Republicans war on unions marches forward

[vantexan]

and what happens to that ownership as unions lose all their powe over the next 15 years? What happens when nearly every state is RTW to the teamsters at UPS?I wonder if this changes 2013negotiations.

Why should anyone be forced to join a union if they don't want to? And why would anyone want to work for UPS without joining the union? The Teamsters have much more to fear from what competition with FedEx Ground will do to their bargaining power. You can't demand ever higher pay as the company's market share, and ability to pay better, decreases.

 

[vantexan]

that's what I said.

What you do behind closed doors is your business.

 

[bbsam]

What you do behind closed doors is your business.

now you sound like a Democrat.

 

[Catatonic]

now you sound like a Democrat.

Or a Libertarian

 

[bbsam]

Or a Libertarian

they don't exist.

 

[Catatonic]

they don't exist.

Why do you say that?
I was under the impression for the last 30 years that I was one.

 

[MrFedEx]

Why do you say that?
I was under the impression for the last 30 years that I was one.

He means that Libertarians are pointless, as in they might as well not exist. Just ask Ron Paul. Ooops....he vanished!

 

[Catatonic]

He means that Libertarians are pointless, as in they might as well not exist. Just ask Ron Paul. Ooops....he vanished!

And Rand Paul pops up ... he is a lot more pragmatic.
I'll be pulling for him next time.

 

[MrFedEx]

Why should anyone be forced to join a union if they don't want to? And why would anyone want to work for UPS without joining the union? The Teamsters have much more to fear from what competition with FedEx Ground will do to their bargaining power. You can't demand ever higher pay as the company's market share, and ability to pay better, decreases.

RTW means the Right To Work For Less Money. Why else would Republicans push for it? It's "good for business" in the sense that it drives wages down and negates union power. These are both goals of pro-Big Business conservatives. The problem is that instead of creating $20-$30 perhour jobs with true middle class wages, you get $14-$16 per hour jobs that keep people just scraping by, unable to really improve the economy by buying big ticket items like appliances, cars, and homes.

There isn't any coincidence that a lot of big manufacturers are moving into low-wage, RTW states because they know that workers will find it very difficult to organize. Add-in the tax incentives and other corporate giveaways, and it's Nirvana for Big Business. This is corporate welfare of the worst kind because each job "created' ends-up costing tens of thousands of dollars. What hypocrisy.

Governor Snyder is nothing but a job destroyer financed by Big Business interests who stand to benefit from RTW legislation.

 

[59 Dano]

And Rand Paul pops up ... he is a lot more pragmatic.
I'll be pulling for him next time.

The old man will make some really great points. Then he makes some that aren't so great. Then he'll get into some convoluted wonky crap that takes too long and accomplishes nothing, usually involving the Federal Reserve.

Agreed, Rand is a breath of fresh air.

 

[59 Dano]

RTW means the Right To Work For Less Money. Why else would Republicans push for it? It's "good for business" in the sense that it drives wages down and negates union power. These are both goals of pro-Big Business conservatives. The problem is that instead of creating $20-$30 perhour jobs with true middle class wages, you get $14-$16 per hour jobs that keep people just scraping by, unable to really improve the economy by buying big ticket items like appliances, cars, and homes.

There isn't any coincidence that a lot of big manufacturers are moving into low-wage, RTW states because they know that workers will find it very difficult to organize.

RTW states have to follow the same federal laws regarding union organizing as non-RTW states. RTW status doesn't make it any easier or harder to organize. What it does is protect employees from compulsory participation and support of labor unions.

Don't get upset about companies moving to RTW states. The labor force in those states is just as capable and talented as the labor force in non-RTW states and the cost of living (and doing business) is often significantly lower. The pay for those jobs in RTW states is not bad and it typically is much, MUCH better than the other available options.

 

[vantexan]

RTW means the Right To Work For Less Money. Why else would Republicans push for it? It's "good for business" in the sense that it drives wages down and negates union power. These are both goals of pro-Big Business conservatives. The problem is that instead of creating $20-$30 perhour jobs with true middle class wages, you get $14-$16 per hour jobs that keep people just scraping by, unable to really improve the economy by buying big ticket items like appliances, cars, and homes.

There isn't any coincidence that a lot of big manufacturers are moving into low-wage, RTW states because they know that workers will find it very difficult to organize. Add-in the tax incentives and other corporate giveaways, and it's Nirvana for Big Business. This is corporate welfare of the worst kind because each job "created' ends-up costing tens of thousands of dollars. What hypocrisy.

Governor Snyder is nothing but a job destroyer financed by Big Business interests who stand to benefit from RTW legislation.

It's about attracting new business and business owners are going to move their companies and jobs into right to work states. Doesn't matter if your state is pro union if there aren't enough jobs and Michigan is harder hit than most.

 

[MrFedEx]

It's about attracting new business and business owners are going to move their companies and jobs into right to work states. Doesn't matter if your state is pro union if there aren't enough jobs and Michigan is harder hit than most.

Sure. Snyder will offer tax breaks and land deals to attract the fat cats who helped put him into office. They will pay sub-standard wages, which is they put Snyder into office. Perhaps Mr. Snyder has invested in some worthless land which will now get freeway on and off-ramps and become a new assembly location for a foreign vehicle manufacturer.

Republicans are so corrupt.

 

[MrFedEx]

RTW states have to follow the same federal laws regarding union organizing as non-RTW states. RTW status doesn't make it any easier or harder to organize. What it does is protect employees from compulsory participation and support of labor unions.

Don't get upset about companies moving to RTW states. The labor force in those states is just as capable and talented as the labor force in non-RTW states and the cost of living (and doing business) is often significantly lower. The pay for those jobs in RTW states is not bad and it typically is much, MUCH better than the other available options.

Blah, blah, blah KILL UNIONS, blah, blah, blah, DECREASE WAGES, blah, blah, blah, CREATE MORE CRUMMY JOBS.

 

[Catatonic]

Blah, blah, blah KILL UNIONS, blah, blah, blah, DECREASE WAGES, blah, blah, blah, CREATE MORE CRUMMY JOBS.

Did you ever notice your replies are rather blah?

 

[MrFedEx]

Did you ever notice your replies are rather blah?

Yes. Thank you for noticing.

 

[59 Dano]

It's about attracting new business and business owners are going to move their companies and jobs into right to work states. Doesn't matter if your state is pro union if there aren't enough jobs and Michigan is harder hit than most.

Tennessee, Kentucky, and Alabama has seen a virtual explosion in auto plant openings in the past 10 or 20 years. That trend is growing in other southern states, too. There are 101 things I don't like about living and working in the south but it is the future of domestic manufacturing. It is easier to start fresh down here than it is to break all of the old habits of the north.

 

[59 Dano]

Sure. Snyder will offer tax breaks and land deals to attract the fat cats who helped put him into office. They will pay sub-standard wages, which is they put Snyder into office. Perhaps Mr. Snyder has invested in some worthless land which will now get freeway on and off-ramps and become a new assembly location for a foreign vehicle manufacturer.

Hey, foreign car plants are really popular here in the south. If they don't want those factories up there, we've got plenty of room for them down here.

 

[Catatonic]

Tennessee, Kentucky, and Alabama has seen a virtual explosion in auto plant openings in the past 10 or 20 years. That trend is growing in other southern states, too. There are 101 things I don't like about living and working in the south but it is the future of domestic manufacturing. It is easier to start fresh down here than it is to break all of the old habits of the north.

Okay, other than bugs, humidity and hot summers, what's not to like?

Many businesses are moving to the South because of more productive and happier workers, good weather, less upkeep on facilities and vehicles, less taxes, less regulation, etc

What can you add to the two points above?

 

[MrFedEx]

Tennessee, Kentucky, and Alabama has seen a virtual explosion in auto plant openings in the past 10 or 20 years. That trend is growing in other southern states, too. There are 101 things I don't like about living and working in the south but it is the future of domestic manufacturing. It is easier to start fresh down here than it is to break all of the old habits of the north.

Yep, and workers in those plants make about half of what a union worker would. RTW creates RTW companies like FedEx, where the employer holds all the cards and the employees have no bargaining power to increase their wages. Good for the company, bad for the workers. The old habits of the North are union labor and high wages.

Mr. Genius, why oh why do all of those auto plants locate in the South and Mid-South? It's because all of the advantages go to them in a RTW state, and like I said before, in many cases, each of the jobs created costs more than it is worth. If BMW, Nissan, and the rest didn't have a fistful of breaks, they'd have never moved here. Maybe they need to pull their own weight, pay what they should in property and other taxes, and do business on alevel playing field?