Shoulder harness seat belts, seats and jump seats safety concern called in.

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
I would much rather have a sweat stain than the stain from blood because my face just went through the windshield.


I would rather offend a customer with a sweat stain than to have my wife attend my funeral because my head was propelled thru the windshield while my jaw was driven out the back of my neck by the steering wheel.

Well, with that way of thinking lets demand that they install airbags.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Well, with that way of thinking lets demand that they install airbags.

Airbags are nice in smaller cars, but they would probably be of minimal benefit in a package car-type vehicle. They are also extremely expensive and there is no way to retrofit them.

Shoulder belts, on the other hand, add virtually nothing to the overall cost of the vehicle. They have been standard in passenger cars for several decades, and they make a huge difference in survivability for the driver. More importantly, many of the older cars we have were designed by the factory to have shoulder belts as an option. UPS simply made the business decision that the life of its employees was not worth the cost of this option, and chose instead to delete it.
 

PE Pro

Well-Known Member
As promised, I made the call to the UPS Help Line regarding UPS Package Cars without shoulder harness seat belts and high back seats and jump seats without shoulder harness seat belts and back cushions.

I have posted to my blog what transpired during the call.

A very interesting development occurred during the call. I was enlightened to the fact that the company that provides the Help Line service to UPS will accept written report documents via e-mail, fax or US mail.

Sincerely,
I
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:Give me a break! Automotive is no more honest than PE. I still recommend a fly over!
 

whiskey

Well-Known Member
The fact that lap belts are still in use puts United Parcel Service in the same company as British Petroleum. The use of lap belts is nothing short of gross safety negligence.
 

tieguy

Banned
The fact that lap belts are still in use puts United Parcel Service in the same company as British Petroleum. The use of lap belts is nothing short of gross safety negligence.

the funny thing is you say that but there are drivers here on this thread that prefer the lap belts to the shoulder harness.

At the same time while there have been some political leaders grandstanding to get their face in the papers there have been no charges of negligence brought or proven against BP. Thus in a way what your saying is ups has gotten safety awards for their lap belts.:happy-very:
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
the funny thing is you say that but there are drivers here on this thread that prefer the lap belts to the shoulder harness.

I'm sure there are also individual drivers who would prefer to not wear a belt at all...or to leave the BH door open all day...or to break the speed limit...or to take any number of unsafe or illegal shortcuts in order to be more productive.

That in no way relieves the company of the legal and moral responsibility to provide safe equipment and enforce safe work rules.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
the funny thing is you say that but there are drivers here on this thread that prefer the lap belts to the shoulder harness.

At the same time while there have been some political leaders grandstanding to get their face in the papers there have been no charges of negligence brought or proven against BP. Thus in a way what your saying is ups has gotten safety awards for their lap belts.:happy-very:

Good Lord Tie!!
Will you stop at nothing to toe the company line?
Since when does what the driver wants mean anything to management?
I'll give it to you, to compare this issue with what's happening in the Gulf is a stretch, but not by much.
In my opinion the entire oil industry should shoulder the burden, as it could have happened to any one of them.
That being said, it doesn't eliviate UPS of their negligence on this issue.
The company rhetoric, 24/7 about safety, makes the lapbelt vs. 3 point belt debate a fools persuit if you support the company, no matter what the spin or twist.
You should be embarrassed.
 

FracusBrown

Ponies and Planes
There's not much debate over whether a 3 point belt is more safe, however the risk and benefit is being grossly overstated.

It's a pretty rare occurrence that a driver is seriously injured in an accident and it's even more rare or even non-existent (never seen or heard of one in my days) that their head goes through the windshield or the skull is fractured by the steering wheel.

Ever see what holds the windshield in? Rubber. I doesn't take much to push one out (or in). Steering columns and wheels are made to break away (since the 70s) when significant force is applied.

Because of the weight (inertia) and design (high body with heavy steel frame extending outward) you are more safe in a lap belt package than you are in nearly all passenger vehicles.

Putting a three point seat belt in is kinda like putting one in an airplane. If you get into a wreck thats serious enough to need one its not going to make much difference.
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
Your concerns will be forwarded to the Safety Committee for prompt review. After 6 or 7 years of discussion about the issue, the committee will invent the Eight Keys to Avoid Splattering Your Brains On The Windshield for all employees to memorize, as well as a new acronym and a commentary to recite for the next Keter audit.

You wont ever actually get a 3 point seatbelt, but they will give you a sticker and a cookie.

you are right on, never have i seen a company that will invent so many ways to work around a problem rather than correcting it.
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
you know reading this thread made me think of an incident at work,I drive an irregg train and the other day one of the tugs where you hook the mother cart to the tug was tearing away from the tug.So i told the building saftey person about the tug,i was driving it.HER reaction was have you filled out your pre trip,now i fill out a pre/post trip everday and check off the same things everday and nothing gets fixed but on this day i had not done one.So instead of geting the tug fixed she gave a speach on how important it is to fill out your pre/post trip report.All the tugs have many problems and never get fixed,so the important thing is the paperwork not the fixing of the problem.So the pre/post trip was created to work around the problem of repairing things,the tug is still not fixed.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
you know reading this thread made me think of an incident at work,I drive an irregg train and the other day one of the tugs where you hook the mother cart to the tug was tearing away from the tug.So i told the building saftey person about the tug,i was driving it.HER reaction was have you filled out your pre trip,now i fill out a pre/post trip everday and check off the same things everday and nothing gets fixed but on this day i had not done one.So instead of geting the tug fixed she gave a speach on how important it is to fill out your pre/post trip report.All the tugs have many problems and never get fixed,so the important thing is the paperwork not the fixing of the problem.So the pre/post trip was created to work around the problem of repairing things,the tug is still not fixed.

If you feel that the equipment that you being asked to operate is unsafe and you have already written it up and it has not been repaired you have the right to refuse to operate that piece of equipment until the repair(s) have been made.

It is your responsiblity to pre/post trip any equipment that you use.
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member

Yes, YAAAAWWWNNN. Save your breath as you might need it at the end of your life. The answer is plain and simple: the package cars you speak about were manufactured in the mid 1980's and are exempt from any 3-point seat belt laws.

But, if you wish, write your congressman and he might think about UPS seatbelts when he's done working on the biggest economic crisis since the great depression, the war in Iraq, the war in Afganistan, and nation security in general.

While you're at it, please ask them to put air-bags in the package cars, that way I don't have to write my own letter if you are already writting one. Thank you in advance!

Browniehound
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
There's not much debate over whether a 3 point belt is more safe, however the risk and benefit is being grossly overstated.

It's a pretty rare occurrence that a driver is seriously injured in an accident and it's even more rare or even non-existent (never seen or heard of one in my days) that their head goes through the windshield or the skull is fractured by the steering wheel.

Ever see what holds the windshield in? Rubber. I doesn't take much to push one out (or in). Steering columns and wheels are made to break away (since the 70s) when significant force is applied.

Because of the weight (inertia) and design (high body with heavy steel frame extending outward) you are more safe in a lap belt package than you are in nearly all passenger vehicles.

Putting a three point seat belt in is kinda like putting one in an airplane. If you get into a wreck thats serious enough to need one its not going to make much difference.

I agree 100%. A poster stated that "the lack of a 3-point seatbelt is a gross negligence on the scale of BP". Wow! Who are you trying to sell that to? The BP event caused billions of dollars in damage and clean up efforts. Add the deaths of fish and other marine animals and we have a problem.

The lack of 3-point belts has caused nothing on the scale of BP? Has it? Did you really say that? I don't know, I've been at UPS for 11 years and have never heard of anyone going through the windshield.

I also have never heard about a major accident in my center of 200 drivers in 11 years. We are the safest drivers in the world! Still, it doesn't mean it won't happen, however our defensive driving skills are going to save my life more than a seatbelt will and I believe that.

I truly believe this and have already begun teaching my 15 year-old daughter the 5 seeing habits. She hates me and shrugs me off, but I told her she needs to learn them before I take her driving on her permit. If some of it sticks, I will be very happy.

Also, (I say this sarcasticaly) if you use the 5 seeing habits and 10-point commentary you will never need a seatbelt because you will never get into and accident, right??? Why even install them if the expectation is for us never to get into an accident?
 
The fact that lap belts are still in use puts United Parcel Service in the same company as British Petroleum. The use of lap belts is nothing short of gross safety negligence.

Everyone seems to complain about seat belts. I believe drivers should be protected as much as possible but, are we too hypocritical about this situation? The complaint is not about the lack of a seat belt....it is about what type is provided. Everyone posting ought to look in the mirror at themselves for putting their children on a schoolbus with no belts! Isn't it time to redirect your anger?
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
JN, the school buses here have seat belts--the kids stuff them in to the seat and don't wear them cuz it ain't cool.

I much prefer the 3 point seat belt to the lap belt except when I am pulling away from the curb and looking over my left shoulder as the belt will sometimes not give me enough slack to do so.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Everyone seems to complain about seat belts. I believe drivers should be protected as much as possible but, are we too hypocritical about this situation? The complaint is not about the lack of a seat belt....it is about what type is provided. Everyone posting ought to look in the mirror at themselves for putting their children on a schoolbus with no belts! Isn't it time to redirect your anger?
You are correct about the school buses, I've always asked why they don't have seat belts.
This answer is the same as the package cars.
The cost to retrofit all of those vehicles.
It's always about money, nothing else.
I don't think I'll redirect my anger from one issue to another, I have plenty of contempt for them both.

P.S. For all of you posters in denial, in regards to not ever hearing of somebody being hurt in your own little corner of the world due to the abscents of a 3 pt seat belt: Know that UPS will never share that info with anybody, so why would you know. 200 truck centers are big centers, but ask yourself what percentage is that when divided into 6 digits worth of package cars companywide? It's very small. Another aspect being overlooked is that the 3 pt belt also reduces the recoil from a sudden stop. So even if the windshield manages to give way, without breaking into a million pieces cutting and breaking your face and head into shreads, the recoil will send your head back with almost equal force into the stainless steel wall behind the seat. Now what's left of your head is facing concussion and additional fracture. Which brings us to the abscents of the highback seat. All of these modifications could be done for far less cost than is necessary to retrofit the same package car with telematics. Now ask yourself where this companies priorities are. To borrow a phrase from the company jargon, it's about avoidability. This is the hypocrisy that Sober and myself object to. We would much prefer to hear the truth. The company isn't concerned with making any modifications that do not show a monetary profit on some spread sheet and our safety programs are nothing more than smoke and mirrors and empty rhetoric designed to satisfy OSHA and our insurance interests.
 
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