Something new to hold us accountable for

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by FromBluetoBrown, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. So I'm loading my trucks up and the part time sup comes up to me with his clipboard and papers and asks me "Did you load any damaged packages on here today?"
    My answer "No"
    another question "Did you have to tape up any boxes before you loaded them today?"


    "OK, sign this paper saying you didn't load any damaged packages today"


    "It's something we are doing now"


    "Its part of training"

    So I signed it just to get him away from me. So I'm guessing they have some more ammo to throw at us when we screw up. Maybe since PAS has pretty much eliminated finding Airs in load they need something else they can use to rake us over the fire. Instead of "Hey you had an air in load sign this". Now it can be "You loaded 2 damaged packages yesterday here sign this".
  2. looper804

    looper804 Is it time to go home yet

    You should never sign anything without consulting woth you shop steward first.
  3. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    You do not have to sign anything. The only documents that have to be signed are the ones required by law. If it was me I would have put RTS or signed and put under protest next to it. This is not a good thing, now they can come back to you and say you lied about putting damages on the truck. Proven dishonesty is grounds for termination. Even if you didn't know they were damaged, they could still use it against you. Also, was your steward there? Next time they want you to sign request your steward be present. Anything like this can be used for disciplinary action and you have the right to have your steward present. It's your Weingarten Rights.
  4. sx2700

    sx2700 Banned

    Why can't a guy just go to work and do his job? Why do we constantly need to be inundated with BS. All I hear is numbers this and numbers that. Shut up, leave me alone, and let me do my job and maybe your numbers will get better. What a ridiculous amount of crap to put up with to have health insurance. Everybody tells me not to sign anything either, but it doesn't bother me. When they don't want me to work there anymore they'll let me know and it won't matter much what I have or have not signed.
  5. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    The only thing you sign at UPS is your paycheck... You didn not have to answer ANY of those questions or sign that paper...

    If this discussion could in any way lead to my being disciplined or terminated, or affect my personal working conditions, I request that my union representative, officer, or steward be present at the meeting.

    Without representation, I choose not to answer any question.

    “This is my right under a U.S. Supreme Court decision called Weingarten.”
  6. Forty6and2

    Forty6and2 I'm Broken

    any type of "missed revenue" that can be blamed on a preloader CAN and WILL be blamed on said preloader.

    last friday morning when i was loading trucks, my p/t supervisor told me i had one misload on x car from the previous day. she explained that the package was actually in the correct car, but the driver had called it in as damaged. she then explained to me that it made its way to the misload report because UPS was trying to blame the mistake on me- because i apparently loaded the package in the car when it was damaged.
    she explained to me that from now on any type of missed revenue that they can blame on a preloader will count as a misload.
    in my center, they aren't allowed to write up the preloaders for misloads anymore because we had too many of them who were about to lose their job over misloads. instead we have "documented talk withs" for every day that we have a misload.
    i refused to sign this "documented talk with" sheet today- because opinion of a damaged box is going to differ from that of a driver. does UPS know that the driver didn't dump his load while on route and another box fell on the "damaged" box and the driver actually had damaged it and not me?
  7. helenofcalifornia

    helenofcalifornia Well-Known Member

    I don't see how they can possibly hold a preloader responsible for damages when they are responsible for getting X amount of packages into X amount of trucks within a set time. Do they actually want you to shake each box before you load it? And rewraps??!! Come on, that's why a driver carries a tape gun!! The preloader stopped doing rewraps years ago when UPS started demanding that every preloader be a Superman. Let's see how far this one goes. Can anyone else see this as a UPS "two week plan?" Won't last longer.
  8. Forty6and2

    Forty6and2 I'm Broken

    i don't think it will last that long- but i do have to admit that when i came back from disability (at the beginning of march), one of the first things they presented for me to sign was that paper that said "I won't load any damaged packages." drivers were also presented with a paper that said "they won't deliver any damaged packages."
  9. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    That whole point is somewhat extreme since using your argument could result in someone having a steward with them the entire morning for normal work related conversation.

    If I have to have a steward with me just to have normal work related dialogue then you can better believe I will use him and give discipline.

    If you give the sup the crappy answer that you are not talking to him until you have a steward present then it could end up backfiring on you.

    What your wiengarten rights also mean is that I can't use anything I find out in an interview if I did not have the shop steward present.

    Therefore If the sup does an interview and you confess to triple homicide without a steward there then it can't be used.
    The sup does you a favor under wiengarten if he does not have the steward present when he interviews.

    Insisting on the steward being there actually strengthens the supervisors position not the employees.
  10. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Blue sounds like some goofy mangement thing that may have gotten started due to somebody getting their signals crossed. Ask someone above that sup if he can give you a better explanation.
  11. rwsmith67

    rwsmith67 New Member

    Boy, after reading all of this, it makes me so happy I'm retired!!:wink2:
  12. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    And me all the happier have ex in front of UPS employee....:happy-very: -Rocky
  13. feeder53

    feeder53 ADKtrails

    They pay me well, I would answer the question and let it go, If I damage a package I will admit it and take the hit.
  14. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Couldn't management at UPS say: Driver's having tapeguns in package cars be an incentive to open and pilfer through packages?

    Of course Preloaders would NEVER load an open package and if such package is found it was due to the driver seeing what was inside.

    Rewraps should be done in the unload as they would NEVER send an open package down a slide or belt - having the contents spill out...:knockedout:
  15. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Normal work related conversation is defined as???

    IF the discussion could in ANY WAY lead to an hourly being disciplined or terminated, or affect their personal working conditions - THEY NEED A STEWARD...

    A supe going around DOCCUMENTING and having HOURLY WORKERS sign such paperwork needs to have a steward present.

    How? The supe may be preventing the hourly from being successful in doing their normaly daily work by causing a DISTRACTION. This means the hourly may not be aware of their suroundings. Maybe considered harrasment/over supervision...

    IF the hourly waves the right to have a Steward present then ANYTHING said can and will be used against them. Just like being arrested, interogated and singing a confession without a lawyer.

    I don't understand how...

    Three basic rules are set forth by the Supreme Court under Weingarten...

    RULE 1: The employee must make a clear request for union representation before or during the interview. The employee cannot be punished for making this request.

    RULE 2: After the employee makes the request, the employer must choose from among three options. The Employer must either: grant the request and delay questioning until the union representative arrives and has a chance to consult privately with the employee; deny the request and end the interview immediately; or give the employee a choice of having the interview without representation or ending the interview.

    RULE 3: If the employer denies the request for union representation, and continues to ask questions, it commits an unfair labor practice and the employee has a right to refuse to answer. The employer may not discipline the employee for such a refusal.
  16. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Take the hit may include termination for vandalizing the package resulting in loss of revenue for the company.

    Reguardless if the damage was willful or not... You were trained to use proper methods. Your employee folder shows doccumentation of proper training in methods. You signed papers stating you have recieved proper training.

    So if you are not following proper methods resulting in financial loss to the company you can be terminated. When you have your pannel hearing the District Labor Relations Manager for UPS will show these doccuments you signed.
  17. special delivery

    special delivery New Member

    Never Sign Anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  18. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I think you're taking it to extremes. So under your scenario I inbound a feeder driver and ask him why he is late. Should the steward be sitting next to me or next to the driver on the other end of the phone?

    Am I supposed to have a steward present everytime one of my sups trains a driver and instructs him with information that I could use to hold him accountable later? And if you are the steward where in the tractor cab would you like to sit?

    How about when the person calls out sick and I question him on the phone. Should I have a steward present in my office and one present at the employees house?

    I understand your point about having a steward present but there are too many everday conversations that fit into your vague reference that are not practical in application.
  19. tieguy

    tieguy Banned


    Don't forget option 4 . Grant the request to have the steward present. Then give the employee discipline when you were going to cut the guy a break and just talk to him.
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    while we are on this topic. Has anyone ever successfully suppressed evidence gathered outside the wiengarten guidelines in a panel.