The Immigration Issue

[tieguy]

I agree that the law should be enforced, but there is a complication. Some of the immigrants have had children in the US, and since they were born in the US, the kids are now citizens. Frankly, I believe that this should be changed and that citizenship should only be awarded to children of legal citizens, but I believe that this requires a further modification of the constitition. I think the situation has spun so far out of control that it is beyond their ability to fix.

Retired I really don't think the issue is that complicated. I don't believe citizenship earned illegally should be granted. If they were born here due to their mother illegally entering the country then the child should not earn status as an american born citizen. That is the biggest scam the liberals have sold us to complicate the immigration issue. Once you grant the child citizenship you then hear slothrope crying "don't break up the family".

 

[retiredone]

I don't believe citizenship earned illegally should be granted. If they were born here due to their mother illegally entering the country then the child should not earn status as an american born citizen.

TieGuy

I agree with you that is the way it should be. However, I believe that from a legal standpoint, they are citizens

Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment states, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."

Much as I would like it to be otherwise, it would take an amendment to the constitution, not simply a change of law to deprive these folks of cititzenship.

Again, I agree it shouldn't be so...but it is. This is not a liberal viewpoint. It is in our constitution.

 

[dannyboy]

and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

Retired

This is where tie and I think that the rub lies. You forget that they have to be born here AND be subject to the jurisdiction of. I dont think as a criminal you subject yourself to the jurisdiction of anything or anybody in the USA. I also think that this should include being subject to learning the language of the country.

The criminals are not under the jurisdiction of the law, they are in violation of that law. So while not a legal scholar, that would appear to me to be the deciding factor in revoking the right to citizenship just on the basis of location of birth.

d

 

[tieguy]

Agreed you should not be able to gain citizenship as a result of criminal activity.

 

[BLAZERBOY]

Here is why I don't undertand. All the imigrants are forming into one big group and protesting. How come our goverment isn't out at these ralleys checking for VISAS? I beleive that it is ignorant for someone to dispute a freedom that they have not even been granted. Some people have been here for 20 years illegaly. So what the hell have they been doing the whole time? If they werent't trying to get a VISA after twenty years than whos to say they ever would have?

 

[tieguy]

The first thing they should do is over haul the leadership of the Social security administration. Many of these illegals are basically living on borrowed social security numbers also known as identity theft. The SSA has not come out to investigate. Therefore they are not doing their job and they have contributed to the immigration crisis we have. If they actually did their job then then we would not have 12 million illegals in this country.

 

[Slothrop]

The president was asked his thoughts on the Spanish version of our National Anthem. He said that our National Anthem should be sung in English and the people doing it should learn English so they can sing it that way. (paraphrased)

Interestingly, Bush had no problem with the National Anthem in Spanish when he was trying to get elected, and even at his first inauguration....http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/02/national-anthem-sung-in-spanish-at-first-bush-inaugural/

 

[moreluck]

T.S. Nothing you can say can piss me off today...it's my birthday and I'm having an Italian dinner for a dozen neighbors....lots to do!!

 

[Slothrop]

T.S. Nothing you can say can piss me off today...it's my birthday and I'm having an Italian dinner for a dozen neighbors....lots to do!!

Happy Birthday!
Not trying to piss anyone off. I agreed with you on the Anthem in English thing, remember. Just thought it was a bit disingenuous to make a fuss about it now.

 

[Jones]

Retired I really don't think the issue is that complicated. I don't believe citizenship earned illegally should be granted. If they were born here due to their mother illegally entering the country then the child should not earn status as an american born citizen. That is the biggest scam the liberals have sold us to complicate the immigration issue. Once you grant the child citizenship you then hear slothrope crying "don't break up the family".

Blaming it on "the liberals" is a bit of a stretch, the precendent is actually a Supreme Court decision from 1898: (Text courtesy of Wikipedia)

The provisions in Section 1 ensure that children born on United States soil, with a very small number of exceptions, are U.S. citizens. This type of guarantee—legally termed "jus soli", or "right of the territory"— does not exist in most of Western Europe, although it is common in the Americas.
The phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" indicates that there are some exceptions to the universal rule that birth on U.S. soil automatically grants citizenship. The Supreme Court precedent set by the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark interprets the exception narrowly to cover only the following:

• Children born to foreign diplomats
• Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States
• Native Americans born on tribal lands

Under this interpretation, the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants and tourists are automatically U.S. citizens.

 

[dannyboy]

Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States

Under this interpretation, the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants and tourists are automatically U.S. citizens.

Yeppers, that is what we got. Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the US of A. So we gonna let them be citizens?

I think the supreme court needs to change what they decided over 100 years ago, cause times they are a changin.

I still believe that they do not have the right under the constitution to automatic citizenship when granting that right is the result of criminal activity.

As far as believing Wikipedia as the authority on issues...............

d

 

[Slothrop]

Yeppers, that is what we got. Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the US of A. So we gonna let them be citizens?

I think the supreme court needs to change what they decided over 100 years ago, cause times they are a changin.

I still believe that they do not have the right under the constitution to automatic citizenship when granting that right is the result of criminal activity.

As far as believing Wikipedia as the authority on issues...............

d

I believe that the 14th Amendment is considered to be part of the Constitution.

 

[tieguy]

I believe that the 14th Amendment is considered to be part of the Constitution.

sure for those legally born here. not for those illegally born here. Kick them out.

 

[Slothrop]

sure for those legally born here. not for those illegally born here. Kick them out.

Children born to foreign diplomats
Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States
Native Americans born on tribal lands

Those are the only people born here that are 'illegal', and not automatically American citizens at birth. What part of this do you not understand?:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."

 

[tieguy]

Children born to foreign diplomats
Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States
Native Americans born on tribal lands

Those are the only people born here that are 'illegal', and not automatically American citizens at birth. What part of this do you not understand?:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Interesting that you would quote me the passage on my right to life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness as you try to suppress my right to those same values. I believe the authors of the 14th ammendment can not be held responsible for the foresight to see all issues that would arise. I believe I have the right to voice my opinion that citizenship gained as a result of an illegal crime is not protected by the 14th ammendment. You have an obligation to cherish the fact that I am exercising my liberty and voicing my opinion and to STFU out of respect and not to try to suppress my opinion.

What part of this do you not understand.

 

[dannyboy]

Citizenship in the USA has become such a watered down thing that it has lost is specialness. It is an honor for those of us that were not born with that right, to obtain citizenship, and to do so, we must show the respect to the country that has welcomed us in. We have to honor the legal system, even with all its faults and problems, because it is better than most of the rest of the worlds systems. But to say that someone that breaks the law can become or have their children become a citizen, that is a fallacy.

The bottom line is this. You are pregnant and come here to have your child. The liberals say that if your child is born here, that child is a citizen. Now, because the constitution does not provide citizenship to the parents, we ship them back, but the child stays here. But we can not have that now can we. Breaking up families? So we cant send those poor mothers back and have the children stay here, so what do we do? But the law says send them back.

That is why we need to enforce the laws we have. Tough stuff if your child is born here because of an illegal act. Illegal acts, regardless of their intended outcomes are still illegal. And the law states that you can not become a citizen of the USA if you are not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA. These people do not subject themselves to our jurisdiction. Therefor they can not, nor should their offspring be allowed to become citizens.

d

 

[Slothrop]

Interesting that you would quote me the passage on my right to life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness as you try to suppress my right to those same values. I believe the authors of the 14th ammendment can not be held responsible for the foresight to see all issues that would arise. I believe I have the right to voice my opinion that citizenship gained as a result of an illegal crime is not protected by the 14th ammendment. You have an obligation to cherish the fact that I am exercising my liberty and voicing my opinion and to STFU out of respect and not to try to suppress my opinion.

What part of this do you not understand.

No one is denying your rights. You can say whatever you wish, I can also point out the flaws in what you say. You telling me to ShutTheFUp is a violation of that which you pretend to honor. It is not illegal for a Mexican to enter this country. It is not illegal for a Mexican to give birth in this country. You wish to deny them the rights given by the Creator, and voiced by our Founding Fathers. You sir, are an embarrassment.

 

[tieguy]

I've seen your type too long.

You tell me its not illegal for anyone to sneak across the border.

You tell me I should now take the person who broke the law and snuck across the border and have children by making them a citizen as a reward for breaking the law.

You tell me I am a xenophobe if I worry about the criminal activity along the border.

You will next tell me I should not be upset when that person sneaking across the border then takes down a building and kills thousands of innocent americans.

You maam are a disgrace and embarrasment to law abiding americans everywhere. {deleted by moderator}

 

[dannyboy]

Susie

Just a thought or two on your post of

It is not illegal for a Mexican to enter this country. It is not illegal for a Mexican to give birth in this country. You wish to deny them the rights given by the Creator, and voiced by our Founding Fathers.

Actually it is illegal for a Mexican to cross the border into the USA without the proper paperwork. And our founding fathers would cringe at what our country has become. Ever heard of "those that dont work dont eat"?

But let me draw your thought one step further if I may.

Rights given by our Creator. Last I heard, he really could care less where you live. But then again, if you really believe in the Creator and His all knowing, all power, etc, then he would have been in control where and when you are born. So that would make you think that people in Mexico were planned by the Creator to be in Mexico. It is only by the will of the individual that the will of the Creator is subverted and subjected to the people.

Also, rights given by the Creator. Like birth. It would seem that those rights do not exist in our society, but instead rely on the government to declare you a human or not. It would seem that the Creator determined you to be a human at conception, but in our country, that right is given to the state. Before you are born, you are but a fetus, but low and behold, you take your first breath and you get a birth certificate that makes you a human.

See, you can kill the unborn without any legal issues it seems, but yet you kill someone that has a birth certificate........

I dont understand how that works into the plan that the Creator had in the beginning.

I guess I am just to stay confused. And to work and pay my taxes so those that dont work and pay taxes can draw a paycheck from our government.

d

 

[tieguy]

Perhaps we could take the insanity one step further and award citizenship to an aborted fetus of an alien that snuck across this border.

Again I don't believe the authors of the 14th ammendment could have foreseen all possible issues. I don't believe they ever intended to reward the child of someone who illegally snuck across the border. I believe our entire legal system is based on punishing not rewarding illegal activity.