Teamsters reach sellout agreement “in principle” with UPS

badpal

Well-Known Member
No...
Ad Hominem = To the man (in Latin)
I did not attack you as a person.
I did disagree with your argument, forcefully and succinctly.

You copied and pasted an article from a Marxist/Communist web site.
I called your argument out for the Communistic drivel it is.

Communists will often latch on to Union issues trying to promote their flawed political philosophy.

You asked for our thoughts. And I gave mine.

So I ask you...
Are you a Communist, Bolshevik?

You will find most hard working UPS employees are capitalists, not Communists. We prefer that the Government does not control our hard earned money.





If the communist are against it, I gonna vote Yes
 
M

MenInBrown

Guest
Well written and thought out. My building is voting yes and my shop stewards did not even know when I mentioned hybrid driver....But then pointed to a board with the contract summary and the hybrid driver info was literally the first bullet point.

So basically my entire building is in the dark (it's a fairly large west coast hub too)

He said there was no way we would strike. Yet my supe is saying the pre-shift meetings are super :censored2:ed up and they're (management) Is preparing for a strike


Just really confused. Voting no on this.

Please be pulling everyone aside and tell them not to get sold out.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Ironically enough, thats where capitalism is heading with AI/robotics; globally. Capitalism is in its greatest crisis since the 1930's; leading to the rise of the far right across the globe and all people got are 1950 cold war literal red herrings and ad hominem attacks. LOL. What an old-timer

Anyways this thread was created to discuss the betrayal of teamsters rank and file, at the hands of the union bureaucracy; much like the UAW betrayed its members over the past two decades.

.......OH and bread lines LOL
I will wait to see the "betrayal", in the form of a poor contract to vote on. Every ntl contract since 97 has been slow leak concessions, though we have a decent supplement up here in New England. If part-timers are not making at least $13 to start and $17 after 5 years, it's not acceptable to me.
 

Pablo Escobar

Active Member
Is it just me or isn’t that the culture at UPS? Smart ass remarks on here and I notice it in our center too. Never had this issue with the older class of drivers that have since retired. They seemed to respect everyone. These new drivers just can’t say nothing without throwing some kind of stupid comment. Maybe I’m just getting old ?? Been with brown 26 years
 

olroadbeech

Happy Verified UPSer
My comments in red below (how is that for irony)...
Boshevik quote;
"Its the lack of a militant Left (aka communists, socialists, anarchists, etc) that was purged by the trade union bureaucracy during the mcccarty era that has led to the absolute debacle and collapse of American trade unions. Private sector union membership now stands below 5%, but lets keep doing things your way, the way that isnt working for large parts of the country INCLUDING your own brother and sisters at UPS."
So I will take that as a yes...
You are a Communist.

"That you think 'communism' is equivalent to some tax increase shows your ignorance and thus any debate with you would lack merit; and be a waste of time."
Where did I state such a thing?
Typical straw man argument.


"You say communism is flawed, but everything you were afraid would happen under communism IS happening under capitalism. And soon, because of capitalist vultures like Bezos, you and others here at UPS may soon be joining the ranks of the already impoverished."
I was never afraid of Communism.
The old Soviet Union and it's collapse showed conclusively what Communism reaps..
Oppression and bread lines.
[/QUOTE]
are you sure communism in the old soviet union was flawed? there were other reasons for the collapse. just two were rampant corruption and military spending.

The US is heading in the same direction.
 

olroadbeech

Happy Verified UPSer
Is it just me or isn’t that the culture at UPS? Smart ass remarks on here and I notice it in our center too. Never had this issue with the older class of drivers that have since retired. They seemed to respect everyone. These new drivers just can’t say nothing without throwing some kind of stupid comment. Maybe I’m just getting old ?? Been with brown 26 years
It was one of the minor reasons I retired. The main reason was it just made financial sense. Another was I wanted my body to heal and stop working the graveyard shift. The third was stupid management. And exactly like you say , the new generation of drivers lack respect ( not all of course ). You're not just getting old. A lot of people are saying this.
 
F

Frankie's Friend

Guest
I was never afraid of Communism.
The old Soviet Union and it's collapse showed conclusively what Communism reaps..
Oppression and bread lines.
are you sure communism in the old soviet union was flawed? there were other reasons for the collapse. just two were rampant corruption and military spending.

The US is heading in the same direction.[/QUOTE]
You are standing up for or giving credibility to Stalin's murderous actions, aggression, and torture?

The US is heading that way only if attitudes like yours prevail because we've had it too easy for too long and dont appreciate the sacrifices of our grand and great grandparents.
 
F

Frankie's Friend

Guest
It was one of the minor reasons I retired. The main reason was it just made financial sense. Another was I wanted my body to heal and stop working the graveyard shift. The third was stupid management. And exactly like you say , the new generation of drivers lack respect ( not all of course ). You're not just getting old. A lot of people are saying this.
It's an attitude derived from being treated like cattle.

When you first get the job everything is just peaches.

After you're here long enough to have your settled rights be violated over and over your attitude changes.

When you see the union leadership screw over members it gets even worse. People dont care anymore.
 

Non sequitur

Well-Known Member
Its the lack of a militant Left (aka communists, socialists, anarchists, etc) that was purged by the trade union bureaucracy during the mcccarty era that has led to the absolute debacle and collapse of American trade unions. Private sector union membership now stands below 5%, but lets keep doing things your way, the way that isnt working for large parts of the country INCLUDING your own brother and sisters at UPS.

That you think 'communism' is equivalent to some tax increase shows your ignorance and thus any debate with you would lack merit; and be a waste of time.

You say communism is flawed, but everything you were afraid would happen under communism IS happening under capitalism. And soon, because of capitalist vultures like Bezos, you and others here at UPS may soon be joining the ranks of the already impoverished.

Communism is flawed. There are people who are in charge of the organization.
 

KoennenTiger

Well-Known Member
The guys in my center have been talking about a potential two tiered driver setup for awhile. And know it is an attempt to bust the union and must be voted down.

What we didn't realize was that our traitorous union leaders were the ones responsible.

I don't see how it could work anyway. In my center the wait time to go driver is now 0 weeks. None. They are hiring them right off the street. Any part timer who wants to go driver can go immediately. The only wait is that they can't get them trained fast enough. And these new drivers aren't very good. I'm expecting a 50% fail rate for new guys but this year we have had 8 out of 9 fail, and the one who is still around is terrible. Of course he only spent 2 months doing part time work.

Meanwhile we have no utility drivers at all, no one can use a sick day, and they're begging guys to work through their vacation. Oh and management is making deliveries as well! Even though they'll get grieved for it. The economy is just doing far too good under trump.

And they want to give us a bad contract? This just sounds insane to me.
 

babboo25

Well-Known Member
Is it just me or isn’t that the culture at UPS? Smart ass remarks on here and I notice it in our center too. Never had this issue with the older class of drivers that have since retired. They seemed to respect everyone. These new drivers just can’t say nothing without throwing some kind of stupid comment. Maybe I’m just getting old ?? Been with brown 26 years
They’re all entitled, expect UPS to be their personal piggy bank.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
It's an attitude derived from being treated like cattle.

When you first get the job everything is just peaches.

After you're here long enough to have your settled rights be violated over and over your attitude changes.

When you see the union leadership screw over members it gets even worse. People dont care anymore.
Union members have been violating others rights and screwing each other over for over 30 years.
 

Bolshevik

Well-Known Member
UPDATE ***


The Teamsters are seeking to impose historic givebacks on UPS workers, who have voted by 93 percent to authorize a strike against the giant package delivery corporation. The union-company deal would create a second tier of lower-paid “hybrid drivers,” a major assault on one of the few remaining decent-paying jobs at the company. Earlier leaks that the Teamsters had originally proposed this new category of drivers prompted widespread outrage among the rank and file.

Roughly two-thirds of the company’s 230,000 workers are employed part-time and are paid as low as $10 per hour. The contract would increase the starting part-time wage to $13 per hour, increasing to $15.50 by the end of the contract in 2023, leaving these workers at poverty-level wages. The proposal, moreover, starts out at even less than the $15 per hour, which facilities on the West Coast are already beginning to pay in response to high turnover.

Displaying contempt for the intelligence of the membership, lead Teamsters negotiator Denis T claimed in a statement released Thursday that the deal “is among the very best ever negotiated for UPS members....”

Read the rest: UPS workers denounce sellout deal “in principle” between company, Teamsters
 

twoweeled

Well-Known Member
Trying to get back to the point. How many people here are surprised at this first proposal? Probably the same amount of people who will be surprised when our Union officials tell us; this is the last and only proposal.
I also wonder, how many of the younger people realize what a different tier of pay means? If you don't know. Another tier means, the person making the most money is the least desirable worker. The person the company will try to give the least work too and would love to get rid of.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm aware of seniority rules. You'd better be able to prove when the work became available and when management became aware of it. I'll tell you now, when that extra (surprise) work became available. It becomes available, when you are unavailable, not on premises or unreachable. Ask the guy in feeder (who's not the rabbit) how extra pulls (work) become available, right after you leave the gate - and the runner (rabbit or kiss butt) is on premises for the work. Yes, seniority prevails, but if your not there when management becomes aware of the work, it will go to senior person on site. Figure it out people.
I think the older guys know this. They younger guys, I don't know. YOU DON'T WANT TWO TIERS.
 

Bolshevik

Well-Known Member
Trying to get back to the point. How many people here are surprised at this first proposal? Probably the same amount of people who will be surprised when our Union officials tell us; this is the last and only proposal.
I also wonder, how many of the younger people realize what a different tier of pay means? If you don't know. Another tier means, the person making the most money is the least desirable worker. The person the company will try to give the least work too and would love to get rid of.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm aware of seniority rules. You'd better be able to prove when the work became available and when management became aware of it. I'll tell you now, when that extra (surprise) work became available. It becomes available, when you are unavailable, not on premises or unreachable. Ask the guy in feeder (who's not the rabbit) how extra pulls (work) become available, right after you leave the gate - and the runner (rabbit or kiss butt) is on premises for the work. Yes, seniority prevails, but if your not there when management becomes aware of the work, it will go to senior person on site. Figure it out people.
I think the older guys know this. They younger guys, I don't know. YOU DON'T WANT TWO TIERS.

Absolutely agreed. Its how the auto manufacturers eventually destroyed the UAW. The auto workers union's brass was in the hands of finance capitalists and some were later appointed to the executive boards of the companies who they helped by destroying the membership. Its happened before. It will likely happen again unless the rank and file organize independently of teamsters.

When american trade unions had big #'s in industry they refused to be political and push for national reforms, today workers union and non-union alike are dealing with those betrayals and its proven by the homeless rate, the lack of health care, the lack of access to decent paying jobs, the lack of access to clean drinking water in large parts of the country.

Its always political.
 

twoweeled

Well-Known Member
By the way. I don't expect this first proposal to pass (although, stranger things have happened). But don't expect the 2nd one to be much better. It's obvious, getting a good contract is not on the UPS/Union priority list. Yes, they are one of the same.
 
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