Regal Cinema's new "security policy"

[soberups]

@soberups, Wouldn't carrying a firearm into an establishment that has a sign posted prohibiting it make you a criminal?

No, at least not in Oregon. It is only a crime if an employee sees the gun and asks you to leave and you refuse to do so, at that point you are committing criminal trespassing. The only circumstances under which the theater staff would ever see my gun are circumstances in which I will be wanting to get the hell out of there anyway, which makes their policy a moot point.

 

[Rainman]

The policy is a joke, and if anyone feels more secure because of it, they're an idiot. My point is that Wally Cox and his .44 Magnum penis substitute are probably more of a threat than you imagine. Because Wally wants so much to be a real man, he secretly hopes he'll have to use his Magnum someday. And when he does, he'll probably shoot the person next to him instead of the perp.

If you believe that , you are sadly mistaken. If I shot a person committing a crime, it's a good chance I would be arrested and/or sued. Shooting someone is a last resort action for anyone with half a brain. It's not something that any reasonable person would take on lightly.

 

[Sportello]

They're open for business to the public. Until they ask you to leave, you're not trespassing.

Laws in Oregon may differ from other places. I honestly don't know.

edit: Thanks for clarifying, sober!

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Trespass laws. They could make you leave if they found out about it, but as long as you comply at that point then no crime has been committed.

It's illegal here to carry where the owner has placed a sign banning guns.
Although the 4th amendment is always in play too.

 

[soberups]

I was asking a question. All I could quickly find on Oregon law was this:

Q. Are there places I can't carry my handgun concealed?
A. Yes. There are several locations in which you cannot carry a firearm, even with a concealed handgun license, including:

• Any federal facility -- federal courthouses, social security offices, secured areas of airports, airplanes.
• Posted private property where the owner prohibits firearms possession, and others.
• Many private businesses have conditions regarding the possession of firearms on their premises. If you violate these conditions you could, under certain circumstances, be subject to arrest under Oregon trespass laws, in which case, if convicted, your concealed handgun licensee would be seized and/or revoked.
• National parks marked or posted with signs prohibiting all firearms.
• Indian reservations or property -- you may not carry a firearm concealed without the written permission of the tribal judge; this may also apply to certain casinos on tribal lands.
• Courts -- in a courtroom, jury room, judge's chambers, or adjacent areas that the presiding judge determines should be free of firearms to ensure the safety of litigants, court personnel witnesses, and others.

The key phrases in this part of the statute are "you could under certain circumstances" and "Oregon trespass laws."

Those circumstances require that you refuse to leave the property when asked in order to be charged with a crime under Oregon trespass laws.

The possession of a handgun on private property in violation of a posted sign prohibiting it is not a crime in and of itself, except in courthouses and Federal buildings.

Of course, these distinctions mean nothing to the criminals who are already prohibited from possessing guns and have no intention of obeying the laws in in the first place. That's why they are called "criminals."

 

[soberups]

The policy is a joke, and if anyone feels more secure because of it, they're an idiot. My point is that Wally Cox and his .44 Magnum penis substitute are probably more of a threat than you imagine. Because Wally wants so much to be a real man, he secretly hopes he'll have to use his Magnum someday. And when he does, he'll probably shoot the person next to him instead of the perp.

Your perception of the mentality of the typical concealed-carry license holder is grossly inaccurate and based upon your own prejudices rather than the facts and statistics in the 36 states that have "shall issue" permit laws or that do not require permits for concealed carry at all.

 

[mike1646]

That's why is called concealed, they don't need to see it unless you need to use it.

 

[MrFedEx]

If you believe that , you are sadly mistaken. If I shot a person committing a crime, it's a good chance I would be arrested and/or sued. Shooting someone is a last resort action for anyone with half a brain. It's not something that any reasonable person would take on lightly.

That's the problem. A lot of these folks have half a brain, and lack the skills and reasoning ability to handle a true emergency. I have a CCW, but only use it when I go hiking/fishing or in very sketchy areas. I would only shoot someone/something as an absolute last resort.

My point is that a lot of gun people I know, who are really into it, want the chance to use it someday. When you carry everywhere and don't have law enforcement type training, you're asking for a problem. Just ask George Zimmerman, and please review his post-Martin record as evidence.

 

[Nike]

Holmes got into the movie theatre via an unlocked backdoor I believe. No amount of rent a cops or policies can prevent a lapse in structural security.


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[mike1646]

Holmes left his weapons outside of a back door. He came in thru the front entrance and then got the weapons.

 

[Rainman]

That's the problem. A lot of these folks have half a brain, and lack the skills and reasoning ability to handle a true emergency. I have a CCW, but only use it when I go hiking/fishing or in very sketchy areas. I would only shoot someone/something as an absolute last resort.

My point is that a lot of gun people I know, who are really into it, want the chance to use it someday. When you carry everywhere and don't have law enforcement type training, you're asking for a problem. Just ask George Zimmerman, and please review his post-Martin record as evidence.

All of the people who I personally know who carry are normal law abiding citizens, who like you, carry for personal protection. I don't know anybody who carries looking for trouble. A lot of people who might claim to be looking for a chance to use their weapons are FOS.

There are a bunch of flakes, I agree. But they are a small minority. I think you are painting gun owners with a very wide brush and are being unfair to the vast majority by alleging that they are extremists looking for trouble.

 

[oldngray]

All of the people who I personally know who carry are normal law abiding citizens, who like you, carry for personal protection. I don't know anybody who carries looking for trouble. A lot of people who might claim to be looking for a chance to use their weapons are FOS.

There are a bunch of flakes, I agree. But they are a small minority. I think you are painting gun owners with a very wide brush and are being unfair to the vast majority by alleging that they are extremists looking for trouble.

Those flakes who want to carry to cause trouble are usually the same people who don't go through the process of getting a legal carry permit.

 

[bbsam]

So are you saying that the patrons of the theater that Holmes shot up were better off being unarmed and helpless? And since the police are supposedly the "good guys", are you saying that they should also be unarmed?

Stray bullets from a good guy are bad. Aimed bullets from a bad guy are worse.

If your bullet in a dark theater kills my eight year old daughter, I am no more sympathetic than if Holmes' bullet does. If a cops bullet kills her I'm still PO'd and the officer, chief, and local officials will be made to pay for their recklessness.

Are you ready to take similar responsibility?

 

[Sportello]

I have no problem with folks who want to carry a firearm.

That being said, I think crossfire in a darkened movie theater would be absolutely nuts.

 

[soberups]

I have no problem with folks who want to carry a firearm.

That being said, I think crossfire in a darkened movie theater would be absolutely nuts.

So is a lunatic walking in there with an AR-15 and a premeditated intention to commit mass murder. In that scenario I would say that the risk of a crossfire or hitting an innocent person is still a better choice than doing nothing and letting him hose down the entire theater until he runs out of ammo.

 

[bbsam]

So is a lunatic walking in there with an AR-15 and a premeditated intention to commit mass murder. In that scenario I would say that the risk of a crossfire or hitting an innocent person is still a better choice than doing nothing and letting him hose down the entire theater until he runs out of ammo.

No offense, but I'm glad it's not up to you.

 

[soberups]

If your bullet in a dark theater kills my eight year old daughter, I am no more sympathetic than if Holmes' bullet does. If a cops bullet kills her I'm still PO'd and the officer, chief, and local officials will be made to pay for their recklessness.

Are you ready to take similar responsibility?

So if your daughter is trapped beneath a wrecked car that is starting to burn, and I come along and do my best to lift the car up enough for her to crawl out but wind up losing my grip...is it my fault if she gets crushed? Or do you blame the drunk driver who caused the accident in the first place?

 

[soberups]

No offense, but I'm glad it's not up to you.

And I pray that it never is.

I guess I am not understanding why you think it would preferable to allow a mass murderer to kill as many people as he feels like without even trying to fight back.

If your answer is that civilians are not adequately trained in the use of lethal force and that only the police should be trusted to make life or death decisions with guns, you might consider reading up on recent history involving the police use of lethal force against unarmed civilians before forming an opinion on the matter.

 

[moreluck]

Easy solution....just rent a Red Box movie and stay home and eat microwave popcorn!!

 

[mike1646]

Who said anything about shooting into the darkness? I wouldn't shoot unless I had a target. You just can't go shooting unless you know who are you shooting at.