaranteed.

There are always other factors including inoperable runways and landing instruments. And always weather. Clear, moonless, dark nights can be especially dangerous. Noting he was hand flying the approach.

There are some famous stories of when UPS started the airline...bringing pkg operation procedures to aviation...

But I'm sure you would discount and dismiss them though.
No. I don’t want to argue with you.
The ACP would have talked to them both and followed up if and as required.
 
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