Progressive Discipline??

[RKYMNTBROWN]

Here's something I have recently observed...Driver was issued a warning letter for violation "A" (lets say it was a open bulk head door) on such an such date. A few weeks later driver was observed violating "A" again twice in one day . So center manager tell the diver you are going to suspend you for the second violation and terminate you for the third violation. Suspended and terminated in the same day?

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Don't worry, he'll have his job back on the 4th day.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Here's something I have recently observed...Driver was issued a warning letter for violation "A" (lets say it was a open bulk head door) on such an such date. A few weeks later driver was observed violating "A" again twice in one day . So center manager tell the diver you are going to suspend you for the second violation and terminate you for the third violation. Suspended and terminated in the same day?

I've heard that some supervisors have tried to issue three warning letters at once to try and fired people quickly. Its getting bad out there guys.

 

[grgrcr88]

Here's something I have recently observed...Driver was issued a warning letter for violation "A" (lets say it was a open bulk head door) on such an such date. A few weeks later driver was observed violating "A" again twice in one day . So center manager tell the diver you are going to suspend you for the second violation and terminate you for the third violation. Suspended and terminated in the same day?

This should be an easy win for the Union. If a supervisor seen him doing something that was unsafe enough for discipline He/She should have stopped that driver immediately and told them to correct the problem, if they did not it must not have been that big a deal, therefore no reason to discipline said driver!!!

If they did do that and the same driver was caught again, he will have a very hard time winning.

 

[brownmonster]

If you are caught doing violation "A', warned about it, and then go about doing it again even though we all know they are following us around, who's the fool.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

If you are caught doing violation "A', warned about it, and then go about doing it again even though we all know they are following us around, who's the fool.

We have a winner!

On the other hand, I do think suspending and firing someone in the same day is over the top, unless the sup had disciplined the driver after the first observation (the suspension) and then terminated him after the second observation on the same day.

At any rate, if an unsafe behavior was observed and disciplined, it is up to the employee to correct that behavior or risk further discipline.

 

[Bubblehead]

We have a winner!

On the other hand, I do think suspending and firing someone in the same day is over the top, unless the sup had disciplined the driver after the first observation (the suspension) and then terminated him after the second observation on the same day.

At any rate, if an unsafe behavior was observed and disciplined, it is up to the employee to correct that behavior or risk further discipline.

Agreed.
Problem being, as you alluded, progressive dissapline is designed to affectuate a change in behavior.
By taking two steps at once, this employee has lost his chance to change before the next step is taken.
My guess is the company will take a step back at the local level hearing and reduce discharge to a suspension.
They're probably coming over the top in hopes of making the impression that didn't take in the warning letter phase.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Agreed.
Problem being, as you alluded, progressive dissapline is designed to affectuate a change in behavior.
By taking two steps at once, this employee has lost his chance to change before the next step is taken.
My guess is the company will take a step back at the local level hearing and reduce discharge to a suspension.
They're probably coming over the top in hopes of making the impression that didn't take in the warning letter phase.

Another way to look at this is, if a cop gives you a ticket, as you make your 10 mile commute from work, for a broken tail light, will you keep getting tickets everytime another cop sees your broken tail light? I would think that just waving the original ticket would prevent this on this day and probably the next as you're on your way to get said light fixed. My point is, change takes time to happen. I used to drive with the bulkhead door open from my first through my last stop, sometimes leaving it open through lunch. I have since seen the error of my ways, but it took many talk to's by other driver's before I got the big picture.

 

[raceanoncr]

My point is, change takes time to happen. I used to drive with the bulkhead door open from my first through my last stop, sometimes leaving it open through lunch. I have since seen the error of my ways, but it took many talk to's by other driver's before I got the big picture.

More on this "My point is"...and in agreement with you, Steve, is this:

How about working as directed? Duh! "Well, it takes too much time!!!" So? Your point is? You're going to get fired for "working as directed"? I ain't seen it happen yet.

What a concept!!

 

[stevetheupsguy]

More on this "My point is"...and in agreement with you, Steve, is this:

How about working as directed? Duh! "Well, it takes too much time!!!" So? Your point is? You're going to get fired for "working as directed"? I ain't seen it happen yet.

What a concept!!

I'm with you. I'm one of those guys that will go against the grain because I have "authority issues", but I'm learning and this much I have learned, that although you may be on the radar for taking longer, you won't be fired for adhering to the rules.

 

[Dis-organized Labor]

Agreed.
Problem being, as you alluded, progressive dissapline is designed to affectuate a change in behavior.
By taking two steps at once, this employee has lost his chance to change before the next step is taken.
My guess is the company will take a step back at the local level hearing and reduce discharge to a suspension.
They're probably coming over the top in hopes of making the impression that didn't take in the warning letter phase.

You're right. There are those guys that such "authority issues" or the "I'm smarter than you" attitude. The discipline is handed out as an example of what could be.
I love the "work as directed" mentality that I read here. I wish there was more of it where I am.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Agreed.
Problem being, as you alluded, progressive dissapline is designed to affectuate a change in behavior.
By taking two steps at once, this employee has lost his chance to change before the next step is taken.
My guess is the company will take a step back at the local level hearing and reduce discharge to a suspension.
They're probably coming over the top in hopes of making the impression that didn't take in the warning letter phase.

then why even have rules{prog.discp} if they are not going to abide by them?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

then why even have rules{prog.discp} if they are not going to abide by them?

Doesn't this work both ways? In other words, if you are disciplined and then are caught not once, but twice, repeating that which you were disciplined for in the first place, wouldn't that be considered not abiding by the rules?

BTW, I agree that a suspension and termination given on the same day is inappropriate. As bubblehead said, the termination will most likely get reduced to a suspension, time served, back to work.

 

[User Name]

I don't understand the whole leaving the bulk head door open. Really, is it that hard to get up and put the key in the door and open it? I wear the belt and have the door closed at all times and don't know why guys don't do it. What was the reason for doing this? How much time can it save?

Also, when was the last time a driver was terminated for not making numbers?

 

[brownrodster]

I don't understand the whole leaving the bulk head door open. Really, is it that hard to get up and put the key in the door and open it?

It's probably not the only corner the driver is cutting. I agree with you. Simply leaving the bulkhead door hopen won't save you a whole lot of time. But if you combine that action with 50 other time saving actions it adds up to quite a bit over the day.

I prefer to use my dashboard as shelf 1 over driving around with my bulk head door open

 

[MC4YOU2]

While it is hard to imagine the thinking behind any blatant disregard of discipline for lack of safety, it is also suspect that a driver would be targeted in such an over the top way. Wouldn't a one or three day suspension sent a serious enough message? It seems to me that this smacks of a more sinister form of "justifying my job as a UPS policeman" and also possibly just another way of payback for being viewed as a troublemaker at the center level. It's all politics. JMHO.

 

[grgrcr88]

You are correct, someone has it out for this guy and thought they could get it all done in one fail swoop!!

 

[rod]

I don't understand the whole leaving the bulk head door open. Really, is it that hard to get up and put the key in the door and open it? I wear the belt and have the door closed at all times and don't know why guys don't do it. What was the reason for doing this? How much time can it save?

Also, when was the last time a driver was terminated for not making numbers?

Bulk head doors actually shut? Must be something new

 

[brownmonster]

Bulk head doors actually shut? Must be something new

Your old bungie cord collection is no longer allowed.

 

[moreluck]

Originally Posted by rod
Bulk head doors actually shut? Must be something new

Ok, sitting at Starbucks in Kapolei last week I actually yelled at a driver to close his bulkhead door and I can't even explain the look he gave me.