The Boston Bully's New England Pension Fund in the Red Zone!

[Lead Belly]

TW...I have no idea what you meant by "going to let we their ass in the end".

People were going to lose their ass in the end.


I respectfully disagree with you. Ron Carey screwed the central states pension fund. When the stock was sold he got 1.9 million.
He had to cheat to win his second term and was barred from the teamsters union for life. I can copy and paste all kinds of stuff but I don't feel the need. Guy screwed generations of teamsters by raising a pension that could not be lowered.
He sucks

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

Didn't happen, Belly. Carey did NOT inherit "1.9 million in ups stock from his daddy"! Joseph Carey, Ron's father did buy 8 shares of UPS stock in 1935 for $320.00. Over 56 years, that stock did grow to 112,000 shares worth about 1.9 million dollars. All similarities between fact and your steaming pile of BS end right here.

Federal labor law requires union officers to report ownership of any stock in a privately held company that the officer is representing in collective bargaining. Joseph Carey died in 1991 and left his six sons an estate that included $1.9 million in UPS stock. The estate, which was still in probate in August of 1992, sold that stock back to UPS. The U.S. Department of Labor, specifically John Koch, the acting deputy assistant secretary for labor-management standards, advised the Teamsters Union in an August 18, 1993 letter that "Mr. Carey did not have any vested right to the stock in question during the time the stock was in the estate, and there is no indication that he exercised any influence or control over the handling or sale of the stock."

As to the rather bizarre assertion that "He and tdu were in ups's pocket. Ups paid off Carey and tdu." Huh? WTF was UPS paying for...the 1997 UPS strike?

BTW...I have no idea what you meant by "going to let we their ass in the end".

So are you saying he didn't get 1.9 mill in ups stock? Or are you saying he did get 1.9 mill in ups stock?

 

[Brown Spider]

People were going to lose their ass in the end.


I respectfully disagree with you. Ron Carey screwed the central states pension fund. When the stock was sold he got 1.9 million.
He had to cheat to win his second term and was barred from the teamsters union for life. I can copy and paste all kinds of stuff but I don't feel the need. Guy screwed generations of teamsters by raising a pension that could not be lowered.
He sucks

He did not get $1.9 million when the stock was sold. The entire estate of Joseph Carey was worth $2.17 million and was divided among his six sons. Do the math. Don't take my word for it...don't take the DOL word for it...it's all a matter of public record. Just do the homework.

The election for a second term was a mess. He placed a degree of trust in three outside consultants whom he never should have trusted. One of them acknowledged in court that he had adopted an "ends justifies the means" mentality. He was sentenced to a prison term along with at least one other consultant. Carey was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. His lifetime ban was handed down by the IRB. Haven't met many Teamsters who had such faith in the IRB...but they found their way into our union as a result of the wrongdoing of Carey's predecessors and their authority is absolute.

Sounds like your assessment of Carey is pretty closely linked to your admiration for some of those old guard predecessors, with all due respect.

 

[Lead Belly]

He did not get $1.9 million when the stock was sold. The entire estate of Joseph Carey was worth $2.17 million and was divided among his six sons. Do the math. Don't take my word for it...don't take the DOL word for it...it's all a matter of public record. Just do the homework.

The election for a second term was a mess. He placed a degree of trust in three outside consultants whom he never should have trusted. One of them acknowledged in court that he had adopted an "ends justifies the means" mentality. He was sentenced to a prison term along with at least one other consultant. Carey was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. His lifetime ban was handed down by the IRB. Haven't met many Teamsters who had such faith in the IRB...but they found their way into our union as a result of the wrongdoing of Carey's predecessors and their authority is absolute.

Sounds like your assessment of Carey is pretty closely linked to your admiration for some of those old guard predecessors, with all due respect.

With all do respect I'm connected to the central states pension fund and so are a lot of people I know and care a great deal for. You can call that old guard or whatever you want. When I have to explain why the fund WILL go broke in 5 to 8 years I tend to get very agitated by Ron Carey for increasing a pension across the board that he knew was unsustainable and next to near impossible to fix. It took an act of congress in 2014 to be able to lower it and it still can't be fixed. Ron Carey set this whole show in motion.

 

[Gimme Danger]

Ron Carey isn't the omniscient scapegoat for the Hoffa administration. After 17+ years in office, all problems are owned by the leadership. Maybe the 2008 pullout by ups is to blame? Maybe we should be organizing freight and putting them in our funds?
We can't blame deregulation (1982?) and Ron Carey (out of office since 1998) for our problems. Just like some will say we can't blame the past control and corruption of organized crime on our union.

 

[10 point]

Out of curiosity, why didn't H off a let UPS off the hook sooner than 2008 and settle/deal with this deficit earlier before it became the grand canyon?

There were ten years of H off a as GP from 1998 to 2008. Why wasn't the Teamsters/UPS pension fund set up immediately to stop the "mistake" of matching the company's offer during the strike?

 

[Lead Belly]

Ron Carey isn't the omniscient scapegoat for the H administration. After 17+ years in office, all problems are owned by the leadership. Maybe the 2008 pullout by ups is to blame? Maybe we should be organizing freight and putting them in our funds?
We can't blame deregulation (1982?) and Ron Carey (out of office since 1998) for our problems. Just like some will say we can't blame the past control and corruption of organized crime on our union.

So how would h have gone about lowering a pension for members with a majority of not all their years in at orphan companies? If he did how could he legally do it? With hundreds of companies filing for bankruptcy and not being obligated to pay their withdrawal liability what could be done.

How could you organize and expect a company to get into the central states pension.

I'm curious what you would do in these situations?

How would you put it up to a membership to vote to reduce their own pensions?

The backlash in the last year alone should tell you some of the answers to some of these questions.

Preston ,Cf, Alvin ,and the list goes a mile long. I had time in at Central Transport. I showed up one day in 96 and the gate was locked. The owner is a very rich man. He actually owns a bridge going into Canada. He never had to pay his withdrawal liability along with the three mentioned above and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Gimme Danger]

New England figured out a way for companies to withdraw and re-enter in 2011, and attract new companies into the fund.
Instead of the rush in 2008 to withdraw by ups & ibt, a more long term approach?

 

[Coldworld]

View attachment 81894

Damn yoda....looking a little on edge

 

[Coldworld]

Didn't happen, Belly. Carey did NOT inherit "1.9 million in ups stock from his daddy"! Joseph Carey, Ron's father did buy 8 shares of UPS stock in 1935 for $320.00. Over 56 years, that stock did grow to 112,000 shares worth about 1.9 million dollars. All similarities between fact and your steaming pile of BS end right here.

Federal labor law requires union officers to report ownership of any stock in a privately held company that the officer is representing in collective bargaining. Joseph Carey died in 1991 and left his six sons an estate that included $1.9 million in UPS stock. The estate, which was still in probate in August of 1992, sold that stock back to UPS. The U.S. Department of Labor, specifically John Koch, the acting deputy assistant secretary for labor-management standards, advised the Teamsters Union in an August 18, 1993 letter that "Mr. Carey did not have any vested right to the stock in question during the time the stock was in the estate, and there is no indication that he exercised any influence or control over the handling or sale of the stock."

As to the rather bizarre assertion that "He and tdu were in ups's pocket. Ups paid off Carey and tdu." Huh? WTF was UPS paying for...the 1997 UPS strike?

BTW...I have no idea what you meant by "going to let we their ass in the end".

Did his father work for ups...??? I thought only management were able to get stock until the 90s when us lowlifes we're able to purchase it at a small discount??

 

[Bubblehead]

So how would h have gone about lowering a pension for members with a majority of not all their years in at orphan companies? If he did how could he legally do it? With hundreds of companies filing for bankruptcy and not being obligated to pay their withdrawal liability what could be done.

How could you organize and expect a company to get into the central states pension.

I'm curious what you would do in these situations?

How would you put it up to a membership to vote to reduce their own pensions?

The backlash in the last year alone should tell you some of the answers to some of these questions.

Preston ,Cf, Alvin ,and the list goes a mile long. I had time in at Central Transport. I showed up one day in 96 and the gate was locked. The owner is a very rich man. He actually owns a bridge going into Canada. He never had to pay his withdrawal liability along with the three mentioned above and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

So, waiting the better part of 20 years to start lobbying Congress, as well as allowing UPS and other major contributors to withdraw, were the prudent moves?

Perhaps it would have been "unpopular", as it is now, but the damage could have been nowhere near as far reaching as it is now.

 

[Lead Belly]

Damn yoda....looking a little on edge

That's what Yoda would look as a Sith lord.

 

[Lead Belly]

 

[Lead Belly]

 

[Brown Spider]

Did his father work for ups...??? I thought only management were able to get stock until the 90s when us lowlifes we're able to purchase it at a small discount??

Yes, his father did work for UPS, and not in management. He drove a package car. Like you, I always thought that stock first became available to us in the 90's. I then found out from some old timers in NY that they were able to purchase stock back in the 50's and 60's.

 

[Coldworld]

That's what Yoda would look as a Sith lord.

Wonder if Disney will make a movie based around yoda in his younger days...in his early 200s...lol Disney has spend billions on this franchise and they are going to milk this for all that it's worth .... I even read where even George Lucas is surprised at the marketing machine that star wars has become...go into a store and it is everywhere

 

[Lead Belly]

Wonder if Disney will make a movie based around yoda in his younger days...in his early 200s...lol Disney has spend billions on this franchise and they are going to milk this for all that it's worth .... I even read where even George Lucas is surprised at the marketing machine that star wars has become...go into a store and it is everywhere

I love it all. It is a good way to connect with my kids and another generation.