Seniority Order

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by blakerben, Sep 11, 2017.

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  1. blakerben

    blakerben New Member

    I am a PT Sorter of 8 years. I work in the Oklahoma City Hub and have the highest seniority in my area. I'm having a seniority issue that my local union BA refuses to grieve for me. I have filed several grievances for the same practice, but when I called my BA to get an update, he told me that he withdrew all of them because I was wrong and he wasn't going to waste his time on it. The issue is: I have the highest seniority, but I'm being sent home against my will while people with less seniority are being allowed to stay until the end of the twilight shift. They are all PT like me. I come in 30 minutes early to set up the area and I also get 10 min for working thru break. So when it comes close to the end of the shift, I will hit 5 hours while the other sorters are about 30 minutes less. Management says they don't want to pay overtime and don't have to let me stay. I know I'm not guaranteed 5 hours or overtime. However, my understanding is that as long as all the workers hit their 3 and half, any extra work goes by seniority. And since I am being sent home early against my will when less seniority are allowed to stay, I feel that UPS is not following the seniority order. My BA also said that I am getting my extra work by coming in early and that UPS can send me home early. But isn't extra work just anything over 3 and half? And it shouldn't matter if its at the beginning or end, right?
     
  2. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    If the other workers are getting over 5 hours and getting OT you have an argument.


    If they aren't getting paid more hours than you you have no argument.
     
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  3. blakerben

    blakerben New Member

    So it's based off of total hours then? I guess I'm just not understanding what extra work is. I don't recall seeing it in the contract saying we had to all hit the same amount of hours, only that we are all guaranteed 3 1/2 and anything over that was given to seniority. I asked my BA that, but he couldnt me the contract language on that.
     
  4. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    Now I could be totally wrong but I believe the company has the right to use someone else who will not hit over time hours before letting you get over time. I believe I read that in another contract.

    Out west we do not get OT after 5 hours. At least where I am.

    You should put this thread in the union forum. Someone there will know your supplemental contract better.
     
  5. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    I also have been told that the company has the right to limit OT. As long as no one else on your sort is working more hours then you, I don't think you have a case.
     
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  6. In my old building workers with more seniority would come in the 30 minutes early, and would be the last ones to leave. I've never seen a more seniority worker made to leave. Your Ba is in bed with the company or only grieves when he gets paid too.
     
  7. UPS Preloader

    UPS Preloader Active Member

    In my area, everyone is guaranteed their 3.5 hours. After that everything goes by seniority. Seniority employee is entitled to the work whether it's overtime or not.
     
  8. blakerben

    blakerben New Member

    I am a PT Sorter of 8 years. I work in the Oklahoma City Hub and have the highest seniority in my area. I'm having a seniority issue that my local union BA refuses to grieve for me. I have filed several grievances for the same practice, but when I called my BA to get an update, he told me that he withdrew all of them because I was wrong and he wasn't going to waste his time on it. The issue is: I have the highest seniority, but I'm being sent home against my will while people with less seniority are being allowed to stay until the end of the twilight shift. They are all PT like me. I come in 30 minutes early to set up the area and I also get 10 min for working thru break. So when it comes close to the end of the shift, I will hit 5 hours while the other sorters are about 30 minutes less. Management says they don't want to pay overtime and don't have to let me stay. I know I'm not guaranteed 5 hours or overtime. However, my understanding is that as long as all the workers hit their 3 and half, any extra work goes by seniority. And since I am being sent home early against my will when less seniority are allowed to stay, I feel that UPS is not following the seniority order. My BA also said that I am getting my extra work by coming in early and that UPS can send me home early. But isn't extra work just anything over 3 and half? And it shouldn't matter if its at the beginning or end, right?
     
  9. tadpole

    tadpole Member

    In my opinion, you have a legitimate grievance if someone gets more hours than you. Since you started 30 minutes early, they can work others 30 minutes after you leave but no more.
     
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  10. Wally

    Wally Hailing from Parts Unknown.

    The hub is just as bad as package, too much work, too few workers.
     
  11. Karma is a bitch

    Karma is a bitch Be careful what you say

    Your business agent is corrupt.
     
  12. Inthegame

    Inthegame Well-Known Member

    5 hours - 30 minutes = 4.5 hours.
     
  13. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt


    No.... his Business Agent is correct.



    No.

    Extra work.... is work that is unplanned, or unscheduled.



    The company has a right to pay straight time vs. overtime.

    That's a long established principal. If the lower seniority employees

    (in your immediate work area) get more overall time than you....

    there's your grievance.



    -Bug-
     
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  14. DirtySouth

    DirtySouth New Member

    There are also several national arbitration/area cases further supporting this principal. We had this issue with Day Sort (S-Th) employees being allowed to work Fridays on Twilight (M-F) and the work being denied to Midnight sort (M-F) after the company had let it go on for a period of time (not long enough for a past practice.) The Night sort folks would have been getting OT vs the Day Sort folks getting straight time.

    No 6th punch language for PT'ers in the Atlantic. Grieved it and it was shot down due to the arbitration over straight rate vs OT rate. Same thing applies to feeder drivers and work (ie. doing a rail yard run) when someone is already over 8 hours(5x8's)/10 (4x10's) hours vs a qualified driver still on straight.

    The OP's business agent should be willing to sit down and explain this (while also showing them the panel/arbitration decisions) and not just blow him off, but the BA is right. Typically, although the company can do this.. we don't usually see it unless its in a smaller center.

    The key is nailing sups for working and doing wrap-up. That tends to make this problem go away.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  15. DirtySouth

    DirtySouth New Member

    His business agent is an :censored2: but not necessarily corrupt.
     
  16. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt


    Absolutely.

    15 minutes of his time, can pay huge dividends.


    Everyone has to stand for re-election.



    -Bug-
     
  17. BrownMonk

    BrownMonk Active Member

    We had some P/T preloaders make the argument that they should finish in the area they have requested(earlier start) and displace people who have not completed their regular assignment(loaders). The panel decided that the other preload employees should finish their shift but that the guy could come out and load on the belts if he wanted. He didn't want the work, he wanted the money. BTW....he would have been on O/T doing it that way and the Company had the right to do it for regular time first according to some arbitrations.
     
  18. Daf

    Daf Member

    The company has the right to try reduce overtime. However you need to find out if the lower seniority people are getting overtime. It becomes a violation if they are getting more than you.
     
  19. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt


    I wanna say "if I've seen it once, I've seen it a hundred times."

    But that would be an exaggeration. And it doesn't apply to just UPS.



    -Bug-





     
  20. box-man

    box-man New Member

    Well what about when they get everyone off the clock at 5 hours with a lot of work left and the part time sups do it so no one gets OT?