Ron Paul and the risks of being uninsured hit close to home!

[klein]

So, Unemployment Insurance is a forced federal collection, and Obamacare is forced federally too, hmmm, so tell me the difference please.

 

[moreluck]

So, Unemployment Insurance is a forced federal collection, and Obamacare is forced federally too, hmmm, so tell me the difference please.

Here, read it yourself............

http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/unemploy/uifactsheet.asp

 

[The Other Side]

Yes, STATE....but Obamacare is FEDERAL.......like i told your 'grasshopper', he needs to know the difference between state & Federal!!!

Hmm, funny, in one sentence you all claim that goverment is the state or feds, I find it interesting how you separate the two when its convenient.

The State is the Goverment, MORELUCK, of the state. That means the goverment CAN FORCE you to buy something you dont want. I havent been in an accident since I was 18 yrs old, and I am 52 now, but ive been forced to pay for a service by the goverment for 34 years that I have NEVER used.

I dont think im going to crash my Harley, My Ford Flex or my Ford F150, yet im being forced to do so. I cant register any of these vehicles without proof of insurance nor can I renew my license without proof of insurance that I am forced to buy.

Why would you support protecting a bunch of metal instead of protecting live human beings is beyond comprehension. You yourself are sick (so you said) and if you didnt have the benefit of insurance, where would you be? Did you know 30 years ago you would be ill?

Life happens, and people have no idea when they are going to be sick or hurt so bad they will be in a hospital for years.

As a country, we need to insure that all people are insured and out of bankruptcy court.

Peace.

 

[moreluck]

You are being forced to get ins by the state of CA. It's illegal to drive without it. Barack Obama doesn't force you to get car ins.....he will however force you to get Obamacare. If you don't see the difference than you are beyond understanding.

 

[moreluck]

"As a country, we need to insure that all people are insured and out of bankruptcy court......." (tos)

Then by all means insure those that aren't presently insured......that's not 100% of America!! Obamacare is OVERKILL !!

 

[klein]

I won't read it !
Most of the rest of the world has National Healthcare, but we aren't forced to pay insurance companies, but more taxes instead.
And, I don't believe paying more on taxes for a safety net is unconstitutional, not even in the most democratic country in the world, which is Switzerland, btw !

Face it, every citizen from any country will sooner or later visit a doctor or even a hospital.
In the US is free for some, (freeloaders, as trinkle said), but in 180 other countries it's just simply paid for by collecting more taxes from everyone !
And not just from income taxes, but also from so called sinn items, such as alcohol, cigs, and even junk food.
Even gambling pays for some of healthcare expentures.

 

[The Other Side]

You are being forced to get ins by the state of CA. It's illegal to drive without it. Barack Obama doesn't force you to get car ins.....he will however force you to get Obamacare. If you don't see the difference than you are beyond understanding.

No, i think its YOU that needs to clarify your understanding. Goverment has many ranks. There is federal, state, local and municipalities. These are ALL GOVERMENT moreluck. Each of these goverment bodies makes laws and policies for its people.

The State goverment forcing me to BUY car insurance against my will or home owners insurance against my will is a violation of the consitution if we accept your argument that health care in the form of the health reform act is a violation of the constitution.

We all use the same constitution moreluck. There isnt a separate document for states.

As Klein stated, deductions out of my paycheck for things I dont want or need should be an OPTION, not forced upon me by the goverment if we accept your argument. Why take out SS and Disability out of my check if I dont plan on being injured? or I invest privately in my retirement? Why should I be FORCED by the goverment to pay for these things?

They should be ruled unconstitutional as well if we accept your argument on health care.

If the supreme court rules that the "goverment" (which will include, fed, state, local) cannot force you to buy a service, then there will be a rush to force all the laws for car insurance, and home insurance out the window.

Then where would you be? Sitting in your foreign car waiting to be creamed by some uninsured driver?

You cant have it both ways moreluck. Goverment is goverment.

There is no separation, except in the political arena of nonsense.

peace.

 

[klein]

Try taking off you license plate next time your in Nevada, or even come to Canada without one.
You won't drive far !

For me , thats closer to federal law then any other insurance !

You can drive here with no unemploymnt insurance, or no health insurance - no one would give a damn.

 

[moreluck]

Federal and State are as separate as church & state.................Just because you put the word government afte them does not make them the same.if you don't see that, then I'm not curing blindness and you can keep getting your education from your Canadian buddy, eh?

 

[moreluck]

Try taking off you license plate next time your in Nevada, or even come to Canada without one.
You won't drive far !

For me , thats closer to federal law then any other insurance !

You can drive here with no unemploymnt insurance, or no health insurance - no one would give a damn.

How would taking my license plate off in NV. have anything to do with Ron Paul and being medically uninsured? The plate is different from the ins and from the driver's license. They're 3 different things and you talk as if it's one thing. My plate stays with the car no matter where I drive.

 

[klein]

Can't get a plate without insurance, though !

 

[moreluck]

True, but people get ins., get their plate and then cancel the ins.................then they drive illegally hoping they never get in an accident. If you're a bad luck person, that's the kind of driver that will crash into you.

 

[trplnkl]

This has be one of your best attempts at a spin because I know you aren't this stupid. There is a CLEAR difference between the federal government and the state governments.

No, i think its YOU that needs to clarify your understanding. Goverment has many ranks. There is federal, state, local and municipalities. These are ALL GOVERMENT moreluck. Each of these goverment bodies makes laws and policies for its people.

The State goverment forcing me to BUY car insurance against my will or home owners insurance against my will is a violation of the consitution if we accept your argument that health care in the form of the health reform act is a violation of the constitution.
Wrong.

We all use the same constitution moreluck. There isnt a separate document for states.
True, but the document provides for clear separation of rights between the federal gov and the state gov. Article 1. sec 8 lays out the rights of the federal government (congress) and the right to force citizens to purchase insurance dang sure isn't one of them.

As Klein stated, deductions out of my paycheck for things I dont want or need should be an OPTION, not forced upon me by the goverment if we accept your argument. Why take out SS and Disability out of my check if I dont plan on being injured? or I invest privately in my retirement? Why should I be FORCED by the goverment to pay for these things?

It's call the Social Security Tax, the federal government is given the right to access taxes per Art.1, sec 8.

They should be ruled unconstitutional as well if we accept your argument on health care.

Health care purchases and taxes ...two different situations.

If the supreme court rules that the "goverment" (which will include, fed, state, local) cannot force you to buy a service, then there will be a rush to force all the laws for car insurance, and home insurance out the window.

I really doubt any of us will see a SCotUS decission ever be so vague as to not point out which they are talking about, they are aware of art.1, sec. 8.

Then where would you be? Sitting in your foreign car waiting to be creamed by some uninsured driver?

Sounds to me that's an everyday occurrence with all the illegal, uninsured, unlicensed aliens on california roads. I know it's a concern in Texas.

You cant have it both ways moreluck. Goverment is goverment.

There is no separation, except in the political arena of nonsense.
And the Constitution.

peace.

 

[klein]

Well, trinkle, can't argue with you, but if you really think the US is better off with more then 1/4 of it's population not being health insured , but still get free ER treatment, then so be it.

It's YOU that then has to pay for those "free loaders" and 4times as much as just seeing a physician !

In numbers : The healthcare costs for YOU, is double, since you only see a doctor when needed, and the 25% uninsured see the ER which is 4 times more expensive.

That equals out to 25% of uninsured , (getting free ER service), to the cost of 100% of those that have insurance and are able to see a doctors office.

 

[trplnkl]

So, Unemployment Insurance is a forced federal collection, and Obamacare is forced federally too, hmmm, so tell me the difference please.

No, unemployment is not a federal forced collection from the citizens. Companies are forced to provide (by the states ) unemployment insurance to protect their workers. This a TAX, not a forced purchase of insurance.

 

[trplnkl]

Well, trinkle, can't argue with you, but if you really think the US is better off with more then 1/4 of it's population not being health insured , but still get free ER treatment, then so be it.

It's YOU that then has to pay for those "free loaders" and 4times as much as just seeing a physician !

Hey Kleenex, I never said the US was better off either way. What I did say is the personally responsible hard working American is going to pay for the free loaders either way.

 

[over9five]

Well, trinkle, can't argue with you, but if you really think the US is better off with more then 1/4 of it's population not being health insured , but still get free ER treatment, then so be it.

I think you missed his point, Trp. He said:

The USA sucks.

 

[trplnkl]

I think you missed his point, Trp. He said:

The USA sucks.

You're right Over, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[klein]

Hey Kleenex, I never said the US was better off either way. What I did say is the personally responsible hard working American is going to pay for the free loaders either way.

But, wouldn't it be cheaper to let the "free loader" go see a doctor for 1/4 of the price then go to the ER at a cost of ~$275 just to check in ?

 

[moreluck]

Well, trinkle, can't argue with you, but if you really think the US is better off with more then 1/4 of it's population not being health insured , but still get free ER treatment, then so be it.

It's YOU that then has to pay for those "free loaders" and 4times as much as just seeing a physician !

In numbers : The healthcare costs for YOU, is double, since you only see a doctor when needed, and the 25% uninsured see the ER which is 4 times more expensive.

That equals out to 25% of uninsured , (getting free ER service), to the cost of 100% of those that have insurance and are able to see a doctors office.

Believe me, we want healthcare reform.......that would take care of the uninsured too...... but not 100% of America needs forced healthcare.. Remember Obama's words, "If you like your healthcare you can keep it." ??? Big Lie. We want the uninsured addressed, but leave the rest of us alone!! He went overboard and the cost of it is fantazmical!!!