Promotion from driver to FT sup.

Discussion in 'UPS Partners' started by brown2bone, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. brown2bone

    brown2bone Member

    So I am in the Supervisor pool to be promoted very soon and wanted to know advise from management on the difference between the pay of a driver and ft sup. I have been with company 12 years have a bachelors in business and make $83k/yr as a driver. I know a family plan Insurrance will now cost me roughly$5k/yr as well so I am taking this into consideration. I am hoping that I will get paid at least the same plus the 5k I will be paying for insurance all this NOT including the stock bonus at the end of year.

    Is this realistic?
    Also I know that there's probably only one time to negotiate Salary and that's your initial promotion from hourly to management. Is their initial offer negotiable??
    I have heard they will match your salary and pay just a little more??? Any input here would be nice.

    I know managers and supervisors never talk real numbers because everyone gets paid differently and hey are not to disclose what they make. But I'm looking for some general ideas. Thank you.
  2. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Our most recent retiree was an on-car who drove for 15 years. When he made the move he initially lost about 20% but more than made up for that with stock options and pay increases over the years.
  3. Kicked Your Dog

    Kicked Your Dog 23 Year Upser/SoCal Feeder

    In 2004, I was taken to dinner and received my partnership offer. The only thing negotiable is wether or not you decide to take the offer. There are too many candidates willing to take the position, regardless of compensation, to make any negotiating worthwhile.

    For me the compensation was not worth the job. These were the facts in 2004:
    1) I'd make 80% of my topped out driver rate, broken down as 70% salary/30% stock
    2) I'd lose 1 week vacation
    3) I'd work in the same center, with drivers I'd developed friendships with, and have to regain their trust and respect
    4) I could be transferred to any operation in the district at any time
    5) If my salary was to be paid by the hour I'd realistically earn 60-70% of my topped out driver rate
    6) I'd be expected to work 11-12 hours a day

    These were just a few of the major "perks" I was presented-and I was a highly rated candidate, due to my education. Frankly, my wife said she'd have left me had I accepted this offer and the inevitable stress I would bring home again (I had once been a pt supv and earned the opportunity to drive). Paid by the hour, the drivers are the highest paid classification up until the DM level. Sure, management gets stock options, but if every driver that worked a 47.5 to 50 hour week, buys the same $-value in shares and/or contributes to their 401k, they still come out ahead. As a driver I'll have a fabulous nest egg at retirement, I have more vacation time and sick time, and I earn as much now, as my manager, in total compensation. By the end of this contract I'll earn considerably more than a manager. I'm in my 30's, he's 50. That's not to mention feeder guys who clear 120k. Without being too disrespectful to your decision, the only reason you should even consider management is if driving is too hard for you. Not everyone can work in beast mode and hump day in and out, in weather and climate. But, that's why we're a skilled trade and earn the compensation we do. This is why management tries to make our jobs harder than they need to be. "Haters gonna hate."
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  4. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Now that you got the low down from the "Hater", it is a tough decision. His points are pretty much on except as I offer my observations below.

    Yes, you can negotiate ... I have seen new promotees get 5% or more by negotiating. Never saw 10%.
    There are very few internal (Drivers) candidates who are willing to take the leap.
    The 5,000 for insurance is at your current age. If prescription drugs become an issue as you age, you can easily pay 5K - 10K additional per year. There is no cap limit on management prescriptions but it maxes at $300 per Rx filled.
    A center manager total compensation is more like $120K including MIP award.
    Supervisors and center manager do not get Stock Options. They get a bonus in the form of stock of which 50% is delayed for 5 years. If the stock goes up in price after 5 years, this can be a nice "bump" in bonus.
    Make sure you will get a pension in management ( I don't think you do).
    Consider how marketable your bachelor's degree is.
    Liberal arts degree equals ZERO, finance and technical degrees equals a plus.
    Obviously, as a driver, you are not utilizing the investment in that degree whether for money or for type of career.

    The aging and "beast of burden" aspect of the driver job is definitely a consideration but the stress and BS in management takes it's toll as well.
    The fact that you are in supervision with UPS will most likely give you better opportunity to get a comparable job outside UPS. Most UPS management people I know that have left (with a degree) make more than they did at UPS.
    Drivers typically do not , losing half their pay typically. The UPS Package Driver is not a Skilled Trade as suggested by Hater above. It is an unskilled manual labor job done at a very fast pace to justify the high compensation. If you leave UPS as a driver, your chance of getting job making caomparable is very slim.
    Maybe in California or NYC but not in most of America.

    2004 was dire period to be moving into management at UPS.
    Opportunities will be increasing over the next 5 - 10 years.

    Good luck with your choice.
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  5. Kicked Your Dog

    Kicked Your Dog 23 Year Upser/SoCal Feeder

    Just wanted to clarify-Hoaxster...

    1) "Haters" refers to the management resentment towards the hourlies that make more money than them. I'm happy, no hate here, I'm paid for all my time.

    2) We are a skilled position due to the dot certifications and safe driving methods we are required to master, especially in feeder and metro areas, otherwise we are a danger to the public. We also acknowledge explicit safe driving requirements that affect our employment with ups.

    3) 2004 was a boom time for on road supervision, as the economy was in full expansion due to home construction and the housing bubble. It was hard to find people who didn't have excess cash on hand and soaring incomes due to home equity and real estate investments. Routes and centers where growing at a record clip and ups technology was not a substitute for supervisors 10 years ago.

    Now, not 2004, is the time to be skeptical that one is getting the best management offer. There is an extremely large pool of workers who have struggled over the past 6 years and would be happy to earn a ups mgmt income. I would assume you either don't know your value, if you're a driver, or you're in management and are trying to pass around the kool aid. Either way, I am speaking from my personal experience 10 years ago. I am more than positive that the compensation ratios I gave have not changed. But then again, Corporate really puts a huge premium on their mgmt compensation package. If they didn't we'd have a mgmt group of powerless puppets lacking foresight and vision, resulting in thousands of service failures and a lacking devotion to service. Oh, wait...
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  6. cosmo1

    cosmo1 Now, a low life jack wagon, and still loving it.

    Who's making popcorn?:wink2:
  7. rod

    rod retired and happy

    Don't forget the pain you have to endure to have that hardware attached to your arms legs and head so that upper management can attach the strings to operate you.
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  8. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    We pretty much agree on everything except the UPS Driver being a Skilled Trade job.
    If it was, then drivers doing the same thing outside UPS would be making $90,000 / year plus extremely good benefits worth another $45,000.
    Simple answer is they don't.
    UPS Drivers make the money they do because of the power of collective organization and consequent collective bargaining.
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  9. blkmamba

    blkmamba Active Member

    I don't think anyone outside of ups would consider it a skilled job
  10. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    The KYD is the first person on BC or in UPS I have heard say a UPS Package Car Driver is a Skilled Trade.
    When I read it, I was like WTF?
  11. blkmamba

    blkmamba Active Member

    Yep, when I left UPS and was in interviews the words "supervisor at ups" on a resume carried a lot of weight. I don't think the words driver or loader would have meant as much.
  12. Alexcross774

    Alexcross774 Spinning my wheels.

    You can crunch the numbers, look at all the benefits vs hours ect ect. The bottom line is what do you want to do? If you can picture yourself in 10 years driving and being satisfied with all the elements that go with it, keep driving. If not, then think it over. But what ever you decide, own it. Don't look back and "what if" the decision to death. Don't be bitter if people you started with are retiring before you, and don't forget what it took to do the job you left.
  13. 728ups

    728ups offending people on the internet since 1995

    I will admit to being quite shocked that the total compensation for a center manager is that low considering the hours and responsibility that position entails.
  14. cosmo1

    cosmo1 Now, a low life jack wagon, and still loving it.

    That is the source of the popcorn remark.

    You, a driver???????:crazy:
  15. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    That does not include Healthcare or pension.
    I specifically did not include pension since new management does not get pension and the audience is going to be a new management person.

    Total compensation for a center manager aged 45 -55 that's been in management 15 years or more is in the range of $150 - 160k.
  16. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    There are those within UPS on both sides of the aisle who would agree.
  17. upschuck

    upschuck Well-Known Member

    I believe that employers would love to have the work ethic that most drivers have, and that might overcome some of the lacked skills of the actual job. They know the driver will get the job done.
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  18. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    The term used by KYD and the one in question is "Skilled Trade" which has specific meaning and nothing to do with skilled job.
    I think any job at UPS could be considered a skilled job.
    The UPS Package Car Driver is NOT a Skilled Trade.
  19. blkmamba

    blkmamba Active Member

    Upon researching more about "skilled trades", being a window cleaner can be considered a skilled trade and if that is the case than by know means can we leave out the UPS driver. Navigating traffic, entering information to the diad, dealing with people would certainly take a certain skill, much more than washing and cleaning windows.
  20. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Well ... if that low a threshold of credibility is accepted, then the term has no meaning.

    When I think of a Skilled Trade, I think of a certified and licensed professional such as a plumber or electrician.