The Immigration Issue
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moreluck
golden ticket member
Here's some additional L.A. Times blurbs......
In 2004, there were more than 70,000 non-Mexicans caught trying to enter the U.S. — through Mexico! They came from Brazil, Syria, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iraq, China and 120 other countries.
Last year in Los Angeles County, more than 30,000 criminal aliens who served jail sentences were released back into the community instead of being deported.
"Nearly 70 illegal immigrants packed into a small "drop house" in Willowbrook were discovered Friday by law enforcement officers, underscoring the difficulty authorities have faced in cracking down on human smuggling in Southern California."
"He said that the immigration agency, a part of the Department of Homeland Security, had made 1,057 arrests since February, when it announced the anti-gang initiative. Of those, Chertoff estimated, about 950 were illegal immigrants who, he said, "are subject to being removed."
Initially, authorities focused on Mara Salvatrucha, a violent gang commonly known as MS-13, which is rooted in Central America but has branches in Los Angeles, the Washington, D.C., area and elsewhere. MS-13 members accounted for about half the arrests, Chertoff said."
In 2004, there were more than 70,000 non-Mexicans caught trying to enter the U.S. — through Mexico! They came from Brazil, Syria, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iraq, China and 120 other countries.
Last year in Los Angeles County, more than 30,000 criminal aliens who served jail sentences were released back into the community instead of being deported.
"Nearly 70 illegal immigrants packed into a small "drop house" in Willowbrook were discovered Friday by law enforcement officers, underscoring the difficulty authorities have faced in cracking down on human smuggling in Southern California."
"He said that the immigration agency, a part of the Department of Homeland Security, had made 1,057 arrests since February, when it announced the anti-gang initiative. Of those, Chertoff estimated, about 950 were illegal immigrants who, he said, "are subject to being removed."
Initially, authorities focused on Mara Salvatrucha, a violent gang commonly known as MS-13, which is rooted in Central America but has branches in Los Angeles, the Washington, D.C., area and elsewhere. MS-13 members accounted for about half the arrests, Chertoff said."
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Just ran across this story on Drudge.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/26/AR2006042602191_pf.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/26/AR2006042602191_pf.html
Moreluck found this and was having a couple of technical issues getting it to post so I'm posting it for her:Slothrop said:
I found this in the L.A. Times Archives. I couldn't get the whole thing because you have to pay for it. This was the "free" part....
IMMIGRATION Equal Treatment for L.A.'s Criminals
Abstract (Document Summary) Protecting civil liberties is vitally important, but in this instance, it does not trump the need for more effective law enforcement against crimes increasingly committed by illegal immigrants. According to Heather MacDonald of the Manhattan Institute, 95% of the hundreds of outstanding homicide warrants (and 60% of outstanding felony warrants) in L.A. are for illegal immigrants. More than half of the city's homicides are gang- related. The National Youth Gang Center, a private group, estimates there are 100,000 gang members in L.A. County, and that illegal immigrants make up a substantial part of these gangs. Of the membership of the notorious 18th Street gang, estimated at 20,000, fully 60% are illegal aliens, according to a 1995 report by the state Department of Justice.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Interesting & timely....tonight on our L.A. news station Ch. 4 (KNBC) they are having a special about the alarming numbers of pregnant women crossing the border to give birth in the U.S. so their babies can be citizens. They wouldn't plan a special if it wasn't a huge problem.
wily_old_vet
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the partial link. I looked up the Manhattan Institute which describes itself as Libertarian. While I can be counted a solidly in the "right" column I still struggle with this particular statistic. Whether it is true or not I strongly believe that the border needs to be closed to illegal immigration. I read somewhere that using the word "illegal" is like using the "N" word I guess I too am now considered a racist. So be it. Also I was watching a story about the rape case at Duke. Underneath the speaker there was a statistic saying that 11% of the student body of Duke was black while 40% of the population of the US is black. That number struck me as high. Can anybody help me here since in the last census Hispanics passed blacks as the largest minority in the country. That would mean they would have to be at least 40.1% of the population and that would leave only 19.9% for whites, Asians, etc.
tieguy
Banned
wily_old_vet said:
Its one of the interesting arguments presented by the left. If you identify any group of people whose membership contains people of color with any type of label then you are automatically "labeled" a racist. Thus if you identify a group of people who are in this country illegally and any of their members are non-white by calling them illegal alliens you are automatically "labeled" a racist. This allows the left to put the right on the defensive and thus keep the right off topic at all times.
If you identify documented criminal activity taking place due to lax border control and express concerns over this criminal activity then you automatically become labeled a xenophobe. This term is again meant to put the person on the defensive and thus keep you from discussing the serious criminal activity taking place on the border.
If you are a true blue liberal you are exempt from any labeling condemnation. Keep in mind you will usually find very few minorities that employ such illogical labeling conventions. The labeling abuses are usually determined by the ultra liberal white carpetbagger who thinks they have been given some god given right to police racist labeling while freely employing counter labeling tactics .
Isn't that right tyrone-slothrope-susan. Or is it left?
tieguy
Banned
cheryl said:
interesting. Slothrope explain this to me please. If I present some individual from the right with impeccable credentials you will dig up what the person ate for breakfast 25 years ago if it helps discredit this persons reputation.
But yet here you were unable to find an article that was written by the LA times and tried to make the article a figment of the rights imagination?
moreluck
golden ticket member
Slothrop....you said there was no link to the L.A. Times......and there really is. I just wasn't willing to fork out the cash to prove a point to you.. The full article from the Times archive with all the percentages costs to view. I provided the shortened form which was free.
So, it WAS in the Times !!!
So, it WAS in the Times !!!
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
It would seem things are facts when they support the view being taken. Those same "facts" in someone else's posts are deemed to be false. My, who are we to believe.
Next thing you know, what I see as blue is really red, and boys are really girls. I guess Ive just been taught wrong.
Bottom line is that when we started putting criminals away for 25 or more for the third strike, that left a void. In nature, a void will not exist for long, as something will fill that void.
And now we have those filling that void.
Interesting. Illegal border crossers. Criminals from the time they set foot in this land, but we seem unable to call them what they are and deal with them in the proper manner. All because of what? Bankrupting our economy, raising crime to new levels both of frequency and intensity, and because of the bleeding hearts, causing problems with multi language signs everywhere.
And these are the only immigrants in the history of this fine country that have demanded that we surrender our identity to meld ours into theirs. And in the interests of not offending anyone, we have surrendered. Our identity and our country.
d
PS
Susie knew it the whole time. She was just pullin your leg again, try and get you to doubt yourself. Same ole Susie. Create a smiggin of self doubt, and then demolish the person before they have a chance to right themselves.
You think with all the time on her hands and search engines she didnt know?
Next thing you know, what I see as blue is really red, and boys are really girls. I guess Ive just been taught wrong.
Bottom line is that when we started putting criminals away for 25 or more for the third strike, that left a void. In nature, a void will not exist for long, as something will fill that void.
And now we have those filling that void.
Interesting. Illegal border crossers. Criminals from the time they set foot in this land, but we seem unable to call them what they are and deal with them in the proper manner. All because of what? Bankrupting our economy, raising crime to new levels both of frequency and intensity, and because of the bleeding hearts, causing problems with multi language signs everywhere.
And these are the only immigrants in the history of this fine country that have demanded that we surrender our identity to meld ours into theirs. And in the interests of not offending anyone, we have surrendered. Our identity and our country.
d
PS
Susie knew it the whole time. She was just pullin your leg again, try and get you to doubt yourself. Same ole Susie. Create a smiggin of self doubt, and then demolish the person before they have a chance to right themselves.
You think with all the time on her hands and search engines she didnt know?
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moreluck
golden ticket member
""There will be 2 to 3 million people hitting the streets in Los Angeles alone. "
I am not looking forward to the May 1st event. 2-3 million people, no matter what color or race, is trouble in the streets of L.A. There's always the few bad apples that will start something.
I am not looking forward to the May 1st event. 2-3 million people, no matter what color or race, is trouble in the streets of L.A. There's always the few bad apples that will start something.
To All of You,
An op-ed is not a fact. It is an opinion. Saying that an opinion is published in the LA Times, or any other paper is not a reflection on that paper, only on the author of the article. The cut and paste artists claim it was a news article in the LA Times, which is just plain false. As moreluck pointed out, statistics can be made to support whatever agenda one wishes. I think the phrase is 'figures lie, liars figure'.
I will repeat myself, I see a bunch of opinions based on fear and ignorance, and have yet to see any of you pose a viable solution to the problem of illegal immigration (yes, it is a problem). The misinformation presented is astounding. Let me highlight a few tidbits:
I could go on, but frankly, it's not worth it. You all better face the fact that Mexicans have always crossed the border to America, it just wasn't always illegal to do so. Read some history.
One more point. I am more worried about something really dangerous being smuggled in through containers in our ports, than over the fence in Nogales, yet the (Republican) Congress refuses to do anything about that. $14.5 billion in tax breaks to the oil companies, no problem; security for our ports, too expensive!
An op-ed is not a fact. It is an opinion. Saying that an opinion is published in the LA Times, or any other paper is not a reflection on that paper, only on the author of the article. The cut and paste artists claim it was a news article in the LA Times, which is just plain false. As moreluck pointed out, statistics can be made to support whatever agenda one wishes. I think the phrase is 'figures lie, liars figure'.
I will repeat myself, I see a bunch of opinions based on fear and ignorance, and have yet to see any of you pose a viable solution to the problem of illegal immigration (yes, it is a problem). The misinformation presented is astounding. Let me highlight a few tidbits:
The article in question was not 'written by the LA Times' it was written as an op-ed by a right-wing pundit. You can agree with her, but to state her opinion as fact is plain wrong.tie said:
I'm constantly amazed by your ignorance. If there are approx. 12 million illegal immigrants in the US, you would have us believe that every one of them is of voting age and living in S. Cal? No credibility and asinine would apply to your statement. The latest figures show about 2.5 million in all of California. One thing to bear in mind, since many of the children of illegals were born in the US, they are already citizens, and many are approaching the age of majority. All of their children will be Americans, as well. Better learn to live with it.tie said:
Dan, I live in the Southwest, Mexican immigrants hardly bankrupt our economy, in fact, they keep it going. There would be no building trade without them, let alone all of the work they do in the service industry. Where I am the signs are in English, and every Mexican I have had the pleasure of communicating with is eager to learn English, and assimilate just as quickly as they can. Frankly, as a generalization (I know, tough to generalize), I have never meant a more honest, hard working, polite, family orientated group of people. Please see the article from the Las Cruces Sun, just published today(note-- it is a news article, not an op-ed):dan said:
I could go on, but frankly, it's not worth it. You all better face the fact that Mexicans have always crossed the border to America, it just wasn't always illegal to do so. Read some history.
One more point. I am more worried about something really dangerous being smuggled in through containers in our ports, than over the fence in Nogales, yet the (Republican) Congress refuses to do anything about that. $14.5 billion in tax breaks to the oil companies, no problem; security for our ports, too expensive!
moreluck said:Well, slap all of us ignorant people with a wet noodle !! We ought to be ashamed of ourselves for never having lernt to read or cipher. We're all just too stoopid to debate on yer level. So why are you hangin' out here?? Must like feeling souperior. duh.1
Speak for yourself.
I don't like to see a misrepresentation of an important issue, that's why I posted.
Why would you expect trouble in LA May 1? There were no problems during the last march, why now?
PS---here's one of the best plans I've seen on the immigration problem:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060506015207/http://www.pederson2006.com/immigration.asp
What do you think?
moreluck
golden ticket member
"Why would you expect trouble in LA May 1? There were no problems during the last march, why now?"
Because the last march was a bunch of high schoolers getting out of class to walk up onto the 101 freeway and nearly get themselves killed by oncoming traffic. This time they're talking about 2-3 million people in the streets. We don't have enough police to cover that kind of crowd control should anything erupt. I'm hoping their estimated numbers are way off.
Because the last march was a bunch of high schoolers getting out of class to walk up onto the 101 freeway and nearly get themselves killed by oncoming traffic. This time they're talking about 2-3 million people in the streets. We don't have enough police to cover that kind of crowd control should anything erupt. I'm hoping their estimated numbers are way off.
moreluck said:
Moreluck, the last march was 500,000 people, and though I'm sure there were some students involved, the vast majority wee not 'high schoolers getting out of class', as least according to a news article from the LA Times. In fact in the video they provided, I couldn't identify anyone that I would call a 'high schooler'. Perhaps you were there and saw things differently?
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
His plans have too many loop holes in it. and whats with this "pay a fine" crap.
I say first and foremost, if the person does not want to learn to speak English, then send them back. IF they do not work, send them back.
From what you have posted, the Mexicans in your area are totally different than the Mexicans here. To them it is a matter of pride for them not to learn English. A kind of UP YOURS if you will.
d
I say first and foremost, if the person does not want to learn to speak English, then send them back. IF they do not work, send them back.
From what you have posted, the Mexicans in your area are totally different than the Mexicans here. To them it is a matter of pride for them not to learn English. A kind of UP YOURS if you will.
d
