Teamcare unsustainable. Hoffa words, not mine.

PiedmontSteward

RTW-4-Less
I don't want to stir the "ObamaCare" pot any further (let's face it: there is an enormous amount of misinformation that's repeated on these forums about what ObamaCare does and does not do).. but the GWI diversion caveats in the new TA make me wonder if this was a contingency in case the Cadillac plan tax waivers never come through. I don't know what the effective tax rates would be on those plans, but they would certainly take a chunk out of TeamCare's current cash reserves.
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
So Obamacare has been modified prior to it's implementation and someone is surprised? Does anyone really think it isn't going to be changed many more times in the future? Hoffa uses strong language to lobby for changes that will be favorable to Taft-Hartley healthcare plans and workers in general and someone thinks this is unusual?

Seems to me like this is just part of the process. Nothing dissimilar from what Social Security went through (and still is).
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Spinning like a top. Call it what u want. I call it as written. Hoffa is stating that teamcare is unsustainable but yet wants to put me into the plan. How about this, let's see how obamacare works out. Let Hoffa lobby and all that. Once it is settled then let's talk about teamcare.

Would you move your family into a house when the landlord says the structure is unsafe when u are currently living in a solid concrete structure???
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
Spinning like a top. Call it what u want. I call it as written. Hoffa is stating that teamcare is unsustainable but yet wants to put me into the plan. How about this, let's see how obamacare works out. Let Hoffa lobby and all that. Once it is settled then let's talk about teamcare.

Would you move your family into a house when the landlord says the structure is unsafe when u are currently living in a solid concrete structure???

YOU are spinning his words, conveniently dropping under the law as currently written from your dialoge. He's lobbying against changes that he feels have negatively affected the plans, and is of course overstating the possible damage to create a crisis mentality. This is what they call "boilerplate".

Your analogy needs work too as any plan could be deemed "unsafe" since the ACA is in a state of flux and will continue to be. Keeping your UPS plan as it is today is not an option anymore and 'here' we aren't moving to Teamcare we're getting our own plan.

I'm seeing all this desparate clinging to the UPS HC plans as when a marriage breaks up and one party desparately clings to what was. Once some words have been said, papers have been filed, promises broken & secrets exposed there is really no going back. The only thing you can do is look to the future and build again. ACA is the future, Teamcare for some, a carve out plan for others.

Just a question for others who have in the past condemned political activites by Union leaders like Hoffa. This letter is one of those activities you railed against & cried about your dues being spent on (even though they aren't). Do you feel differently now that his actions are railing against your current pariah the ACA?
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
On my phone and do not have time to pick apart your post. But to say stating in ups plan is not option is ludicrous at best. Why can't we keep it? Because ups says they won't provide it? If that is the reason then why can't ups say we are cutting all pay to half of current rate?


Bottom line Hoffa says teamcare is unsustainable. Period. End of story. You can keep your benefits whille I fight for mine. Just because ups says no that is not a reason to give up a fight.
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
Our local used to have Bluecross as our provider. Now I understand why UPS wanted out. Bluecross was out of control. We saved 5 million over 5 years switching to United. Same exact plan.

All well and good, but what does this have to do with the Hoffa letter? Lets not get off the topic. Do you care to comment on the letter and the fact that Hoffa says it is unsustainable??
This is where Hoffa comes in. It's politics. Did everyone only read the words in the letter? Does Hoffa just accept the high taxable issue with Obamacare? Or should he help try to reduce it somehow? No healthcare is sustainable. The prices always go up. Your mixing sustainability with going broke. We will be negotiating the majority of our next contracts on healthcare increases leaving little to no money in raises. Guys, start thinking beyond the immediate. Right now, if Hoffa says yes, you will say no.
I guess it's better to ask Obama for a tax hike instead because we have an endless supply of cash? My god!! Are you running for TDU office? Oops, forgot, they don't have elected positions.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Stink, many ways to cut spending.
Just as u believe some of us will say no when Hoffa says yes, some here think Hoffa can't do wrong. Almost like obama and how people treat him like the next Messiah
 
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Coldworld

60 months and counting
Sounds like the Unions -including the Teamsters and Hoffa are finally faced the reality that Obamacare has ahd will hurt WORKING middle class America. Surprise surprise !!

Wasnt the initial idea of of obamacare to help folks out who weren't getting healthcare from their employers who were profiting millions and billions in profit but couldn't give the employees basic healthcare. Why the friend should you and I pay extra taxes both state and federal because Walmart doesnt warn to give some healthcare to their employees( at a reasonable price)....I know their is more to it than that but in a nutshell why is this a bad thing.
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
Stink, many ways to cut spending.
Just as u believe some of us will say no when Hoffa says yes, some here think Hoffa can't do wrong. Almost like obama and how people treat him like the next Messiah

Im not an Obama fan..but did anyone think romney would have been any better...along with his son the vp?? Yea, lets be anti gun then join the NRA right before running for president. If I'm not mistaken didn't he have a similar health care issue in his state that he was all for when he was governor?
 

wgf46

Well-Known Member
The Rich cant stay Rich if they don't continually take from the Middle Class and Poor while they Raise Costs for their Goods and Services on a continual ongoing basis. Government prints money, charges interest to banks in loaning money, banks charge interest to us for borrowing. It's a never ending cycle. Unless the working class could get some decent representation, working class stay home for about a week and not go to work. I think the Rich might get the hint and start playing fair !!!
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
If ups says they aren't offering to pay uniforms anymore, we should be ok with that? If they say they aren't going to pay into pension anymore we should live with that? I want to hear ups say "we have to pay healthcare because the union is not in the healthcare business".

You all need to stop saying that ups isn't offering healthcare.

As far as 25 a week. Yes. I would keep my benefits for 25 a week. I say allow part timers to opt out of healthcare for a higher hourly wage. It would save ups and also get more money for the college students. But push come to shove I would pay 25 a week to keep what I have.
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
On my phone and do not have time to pick apart your post. But to say stating in ups plan is not option is ludicrous at best. Why can't we keep it? Because ups says they won't provide it? If that is the reason then why can't ups say we are cutting all pay to half of current rate?


Bottom line Hoffa says teamcare is unsustainable. Period. End of story. You can keep your benefits whille I fight for mine. Just because ups says no that is not a reason to give up a fight.

The National Master was approved by the members, so UPS HC is over and done. Our only option in the West is the carve out plan and that will not be a UPS plan as we have been accustomed to, but it will be better than C6 Enhanced.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
The National Master was approved by the members, so UPS HC is over and done. Our only option in the West is the carve out plan and that will not be a UPS plan as we have been accustomed to, but it will be better than C6 Enhanced.
Some supplements have yet to be approved. How the HC will play out is not known.

I am not sure how comfortable I would be in a stand alone plan, unless ALL foreseeable financial issues are addressed in a contractual agreement. I do not like going into the C6, but I know that rises in rates here and there will be absorbed by a national pool. If we "carved" out our own little plan, and HC costs in my area shoot the roof, there could be some real issues unless all those details are outlined in a contract. Question is, who will pick up the added cost if that were to happen? UPS? Teamsters? Your local Teamsters? Not sure how comfortable I would be with that.

Again, jury still out.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
I would also like to comment on how comical it is that when UPS says "we are not in the healthcare business......" that the Union takes that as fact and does not push. How some posters say "this is not negotiable". End of story. So You take what UPS says as fact and don't push or question or challenge them on it?

But yet when Hoffa says "these restrictions will make non-profit plans like ours unsustainable" the same people that take UPS for their word on HC, will then say that what Hoffa said is just lobbying and a way to make things sound worse then they are. How does that make sense? During negotiations of a contract UPS states that they will not provide insurance and that is taken as fact and not as a negotiation ploy. Hoffa writes a letter to Pelosi And Reid and those words are just political tactics??

What side are you guys on? Who do you trust more? UPS or Hoffa? From what you are saying Hoffa is full of hot air, and UPS is company that stands behind their words. Crazy!!!!
 

Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
Hoffa finally admits it!!!

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2013/07/12/union-letter-obamacare-will-destroy-the-very-health-and-wellbeing-of-workers/
 
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