AETNA's Effect on our 2013 Contract Negotiations

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
You guys are like the people that defend our president by saying "He's not a socialist" & then say "Whats wrong with socialism anyway?". If you guys like socialism, take your downgraded private insurance from UPS & shut up about it. :)

LOL. You're touting your insurance, which is a form of socialism, than quickly denouncing socialism as a bad thing. "Go Miami Heat -- BOOOOOOO MIAMI SUCKS, I HATE MIAMIA --- YEAH, GO MIAMI HEAT." Certain aspects of socialism, such as heath care, aren't a bad thing. Even the most extreme socialist political leaders in the USA would be considered extremely conservative by European standards.......
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
You guys are like the people that defend our president by saying "He's not a socialist" & then say "Whats wrong with socialism anyway?". If you guys like socialism, take your downgraded private insurance from UPS & shut up about it. :)

See, I love how trolls always turn away from the fire and shoot in another direction. You're amusing, man.
 

Notcool

Well-Known Member
The US military is the biggest socialist program in the world paid by the American citizens. All for the
greater good of the country. At the same time our government sucks at managing anything. Government should get out of the way so individuals just like the ones that built this country can run wild again.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
The US military is the biggest socialist program in the world paid by the American citizens. All for the
greater good of the country. At the same time our government sucks at managing anything. Government should get out of the way so individuals just like the ones that built this country can run wild again.

Last year, I purchased a laptop with a 90-day warranty & it faltered after about five months. So I had to replace it, and in doing so, I had to pay about $50 for a Windows license I already had (and was barely able to use). In order to be elgible for the discount Windows price, major computer makers cannot ship a computer without an operating system -- Microsoft says this is because it encourages piracy. Meanwhile, there's no way to recover the cost of my Windows tax -- and Microsoft believes that each license should be tied to each computer, even if it lives a short life.

Even a right-wing appeals court upheld the ruling that Microsoft participated in anti-competitive, monopolistic practices. But the Bush Administration decided that placing a FireFox or Chrome browser on my computer was fair enough punishment.

Regulation is a bad, bad thing.......
 

Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
LOL. You're touting your insurance, which is a form of socialism, than quickly denouncing socialism as a bad thing. "Go Miami Heat -- BOOOOOOO MIAMI SUCKS, I HATE MIAMIA --- YEAH, GO MIAMI HEAT." Certain aspects of socialism, such as heath care, aren't a bad thing. Even the most extreme socialist political leaders in the USA would be considered extremely conservative by European standards.......


Then like I said, you should be happy to give up your UPS health insurance for Obama's socialist health plan. This is what you voted for. Stop fighting it & embrace the "Change".
 

InsideUPS

Well-Known Member
Bagels, downhillexpress, and others...

I thought UPS was self insured and had AETNA just to handle the paperwork?


The purpose of my post was strictly for the purpose of trying to understand why UPS and our Teamster negotiators are at an impasse on the healthcare issue. "wgf46" brought up the fact that UPS is self-insured....... I THANK you for that fact as I TOTALLY forgot about this as I was attempting to understand UPS's position on this issue. I brought Aetna into this conversation from a Motley Fools (investor forum) post which seemed to indicate Aetna may have had something to do with our negotiation issues. I really could care less.........whether or not insurance is a form of socialism......other than the fact of how It MAY relate to our CURRENT contract negotiations. Debating socialism ad infinitum here is NOT MY personal intention, desire, goal, etc...

So...with that said, onto additional thoughts as to why UPS is making healthcare a primary issue in these negotiations... I'm more than interested in reading your thoughts on this matter. Now thinking about the fact that UPS IS self-insured....I came across several interesting articles that may provide additional insight into understanding these negotiations.

More Work for the Self-Insured

"Even as self-insured companies comply with the new regulations, they are looking ahead to the changes that will occur in 2014, when the state exchanges come online. At that point, depending on whether they are in a high-wage or low-wage industries, companies can begin to decide whether it’s worth it to continue to provide health coverage or better to let employees move to an exchange and pay the penalty of $2,000 per employee."

SO....NO CONSPIRACY theories, NO BS, just trying to better understand this issue. It is a TOTAL SHAME that our UNION and/or UPS does not simply come out and explain the whole issue to us and allow us to decide as individuals who's BSing who. I remember during the 1997 strike when UPS came out TOO LATE with a comprehensive plan and brochure of all that they were offering us........AFTER we voted for the "Strike Authorization" vote. Keeping us in the dark about issues leads to ALL types of speculation...
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
So...with that said, onto additional thoughts as to why UPS is making healthcare a primary issue in these negotiations... I'm more than interested in reading your thoughts on this matter. Now thinking about the fact that UPS IS self-insured....I came across several interesting articles that may provide additional insight into understanding these negotiations.

More Work for the Self-Insured

"Even as self-insured companies comply with the new regulations, they are looking ahead to the changes that will occur in 2014, when the state exchanges come online. At that point, depending on whether they are in a high-wage or low-wage industries, companies can begin to decide whether it’s worth it to continue to provide health coverage or better to let employees move to an exchange and pay the penalty of $2,000 per employee."

It's been written on here before than only 60% of UPS employees are covered by the company's self-insured plan; the other 40% - mostly FTers - are not.

Here are the numbers regarding PTers in the UPS-controlled plan, per the annual letter for 2012:
- total income of 762,695,751 -> includes 19,038,679 in employee contributions
- total expenses 762,785,207 -> includes 41,561,026 in administrative, the rest are benefits paid out.

Not certain the exact number of PTers are covered by the plan, but the range of what it costs should run close to $5K-$8K. In other words, much cheaper to remain self-insured than not to.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
Exactly why we shouldnt have laws forcing us to get health insurance. This Obamacare stuff is dictatorship and socialism all wrapped into one package

Maybe we should pass laws preventing those without health insurance from accessing the system unless they can pay for it (Sorry But You're Going To Die Act). Most under/uninsured people want coverage, but either can't get it or can't afford it. And then there's those who have no problem letting the bills go into collections. Notice the disproporiate number of government subsided hospitals in the deep south ... where resentment toward ObamaCare runs strong? You have to pay for what you use, imagine that......
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
Maybe we should pass laws preventing those without health insurance from accessing the system unless they can pay for it (Sorry But You're Going To Die Act). Most under/uninsured people want coverage, but either can't get it or can't afford it. And then there's those who have no problem letting the bills go into collections. Notice the disproporiate number of government subsided hospitals in the deep south ... where resentment toward ObamaCare runs strong? You have to pay for what you use, imagine that......

Exactly... pay for what YOU use, or dont use it. I dont want to be paying for a bunch of other people's healthcare bills when I got bills of my own that I struggle paying for
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
Exactly... pay for what YOU use, or dont use it. I dont want to be paying for a bunch of other people's healthcare bills when I got bills of my own that I struggle paying for

You can be the one to tell all those kids born with HIV that "too bad, you're going to die."
 

gsalter

New Member
From InsideUPS:

'The truth of the matter is that the "Affordability Healthcare Act" is a BIPARTISAN effort that benefits BOTH sides of the political isle.'

Affordability Healthcare Act Vote in the Senate
The bill then passed by a vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two Independents voting for,
and all Republicans voting against except one Republican senator (Jim Bunning, R-Ky.) not voting.

Affordability Healthcare Act Vote in the House
The House passed the bill with a vote of 219 to 212 on March 21, 2010, with 219 Democrats voting for and
with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it.


The following day, Republicans introduced legislation to repeal the bill.

That's hardly what I would call a BIPARTISAN effort. You may think it benefits both sides of the aisle but
there are at least 217 Republicans that would disagree with you.

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
No need. Obamacare puts in place a panel of bean counting bureaucrats to decide who lives and who dies.

That's right. I have a close relative in the medical field. She has talked to doctors that say the same thing.

So many people choose to ignore or deny this.

You can make all the jokes you want about tin foil hats but it's coming folks.

God help us.
 

InsideUPS

Well-Known Member
You can be the one to tell all those kids born with HIV that "too bad, you're going to die."

Bagels, my wife has been an R.N. for the past 35 years in a variety of capacities ranging from ICU (Coronary, Neonatal, etc.) to Hospice and private duty. At no time in the past does she ever remember someone getting turned down for any type of medical condition or emergency based on lack of income or insurance. Currently, the private grade school in which she is a part-time school nurse, there are a number of families that receive free medical care along with all the free diabetic supplies that they need while other "middle class" families pay full price. The ONLY point that I am trying to make is that long before "ObamaCare", our health care system seemed to work fine. Those that were in need were cared for and others that could afford it paid for their own supplies and insurance.

I recently had a discussion with my long time trusted family physician about "ObamaCare". Tragically, he informed me that he will no longer have his own medical practice because of "ObamaCare". He stated that within the next two years, he and other physicians are being forced out of having their own practices. He said that they will ALL be working directly for the hospitals. The reason he gave is that the Medicare payments he receives is being further reduced to the point of being forced out of business. In other words, our government is significantly reducing Medicare in a variety of ways.....NONE of them good for us.

In addition to the above two sources of information, I also recently had dinner with a first year resident (M.D.) who happens to be the son of a good UPS management friend of mine. (Yes Hoaxster....he actually reports directly to Corporate.....we started loading together 34 years ago.). The information he provided me on the whole medical health care crisis was centered around "GREED" on the part of medical equipment manufactures and drug companies. His live in girlfriend happens to have a PharmD. and works for CVS. She was also at the dinner. BTW, he also informed me that NO patient that shows up at ER can be turned down for medical treatment, regardless of having insurance or not.

In Summary..... The healthcare system that we had in place before "The Affordable Health Care Act" was not broken. It may not have been perfect....but no system really is. Although I had a neutral opinion about ObamaCare before, I now have a VERY negative view of this plan now. It is putting my long time physician out of business, it is undoubtably going to adversely affect Medicare (Elderly, etc), and it is obviously affecting our current negotiations among other issues. Bottom line in my opinion..... our two party political system is TEARING this country apart. There seems to be no room for us Independents that try and understand all views and come up with reasonable compromises... I REALLY hope that you and Mr. Atomic can come with some common ground or at least at one point..... agree to disagree in an amicable manner.
 

InsideUPS

Well-Known Member
If you tell them anything else, youd be lying. Would you rather hear the truth or a sugar coated lie?


Brown_trousers.... Please click on the following Fox (Faux) News Link : (Conservative News Outlet)

Doctor's 'gutsy' move led to baby's HIV cure | Fox News

"The doctor who cured an HIV infected baby for the first time is happier talking to children than to adults and is finding all the attention since the news came out a little overwhelming.
Dr. Hannah Gay and colleagues Dr. Katherine Luzuriaga of the University of Massachusetts and Dr. Deborah Persaud of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore reported on the child's case at a medical meeting in Atlanta on Sunday.
"The breakthrough has been exciting and I'm very hopeful that that's going to lead to future research that will give us some answers," said Gay, a Mississippi pediatrician and soft-spoken mother of four adult children."

or for a more "liberal" news outlet:

HIV may be 'functionally cured' in some people - CNN.com

"(CNN) -- Evidence is mounting that it is possible to control the virus that causes AIDS with early treatment, so further therapy is not immediately needed. A recent study in the journal PLOS Pathogens reports that 14 patients with HIV, who received antiretroviral treatment within 10 weeks of infection, had their viral loads decreased so much that scientists say they are "functionally cured."
"The amazing thing is that it seems that by early treatment, we can induce this type of control of infection in 10-15% of individuals," says lead study author Asier Saez-Cirion of the Institute Pasteur in Paris."

I happen to take a special interest in infant related cancers. My daughter is a graduate student at UNC and just finished up in an HIV research lab. Her graduate research interests are in pediatric cancers. I'm also proud to say that she initiated the first Camp Kesem for children here in Ohio last year as an undergraduate at The Ohio State University. She and my wife who was a volunteer R.N. for the camp are pictured here on "Formal Day".

Camp Kesem

So....as you can see... some infants infected with HIV no longer have to face certain death.
 
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