The Hoffa-Hall Record at UPS

[KingofBrown]

https://web.archive.org/web/20100830174156/http://www.tdu.org/node/4131
In all, the 2008 contract had more concessions than any UPS deal since 1982.

This is an interesting article. I find interesting all the categories, especially: The Full-Time 22.3 Jobs Takeaway and No Protection from New Technology and Production Harassment Because this is something very relevant that I have personally seen and that I have read in many threads of the BrownCafe Forums, too.

 

[Anonymous 10]

https://web.archive.org/web/20100830174156/http://www.tdu.org/node/4131
In all, the 2008 contract had more concessions than any UPS deal since 1982.

This is an interesting article. I find interesting all the categories, especially: The Full-Time 22.3 Jobs Takeaway and No Protection from New Technology and Production Harassment Because this is something very relevant that I have personally seen and that I have read in many threads of the BrownCafe Forums, too.

Do you think it's time for a change??????

 

[KingofBrown]

LOL. I do.

We need to get back into track.

The problem of today's grievances in local levels is because of the problems of grievances in the National Committee.

Do you think it's time for a change??????

 

[PT Stewie]

I have spoken to hall face to face specifically about part time people and their problems. In the few moments I got to speak to him one on one I got the feeling and he as much as admitted that those people are not an IBT priority. Unfortunatley I believe our union officers catagorize 22.3 and PT'ers together as non important. The inside people if you will make up a large dues paying voting block. Maybe it is time we should realize our potential and untapped strength to effect a change.

 

[KingofBrown]

November 2011 is the time.

I have spoken to hall face to face specifically about part time people and their problems. In the few moments I got to speak to him one on one I got the feeling and he as much as admitted that those people are not an IBT priority. Unfortunatley I believe our union officers catagorize 22.3 and PT'ers together as non important. The inside people if you will make up a large dues paying voting block. Maybe it is time we should realize our potential and untapped strength to effect a change.

 

[Anonymous 10]

I have spoken to hall face to face specifically about part time people and their problems. In the few moments I got to speak to him one on one I got the feeling and he as much as admitted that those people are not an IBT priority. Unfortunatley I believe our union officers catagorize 22.3 and PT'ers together as non important. The inside people if you will make up a large dues paying voting block. Maybe it is time we should realize our potential and untapped strength to effect a change.

Maybe we can use this forum to hype up the opposition.

 

[FracusBrown]

Why blame Hoffa-Hall? The rank and file supported, voted and passed the contracts.

It's simple economics. There is largely a predetermined amount of money to dice up with each new contract. The unions job is to figure out how to split it up in a way that makes the most people happy enough to vote for it while making sure they generate or keep enough dues paying members. The unborn and the non-majority always loose. Not because the union or the company want it. It's because the voting rank and file want the biggest piece of the pie and to get it they are willing to sacrifice the unborn and the non-majority.

 

[soberups]

We got the contract that we voted for.

Those who are unhappy with the agreement (and I agree that their unhappiness is justified in many respects) need to ask themselves one simple question; are they and the majority of their co-workers ultimately willing to go out on strike to get something better?

If the answer to that question is "yes" then they certainly have a right to complain and start taking action to improve the next contract. If the answer to that question is "no" then perhaps they need to reevaluate their own expectations rather than to blame the union that negotiated the contract on their behalf.

 

[Babagounj]

The strike of 97, basically shut down the economy for those few weeks.
I'm all for repeating that.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The strike of 97, basically shut down the economy for those few weeks.
I'm all for repeating that.

With all of the technological advances since '97, to include PAS/EDD, it would be much easier to replace us.

 

[FracusBrown]

The strike of 97, basically shut down the economy for those few weeks.
I'm all for repeating that.

What was gained? If you can name one lasting benefit of the strike, I'm sure everyone would like to hear what is was/is. The hype was about part time jobs. The real issue was the pension. If the offer for the pension was accepted, there'd be a whole lot of teamsters with a better pension than what they have now.

 

[Omega man]

Hoffa and Hall have no UPS experience. They don't have a clue as to what gones on at UPS. We need leaders who know UPS as we do.

 

[Omega man]

With all of the technological advances since '97, to include PAS/EDD, it would be much easier to replace us.

Management can't even dispatch or load our trucks properly. With their reduced numbers, they could never facilitate a campaign to replace us. Even if they somehow succeeded in doing so the replacements would quickly organize. It is impossible to work for UPS without some Union entity keeping them reasonable and in check.

 

[jimstud]

What was gained? If you can name one lasting benefit of the strike, I'm sure everyone would like to hear what is was/is. The hype was about part time jobs. The real issue was the pension. If the offer for the pension was accepted, there'd be a whole lot of teamsters with a better pension than what they have now.

***. i have watched what ups has done to the management benefit package if screwed their own what do you think they would do to the teamsters? how is that atnea hmo treating the management team compared to my blue cross blue shield ppo ?

 

[FracusBrown]

***. i have watched what ups has done to the management benefit package if screwed their own what do you think they would do to the teamsters? how is that atnea hmo treating the management team compared to my blue cross blue shield ppo ?

If it's contractually protected you can't get screwed like management is getting screwed on the benefits. So the benefit is that the teamsters aren't getting screwed? Tell that the 30 year Teamsters that'll be collecting less than a $1000 in pension and to the others that will be paying the pension benefits of others with the contribution made on their behalf and to the many that will be contributing part of future raises to help fund the severly underfunded teamster pension plans.

 

[jimstud]

If it's contractually protected you can't get screwed like management is getting screwed on the benefits. So the benefit is that the teamsters aren't getting screwed? Tell that the 30 year Teamsters that'll be collecting less than a $1000 in pension and to the others that will be paying the pension benefits of others with the contribution made on their behalf and to the many that will be contributing part of future raises to help fund the severly underfunded teamster pension plans.

so you are saying that if ups was in control of my pension like they are in cotrol of management health plans they would not screw with it ? do you have some ocean view property in arizona or a bridge in brooklyn you would like to sell me ?

 

[Babagounj]

What was gained? If you can name one lasting benefit of the strike, I'm sure everyone would like to hear what is was/is. The hype was about part time jobs. The real issue was the pension. If the offer for the pension was accepted, there'd be a whole lot of teamsters with a better pension than what they have now.

True the "97 strike was to prevent UPS from gaining total control over all the pensions funds.
My point was that the current administration's handling of this economy is a farce, another work stoppage like '97 would expose them as class A fools.
What would they do ?
Order the National Guard to force us back to work ?
What could UPS do ?
Rehire all those that they recently canned.
Sure they could hire replacements, but who would train them?
Mgt is down to bare bones on staffing, and given the performance of some of our current sups it's beyond funny.

 

[Just Numbers]

Don't you get it, if a strike happened shippers would divert volume to FDX and USPS. It may get there a little later than normal but it will get there .You think anyone cares about the teamsters working at Ups except the teamsters? I read an article this morning that if you include those unemployed, those who have given up looking for work and those working part time that want to work full time, that is 30 million people. Bet they would love to have a high paying job at UPS.

 

[FracusBrown]

so you are saying that if ups was in control of my pension like they are in cotrol of management health plans they would not screw with it ? do you have some ocean view property in arizona or a bridge in brooklyn you would like to sell me ?

I'm saying a union employee is covered by a legally binding bargaining agreement as well as ERISA. They can't reduce or negatively modify your pension any more than they can take your wages if it's covered by a bargaining agreement. Management has no bargaining agreement or employment contract. As long as it's not illegal, management benefits, pension and pay can be modified as the company sees fit.

This is exactly the hype and mis-information that fooled the Teamster represented employees into screwing themselves out of a good deal.

 

[Babagounj]

Don't you get it, if a strike happened shippers would divert volume to FDX and USPS. It may get there a little later than normal but it will get there .

Given what has happened in '97, both FDX and USPS knew what was coming, yet they did not have the resources to handle the extra volume . A strike of just a few days would cripple every shipper.
{ the first time the USPS made a profit was because of the strike in '78, but it took them several weeks to get their operations up to speed, mandatory 10 hr days for all }.