Seniority Order

[BigUnionGuy]

@blakerben


You really need to talk with your Steward and Local BA.

Go to your next Local Union meeting and ask.

@Mugarolla has pointed out some general (well known) facts.


For example;

My Local has a (written) Local Seniority application.

Even though your situation wouldn't be contractually addressed....

For the most part, it is observed in spirit.


But, it's going to differ at every Local.

And why you can't get an affirmative answers, to satisfy you.



-Bug-

 

[BigBrown1234]

we practice, you have the right to pick your position in seniority order then you have the right to complete that original position.
If any new work arises outside of the original job assignments, then that work will be assigned in seniority order

 

[Mugarolla]

we practice, you have the right to pick your position in seniority order then you have the right to complete that original position.
If any new work arises outside of the original job assignments, then that work will be assigned in seniority order

Thanks.

I didn't want to confuse the OP and tell him it's possible for junior employees to actually get more hours than him.

Not sure how their bids work, maybe, maybe not.

Depends on their local language.

 

[22.34life]

In the southern supplement articles 48,64 gives us the right to go home we have panel decisions on it and I have personally won grievances for this.you ask for one day off unpaid to be used at ur descretion.

 

[BigBrown1234]

i use this language all the time

SECTION 11 - RECOGNITION OF SENIORITY The company recognizes that the principles of seniority will be given prime consideration in the everyday operation of the business.

 

[Mugarolla]

In the southern supplement articles 48,64 gives us the right to go home we have panel decisions on it and I have personally won grievances for this.you ask for one day off unpaid to be used at ur descretion.

One of the few supplements that specify how to handle it.

i use this language all the time

SECTION 11 - RECOGNITION OF SENIORITY The company recognizes that the principles of seniority will be given prime consideration in the everyday operation of the business.

And the Company usually does use "prime consideration to senioriy" when asking drivers if they want to go home.

Doesn't mean they have to go by seniority, though.

I agree, they usually do, unless it puts a driver out in the blind, or someone already asked if they could go home.

But they are not forced to go by seniority, with a few exceptions.

 

[BigBrown1234]

I used the argument: That I interpret the “Principals of Seniority” defined as such.

1. Seniority: a privileged position earned by reason of longer service or higher rank.


2. Principals: a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning


When negotiating working environment or settling grievances I’m very specific with the language.

I don’t know how you negotiate your working conditions but when I used this argument in the office management was not able to articulate a better answer to contradict my position.

I further responded that utilizing members to fill positions other than through “seniority” over other members could be construed as a type of favoritism or discrimination.

 

[Mugarolla]

I used the argument: That I interpret the “Principals of Seniority” defined as such.

Good argument.

The only issue is that your supplement states "will be given prime consideration"

Consideration

1. continuous and careful thought

2. a matter weighed or taken into account when formulating an opinion or plan

3. thoughtful and sympathetic regard

4. an opinion obtained by reflection

Does not mean that they will decide by seniority, but that seniority will be taken into consideration when making their decision.

when I used this argument in the office management was not able to articulate a better answer to contradict my position.

You got @TearsInRain running your center?

Anytime we can sway management into our line of thinking, whether it is correct or not, is a good day.

I further responded that utilizing members to fill positions other than through “seniority” over other members could be construed as a type of favoritism or discrimination.

We are not talking about filling positions through seniority.

We are talking about letting a high seniority bid driver take the day off and then fill his bid with a low seniority non-bid or TCD driver.

When does UPS ever worry about being accused of favoritism?

 

[BigBrown1234]

I was responding to the original post concerning the PT employee. I too am PT.

I am well known for have success in the office for the betterment of our working conditions.

I did not read the entire thread.

My management team does not like being accused of favoritism, the moral is affected in a negative way. Furthermore part time sups are not really familiar with the contract language and don't like having to go in the office to justify an action. (my particular shift is run by PT sups) My experiences are they rather avoid conflict at all cost. Furthermore our Stewards and BA communicate regularly and strongly support one another.

 

[TearsInRain]

Good argument.

The only issue is that your supplement states "will be given prime consideration"

Consideration

1. continuous and careful thought

2. a matter weighed or taken into account when formulating an opinion or plan

3. thoughtful and sympathetic regard

4. an opinion obtained by reflection

Does not mean that they will decide by seniority, but that seniority will be taken into consideration when making their decision.



You got @TearsInRain running your center?

Anytime we can sway management into our line of thinking, whether it is correct or not, is a good day.



We are not talking about filling positions through seniority.

We are talking about letting a high seniority bid driver take the day off and then fill his bid with a low seniority non-bid or TCD driver.

When does UPS ever worry about being accused of favoritism?

it's stupid to do anything outside seniority, unless its an emergency somehow

i see a lot of sups quote the "seniority to work not to go home" crap and i just shake my head

why they would want to invite drama over something so nitpicky is beyond me; regardless of what the contract says it's simple human nature to think in seniority terms like that, and it's best not to buck human nature where possible

 

[Mugarolla]

I was responding to the original post concerning the PT employee. I too am PT.

I am well known for have success in the office for the betterment of our working conditions.

I did not read the entire thread.

My management team does not like being accused of favoritism, the moral is affected in a negative way. Furthermore part time sups are not really familiar with the contract language and don't like having to go in the office to justify an action. (my particular shift is run by PT sups) My experiences are they rather avoid conflict at all cost. Furthermore our Stewards and BA communicate regularly and strongly support one another.

Keep up the good work.

 

[What The Hawk?]

I am a PT Sorter of 8 years. I work in the Oklahoma City Hub and have the highest seniority in my area. I'm having a seniority issue that my local union BA refuses to grieve for me. I have filed several grievances for the same practice, but when I called my BA to get an update, he told me that he withdrew all of them because I was wrong and he wasn't going to waste his time on it. The issue is: I have the highest seniority, but I'm being sent home against my will while people with less seniority are being allowed to stay until the end of the twilight shift. They are all PT like me. I come in 30 minutes early to set up the area and I also get 10 min for working thru break. So when it comes close to the end of the shift, I will hit 5 hours while the other sorters are about 30 minutes less. Management says they don't want to pay overtime and don't have to let me stay. I know I'm not guaranteed 5 hours or overtime. However, my understanding is that as long as all the workers hit their 3 and half, any extra work goes by seniority. And since I am being sent home early against my will when less seniority are allowed to stay, I feel that UPS is not following the seniority order. My BA also said that I am getting my extra work by coming in early and that UPS can send me home early. But isn't extra work just anything over 3 and half? And it shouldn't matter if its at the beginning or end, right?

Are you clocked in and getting paid for those 30 mins your there early for?

 

[Mugarolla]

Keep up the good work.

Because in a world outside of IE, certain things make sense.

While management won't hesitate to throw a new driver out in the blind, they may elect not to let the highest senior driver off because the newbie does not know his route, at least not yet.

My point is that the contract does not force UPS to give a day off by seniority. Most places do follow the principle, but if they do not, on occassion, there is no contractual violation.

Edit: And since ORION does not work, it won't help a newbie in the blind. Keep up the good work, Mr. IE. We would love to see more waste of money justified.

Are you clocked in and getting paid for those 30 mins your there early for?

If you look at the post, and his hours he is usually getting, he is clocked in and being paid for those 30 minutes before anyone else starts.

 

[Mugarolla]

And remember, we got onto this topic because a PT employee, who starts 30 minutes earlier than the rest of the sort, wanted UPS to send junior employees home before him, even though at this point, he already has a half hour more time than anyone else.

 

[What The Hawk?]

Sorry that doesn't make any sense. I used to show up 40 mins early, was told stop doing things to "get ready" because I'm not being paid to do that. Why would they allow one person to do that but not anybody else?

 

[Mugarolla]

Sorry that doesn't make any sense. I used to show up 40 mins early, was told stop doing things to "get ready" because I'm not being paid to do that. Why would they allow one person to do that but anybody else?

You new or what?

Most buildings have 1 or 2 people starting early to set things up.

Get the irreg carts ready, set up the small sort, get all the trailer doors open and extendos ready, etc.

He is getting paid.

 

[What The Hawk?]

You new or what?

Most buildings have 1 or 2 people starting early to set things up.

Get the irreg carts ready, set up the small sort, get all the trailer doors open and extendos ready, etc.

He is getting paid.

Been here a year. 330 start this morning and those people who start early don't get a damn thing done.

 

[Mugarolla]

Been here a year. 330 start this morning and those people who start early don't get a damn thing done.

But they are getting paid.

 

[What The Hawk?]

OP is it mandatory that you show up early? Is your posted start time 30 mins before everyone else?

 

[What The Hawk?]

But they are getting paid.

Who knows? So many of them don't.