The harrassment continues....questions

[upsrwife]

So, something has been said smart a&& everyday since my husband has been back, or they put him on run's in other centers he has only done once and don't let him bump people and on and on. Anyway, a couple days ago his road supervisor told him you better remember those cards they gave you word for word (the ones when he joined the safety committee) OR ELSE. And today the Labor supervisor tells him you better know it word for word by friday or you will be fired again. You had 17 days off and you should have learned them then (my husband didn't even have the cards) and it was a stipulation when we rehired you (the stipulation was that he join the safety committee, which he has and JUST got the cards). So, he pulls the union rep in with him, he said I basically know them, I have just been working late every night. the Labor super said you have to know them word for word or you will be fired.

Is this true? Can this happen? Now he is exhaused because he is studying them on lunch and at 10pm at night after dinner. I'm just at a loss wondering why they are doing this to him.

 

[browninpdx]

sounds to me like he is on thin ice anyways, so he should give an honest effort to remember the cards. If he cant oh well, all he has to do is show effort. I doubt they can fire him for not knowing them, but it is ups they do dumb things often.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

In my experience, UPS rarely loses. If they can't make a firing stick, they can apply pressure until the person quits. They usually only do this in extreme cases however. If a stipulation of his rehiring was that he join the safety committee, and knowing the "cards" is a requirement of the committee, then he needs to know them to uphold his end of the agreement. Otherwise it could be interpreted as a violation of the agreement, and yes, he could be fired at that point. Good luck.

 

[UPS Lifer]

So, something has been said smart a&& everyday since my husband has been back, or they put him on run's in other centers he has only done once and don't let him bump people and on and on. Anyway, a couple days ago his road supervisor told him you better remember those cards they gave you word for word (the ones when he joined the safety committee) OR ELSE. And today the Labor supervisor tells him you better know it word for word by friday or you will be fired again. You had 17 days off and you should have learned them then (my husband didn't even have the cards) and it was a stipulation when we rehired you (the stipulation was that he join the safety committee, which he has and JUST got the cards). So, he pulls the union rep in with him, he said I basically know them, I have just been working late every night. the Labor super said you have to know them word for word or you will be fired.

Is this true? Can this happen? Now he is exhaused because he is studying them on lunch and at 10pm at night after dinner. I'm just at a loss wondering why they are doing this to him.

Obviously, we are only getting one side of the story here. For the sake of argument if everything you say is true, the company is treading on thin ice. They are hoping that your husband will screw up or give in and quit. Apparently, they are unable to deal with the decision that was made.

Sure - the company can fire (or threaten to fire) your husband for anything they so choose. Don't forget that they will have to prove their case once again.

Here is a key statement to remember..... He cannot be held to a different standard than the rest of the drivers. Otherwise, these actions border on discrimination. The actual supervisors can also be sued along with the company. You may want to start throwing around the NLRB. I would also suggest documenting everything that happens. Don't worry about keeping the book hidden! They can't take it away from him unless every driver is held to that standard.... catch my drift!

Also have him buddy with someone when he is inside the building so he has a witness to the threats that are being imposed. Be accurate in the documentation - do not make it one sided. The more fair a representation of the documented material the more believable and less likely to have holes shot through it.

He might have to start throwing out some words that indicate his intent to take this to a higher level if the center does not back off.

Remember that if what you say is not an accurate representation than my advice will not have the same outcome as described.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

Lifer, I too started to mention the NLRB. I hesitated because she hasn't really indicated if she has exhausted the Locals involvement in this new development. As you say, IF everything is as she portrays it, I would think the NLRB would take a look at it.
I would disagree on the "different standard" issue. He is working under a type of probation agreed to in order to be rehired. He in effect, agreed to a different standard.

 

[Fnix]

Study it while he was gone? LOL! He didnt know he was coming back or not.

 

[upsrwife]

Obviously, we are only getting one side of the story here. For the sake of argument if everything you say is true, the company is treading on thin ice. They are hoping that your husband will screw up or give in and quit. Apparently, they are unable to deal with the decision that was made.

Why is it obvious that it's one side of the story? No, it's just the story. It's just how it happened. I think maby some of you have it so peachy cream at your center that you find it hard to believe that some drivers are treated really bad at others.

My husband has been keeping a log everyday of what happens. he has to. it's something different everyday. it's almost like they are so pissed the Union got his job back that they want to make him miserable.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

Why is it obvious that it's one side of the story? No, it's just the story. It's just how it happened. I think maby some of you have it so peachy cream at your center that you find it hard to believe that some drivers are treated really bad at others.

My husband has been keeping a log everyday of what happens. he has to. it's something different everyday. it's almost like they are so pissed the Union got his job back that they want to make him miserable.

I understand your frustration but let me tell you something. UPS does not arbitrarially fire "good" drivers. What would be the point? Fire a "good" driver and replace him with an unknown? (Good drivers make everyone up the food chain look better and we all know the power in that.) That is why those of us with decades of experience hesitate to naively gobble up every word as gospel. You are human, you have your perspective. But it seems to me there could be issues unrelated to the original firing that is affecting your current woes. If I am wrong, I am sorry.

 

[tieguy]

I understand your frustration but let me tell you something. UPS does not arbitrarially fire "good" drivers. What would be the point? Fire a "good" driver and replace him with an unknown? (Good drivers make everyone up the food chain look better and we all know the power in that.) That is why those of us with decades of experience hesitate to naively gobble up every word as gospel. You are human, you have your perspective. But it seems to me there could be issues unrelated to the original firing that is affecting your current woes. If I am wrong, I am sorry.

Agreed. Your husband is not getting all this grief because someone does not like him. memorize the cards verbatum. Take on the challenge of staying one step ahead of the man. When the boss comes to him with some new BS then act eager to write down his instructions and timeline. Never let them see you sweat. Act eager and cooperative. He can have fun with this little game until they get tired of him and move on. Ultimately he has to figure out why he popped up on the bosses radar screen and then stay off it. Boss disliking him or holding a grudge from something that happened three years ago is not the answer. He has had many opportunities to change the bosses opinion of him since then and has not done so for whatever reason. For now he has to ride it out.

 

[upsrwife]

He has no bad record with UPS. Other center manager's have told him how much they like him and what a good job he does on many occasions. He does lots of leads and until this accident, never had a driving problem. What happened 3 years ago, does still have an impact today. he has to take off for doctor appointments still at least once or twice a month and has to wear a knee brace that they don't like. recently, he had to take off 14 days for shoulder surgery. after that surgery he was back to work a week before getting fired. He takes the correct days off and when needed he took FMLA and was approved for fmla short term. the surgeries and doctor appointments are from an accident 3 years ago where he was stopped at a red light on the way to work and got hit head on by someone crossing the median picking up a cellphone. not his fault. but thanks to UPS we are paying for it.

 

[soberups]

I understand your frustration but let me tell you something. UPS does not arbitrarially fire "good" drivers. What would be the point? .

It is a question of math. A seniority driver at full scale who is successfuly terminated can be replaced by a new hire making almost $10 an hour less. This driver will be in progression for 3 years with fewer vacation weeks. Whether or not the fired driver is "good" is irrelevant, his replacement will always be cheaper.

 

[feeder53]

There are a number of issues here, One must just stand back and take a good, honest look at everything. Very seldom is there just one side. Keep your nose clean, work to the best of your ability and move on. When you point at someone else, there are three fingers pointing back at you. I am not taking sides, but be honest and it will all work out.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Lifer, I too started to mention the NLRB. I hesitated because she hasn't really indicated if she has exhausted the Locals involvement in this new development. As you say, IF everything is as she portrays it, I would think the NLRB would take a look at it.
I would disagree on the "different standard" issue. He is working under a type of probation agreed to in order to be rehired. He in effect, agreed to a different standard.

Good Point about the different standard - this is where giving advice can bite you when you don't know all the facts. I am wondering if the agreement was written or verbal. That could also make a difference.

I also agree with you on the NLRB, I hesitated as well for more than one reason - I am not big on solving problems at another level but you can make parallels to mediation and poker. It is not always a bad thing to put a card on the table that may influence your hand!

 

[UPS Lifer]

It is a question of math. A seniority driver at full scale who is successfuly terminated can be replaced by a new hire making almost $10 an hour less. This driver will be in progression for 3 years with fewer vacation weeks. Whether or not the fired driver is "good" is irrelevant, his replacement will always be cheaper.

Just because what you say is true (in mathematical terms) does not make it so....

In 36 years and 20 as a manager - I have never had any management person equate a driver in those terms... and we have plenty of opportunity to talk amongst ourselves off the record.

In your way of thinking, UPS should have an unwritten policy to lop off the heads of all senior drivers.

 

[trplnkl]

A Question for Wife. What did the Union rep say? He may need to get with the BA that helped him in the panel.., this may be over the head of the Steward. This is harassment. Maybe he should actually call the NLRB and talk to someone there.

To those who are saying there are always two sides to a story, I agree there is. However I've seen many times when one side of the story was contrived out of thin air to make things appear as they please. I have seen a driver come back from a termination, from an accident, from an on jog injury and from a disability to receive a constant barrage of harassment. I have been the recipient of such treatment. I have worked for managers (two to be exact) that are fair, upright and honest. I have worked for many more than that the were vindictive, conniving liars. We had one manager that if you made him mad in anyway, on any level he would spend a good part of the next two days on the computer looking at your delivery/pickup records, your time card, anything he could find to "get" you for. When he first came to our center he called himself the "Terminator".

 

[upsrwife]

A Question for Wife. What did the Union rep say? He may need to get with the BA that helped him in the panel.., this may be over the head of the Steward. This is harassment. Maybe he should actually call the NLRB and talk to someone there.

The union rep just listned, he wasn't my husbands regular rep, we have a call in to the Union President who helped up in panel and are waiting for a return call. He is also waiting from a call back from his friend on the safety comittee to see exatly what needs to be memorized and what just needs to be known.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

It is a question of math. A seniority driver at full scale who is successfuly terminated can be replaced by a new hire making almost $10 an hour less. This driver will be in progression for 3 years with fewer vacation weeks. Whether or not the fired driver is "good" is irrelevant, his replacement will always be cheaper.

Granted, in theory you are correct. However, I have never seen a high seniority driver fired for any suspicious/made up reason. Stealing time etc? Yep, but seniority or lack of it wouldn't have a difference.

 

[trplnkl]

I saw three senior drivers all fired at one time for a trumped up claim of theft by falsifying records on their miles. All of them were driving trucks that the odometers were no working or were grossly incorrect ( show ten miles for the day on a route that normally runs 50-70 miles). The number 3 driver in the center wrote his car up daily on the DVIR, informed someone in management and received instructions everyday to Est. miles. He looked back on his self recorded record of mile and used an average for his estimation. He was fired for stealing. The number 6 or 7 driver, same scenario except his est of miles just came from his memory of average miles driven. FIRED! The other guy (in the top 1/3rd of the driver roster, same thing. Two of the three got their jobs back after 4 months without back pay. So yeah, UPS is very capable of firing even higher senior drivers for made up crap.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I saw three senior drivers all fired at one time for a trumped up claim of theft by falsifying records on their miles. All of them were driving trucks that the odometers were no working or were grossly incorrect ( show ten miles for the day on a route that normally runs 50-70 miles). The number 3 driver in the center wrote his car up daily on the DVIR, informed someone in management and received instructions everyday to Est. miles. He looked back on his self recorded record of mile and used an average for his estimation. He was fired for stealing. The number 6 or 7 driver, same scenario except his est of miles just came from his memory of average miles driven. FIRED! The other guy (in the top 1/3rd of the driver roster, same thing. Two of the three got their jobs back after 4 months without back pay. So yeah, UPS is very capable of firing even higher senior drivers for made up crap.

My guess is that the drivers you mentioned had other issues with management. .... Mgmt wanted them gone.

It is not the made up crap that is at issue. It is the reason it is made up! UPS does not fire drivers just to reduce the cost of the payroll.

Actually, in the short haul, a new driver will cost you a whole lot more than a scratch senior driver will.

Here are some of the added costs - more supervision - claims - customer relations - missed pus - reduction of initial performance - accidents - other safety issues - possible damages - route or area knowledge

 

[ImpactedTSG]

Sounds like instead of posting 24/7 on BC, you need to be out looking for a job. It doesn't sound like your husband is going to have his much longer if they are that hell-bent on getting him.