Steven Hawking and Obama Care

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by ajblakejr, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. ajblakejr

    ajblakejr Age quod agis

    I sit back and would the board determining health treatment protocol, treat a man with severe ALS?

    Steven Hawking is such a man. Does his life have value?

    I believe every life has value.
  2. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

    I think he has alot of value. I learned alot about him, when I was researching computer control devices for my friend who got shot and is a quadraplegic. His story is wonderful, and in Obamas controlled plan, he would have no value, and keeping him alive costs too much.
  3. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    The real question is, assuming that someone like Stephen Hawking could not afford his own health insurance, should the state take care of him with your tax dollars?
  4. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

    WEll yes, but wont we all be forced eventually into the "plan" that has no plan?
  5. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    very interesting question AJ..... is what makes government run healthcare so dangerous.... they get to determine where the line gets drawn.
  6. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    If I must have a gov't health plan, then I want the same plan as the members of Congress.
    Why should one group of elected people have a better system than the one planned for the general masses ?
  7. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    This thread does have a foundation. Once you desensitize your feelings about taking a life in its development stages then it becomes easier to progress on to taking other lives you feel have little or no value.
  8. ajblakejr

    ajblakejr Age quod agis

    How would the board determining health treatment protocol, treat a man with severe ALS?

    I am not pondering England.

    I am pondering ALS and a beautiful mind.
    I am pondering the worth of a human being, a life that is expensive to maintain.
    I am pondering what Christopher Reeve's life would have been worth...
    I am pondering what your life is worth after your spinal cord is severed and they say you will never walk again or feed yourself again.
    Do miracles occur?
    Can the experts be wrong?
    How long are we allowed to wait for this miracle before we are required to have the mandated "end of live intervention?"

    Machines are turned off when brain activity ceases.
    Will we be turned off when our bodies become too expensive to maintain?

    I am pondering medical ethics.
  9. ajblakejr

    ajblakejr Age quod agis

    August 9, 2009 60 minutes

    CBS featured a story about a man and his family.

    The man, a father, a husband, an educator and a victim of nature's cruel hoax called ALS...

    This brave man was ready to take to bed and allow the ALS to steal his cognitive ability without a fight or hope.

    Losing the ability to communicate...even the most basic needs you are born with as an infant...gone.

    Science gave him his voice back. Amazing.
  10. TechGrrl

    TechGrrl Space Cadet

    UH, hate to break it to you, but Stephen Hawking was born, raised, and lives in the United Kingdom, (England, Britain), and has the benefit of their health system. If he had been born in the US, he would not have received the care he has received, his family would be impoverished, and it is unlikey that he would have been able to be the wonderfully creative mind that he is, since simple survival would have been in question.
  11. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Uh look again. Stephen was not born homeless and was not born as the son of an illegal immigrant. Stephen was born into wealth and I'm sure he enjoyed the best medical care his wealth could afford him.

    Its realistically doubtfull he could have done as well on a government manadated heatlh plan.
  12. ajblakejr

    ajblakejr Age quod agis the entire thread.

    I acknowledge that Stephen Hawking is from the UK.

    The point of this thread is how would this man be viewed in the world of Obama Care.

    His ALS did not appear as a child...he was a full grown man, with child and a wife...he was a productive income producing member of the society in which he lives.

    And that is very funny...because in the American I know...a child with these many odds against them from birth is better off with said impoverished family.

    I know of many children born to women addicted to crack or with born with HIV. We have safety nets in America for these families called welfare, etc.

    They do not go without food or healthcare...

    Uh, so I hate to break it to you...the purpose of my post is to generate thought not foster debate.
  13. TechGrrl

    TechGrrl Space Cadet

    A quick glance at the content of "Stephen Hawking: A Biography" seems to contradict the 'born into wealth' assertion. In fact, one passage indicates that his father felt the British class system held his family back, and that they struggled to pay for the private education that the elder Hawking saw as their upward mobility.

    So, again: Stephen Hawking is a beneficiary of the British, government run health system. Whatever resources he has NOW, he did not have them when he was first struck down by ALS.
  14. TechGrrl

    TechGrrl Space Cadet

    If you can seriously assert that the safety nets that currently exist in this country insure that poor families do not lack food or healthcare, then I don't know what thoughts we are trying to generate. You must be extremely fortunate to live in a city and state where the safety net is so strong.

    The reality of the rest of this country is that many children, adults, and elderly go to bed hungry. And lack basic healthcare. And in the richest country in the world, this is an ethical and moral disgrace. There is nothing to debate about these facts. The only question to debate is, what do we do about it?

    Please check this site for statistics on hunger by state for the period 2004-2006:

    Hunger Statistics

    The US average is that 11.3% of all households experience 'food insecurity' and 3.9% experience 'hunger'. There are 11 states, led by Mississippi, where 5% or more of the households experience hunger. The state which has the lowest rate of hunger is New Jersey, at 2.1%
  15. fethrs

    fethrs Well-Known Member

    UH I hate to break in and change the subject but I thouight this thread was about Steven Hawking and Obama Care and not hunger statistics. It was getting interesting for a few posts until the minor details got in the way....continue on posters....
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I'm sorry I was speaking of the stephen Hawking born to the doctor hawking and his wife. educated at oxford and cambridge. Perhaps you were thinking of another stephen Hawkin afflicted by ALS? eh?:happy-very:
  17. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I would think someone so concerned about hunger in the us would be equally outspoken on our united way threads?

    Isn't our government involved in the social welfare of those that are hungry? It appears you're making another argument against the government getting involved in our health care?
  18. TechGrrl

    TechGrrl Space Cadet

    No, you obviously have confused that Stephen Hawking's family with someone else. I was quoting his biography. Sorry to keep injecting facts into this discussion, but I can't help it. His family was not wealthy.

    But wait, let's see what Dr. Hawking has to say for himself, as quoted in the British papers TODAY:

    "The British physicist spoke out after Republican politicians lambasted the NHS as "evil" in their effort to stop President Barack Obama's reforms of US health care which will widen availability of treatment but at a cost to higher earners who will pay higher insurance premiums.

    "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he said. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.""
  19. TechGrrl

    TechGrrl Space Cadet

    Our government is not sufficiently involved in the social welfare of our hungry. The 'safety net' has been shredded for the last 30 years, and particularly in the last 8. It has been estimated that $30 billion a year would eliminate hunger worldwide. How fast did we burn through $30 billion in Iraq? Ten minutes?

    And our government is already involved in our health care. I have an 89-year old mother, who has had many health problems, all of which have been well handled and paid for by Medicare. Hip replacement at age 84? No problem. Ongoing supplies and care for cancer treatment? No problem. Need a respirator machine to help her breathe? No problem.

    I happen to have good health insurance thanks to the corporate teat of Big Brown, and I can only hope the beancounters in ATL don't decide to pull the plug on me and all the other retirees because the CEO thinks he needs a bump in the stock price to buff up his options. If the beancounters DO dump me, I am screwed, because even with all the wealth I managed to accumulate over all those years, NO PRIVATE INSURER will touch me: two injuries on the job, high blood pressure (which did go down after I retired...) and so on and so forth.

    So I think a rational discussion about how this country, the richest and most freedom loving country in the world, wants to handle an issue is important. Slogans and flat out fearmongering is not useful.
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I'm sorry I think our disconnect here may be that you did not research the word facts when you used it here. In fact our dear beloved Stephen Hawking was born to Dr. Hawking , did attend cambridge and oxford and did experience the first signs of ALs when attending cambridge. Perhaps you were born to a much more affluent lifestyle then stephen but generally when you're a doctors kid and you attend the finest schools you have money and plenty of it. Perhaps you can provide us with another quote where either he or his dad tries to downplay their wealth? Perhaps a review of the word fact and its plural is required before you progress in this discussion?