The Real Micheal Moore?

[moreluck]

Sorry, Jones......it was mentioned on a program on one of the news channels and I remember thinking at the time that not only shouldn't they be in the school, they shouldn't even be in the country.

A teacher(my neighbor) who taught in Texas says in a grade school situation, he had kids drpped off to get an education and a meal and they weren't even registered there.

 

[moreluck]

Found this blurb......

Several states — Texas, California, New York, Utah, Illinois, Washington, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Kansas — have passed state laws providing in-state tuition benefits to illegal aliens who have attended high school in the state for three or more years. Similar legislation is pending in Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, Maryland (legislation passed, but awaiting governor’s signature), Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. (Wisconsin also passed such a law, but the governor vetoed it.) Also, some schools in Georgia provide in-state tuition benefits to illegal aliens. The Texas law also allows illegal aliens to receive state student financial aid.

These state laws attempt to circumvent the federal law by simply not asking students whether they are in the US legally. (The California law, AB 540, requires the student to file an affidavit that he/she has filed an application to legalize his/her immigration status or intends to file an application as soon as he/she is eligible to do so. So California doesn’t even attempt to maintain the fiction that the school is unaware of the student’s immigration status.) They also circumvent the law by basing eligibility for in-state tuition on attendance at or graduation from an in-state high school and not on state residence.
Virginia passed a law barring illegal aliens from receiving in-state tuition, but it was vetoed by the governor. The state attorney general then stated that existing state law requires state colleges and universities to charge illegal aliens higher tuition. Legislation to ban in-state tuition for illegal aliens is pending in Alabama, Alaska, Florida, Mississippi, and North Carolina. A bill to ban in-state tuition for illegal aliens was defeated in Arizona in March 2005.

 

[moreluck]

From CA.

In clear violation of federal law and the U.S. constitution, California offers subsidized in-state tuition benefits to illegal aliens, while denying those same benefits to U.S. citizens.

That sucks !!

 

[Jones]

Well, paying in-state tuition rates is a far cry from going to school for free, here in Virginia anyone who has resided in the state for at least a year qualifies. I'm not sure about California but here the in-state rate is half of the out of state rate. If you're going to U.V.A or VA Tech it still ain't cheap.

We obviously disagree on whether or not illegal immigrants should be allowed to attend US schools.

Leaving that aside though, I'm still not clear on how allowing illegal immigrants to qualify for in-state tuition affects the amount of money that your children have to pay. They are either in-state or out of state, no?

 

[moreluck]

Jones...for instance, if my kid in CA. decides he wants to go to college in Colorado, he would have to pay double the price a Colorado kid would have to pay........but an illegal alien can get the half price rate. We should give breaks to OUR kids first, not illegals.

 

[Sammie]

Diesel, I fully agree that our health care, health coverage, hospitals and nursing homes are hardly perfect. We on this forum have already discussed the disgraceful facilities on our Indian reservations and at Walter Reed.[/i]

Don't underestimate the competense of a Cuban Doctor, they sudy home and abroad in many int'l medical communites and apply their skills worldwide.True some defect after witnessing freedom, family and cashing in on capitalism. As a boy my pediactric doctor was a Cuban who studied in Cuba. And my sons grew up seeing a Cuban born Pediatric as well. So I would feel very confident to recieve treatment over their.

I can hardly disagree that the Cuban doctors you speak of and the educations they received here and abroad were substandard. But you must admit that these doctors you mention chose to live and practice here in this country.

And yes, Iraq is a major issue here. As is the education of illegal immigrant children. In 1996 alone, California spent $2 billion educating illegal immigrant kids. And tuition breaks for bright, motivated but illegal students is plaguing legislators. Why should U.S. taxpayers have to continue footing the bill for illegals?

We also have current issues regarding a possible draft, the Bible, crime, homeland security, China, Korea, the outsourcing of our jobs. But this country is also the wealthiest, strongest and most influential nation in the world, giving away $2.3 trillion in foreign aid to more than 150 countries in the past fifty years.

There will always be room for
improvement in America but for us to embrace any of the concepts found in a third world country is nothing short of preposterous.

 

[satellitedriver]

Diesel96,
I have no problem with the competence of foreign trained Cuban doctors.
I have been treated by them and grewup around the leading forensic doctor in Houston, TX, who was a fully trained, in Cuba, doctor.
The difference is that you and your sons were treated in America not in Cuba.
It is not the education or the devotion of the doctors that is in question. What is in question is the infrastructure and ability of the Cuban government to provide excellent healthcare to the average cane-cutting Joe. The answer is NO.
I would be confident that you would be disappointed, when you are in the hospital in Cuba and find out there are not enough beds,or medicines, or pain killers unless you have some cash.
In America you can walk into any emergency room and recieve care, at no cost to you.
We do not have the perfect healthcare system, but we have the one that royalty and the rich from around the world come to.
PAX

 

[tieguy]

Don't underestimate the competense of a Cuban Doctor, they sudy home and abroad in many int'l medical communites and apply their skills worldwide.True some defect after witnessing freedom, family and cashing in on capitalism. As a boy my pediactric doctor was a Cuban who studied in Cuba. And my sons grew up seeing a Cuban born Pediatric as well. So I would feel very confident to recieve treatment over their.

And I've had good medical care from a german doctor before but don't think I would have volunteered to recieve any care provided me in a german concentration camp. Will you be flying out of country to take advantage of cubas superior medical service?

 

[diesel96]

In America you can walk into any emergency room and recieve care, at no cost to you.

I glad you brought that up,many ER's in high concentrated urban areas are filled pass capacity with hugh waits, many people are turned away for non-life threatning injuries and sent to other facilities.
Having uninsured people go to the ER and if there not turned away, is what drives up the cost of health insurance. Many uninsured people and mothers with children who didn't have health insurance would come to the ER - for colds, flu. Each ER visit can cost hundreds of dollars (at the very least). Many can't afford it,so they send the bill to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500. That means you and I pay for it,hence our rates and prices keep growing.

And I've had good medical care from a german doctor before but don't think I would have volunteered to recieve any care provided me in a german concentration camp.

If you are jewish I would agree,but if you are a fascist Nazi,why not? I'm sure many of them did recieve care.

 

[satellitedriver]

In America you can walk into any emergency room and recieve care, at no cost to you.

I glad you brought that up,many ER's in high concentrated urban areas are filled pass capacity with hugh waits, many people are turned away for non-life threatning injuries and sent to other facilities.
Having uninsured people go to the ER and if there not turned away, is what drives up the cost of health insurance. Many uninsured people and mothers with children who didn't have health insurance would come to the ER - for colds, flu. Each ER visit can cost hundreds of dollars (at the very least). Many can't afford it,so they send the bill to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500. That means you and I pay for it,hence our rates and prices keep growing..

And your point is that it is better in Cuba?
Now you turn the conversation to cost of care, not quality of care.
I am trying to understand your logic, please forgive me.
In a communistic society every one pays for everyone else.
(In the ideal sense)
Are you now making the argument that it is wrong that we who have insurance have to pay more for the others who are not willing to?
Where do you propose the money will come from with socialistic national healthcare?
Simply answer.
More taxes.
That the democratic way.
PAX

 

[tieguy]

If you are jewish I would agree,but if you are a fascist Nazi,why not? I'm sure many of them did recieve care.[/quote]

Ah I see, I must be a cuban communista to appreciate a cuban hospital. That perhaps explains mike moores appreciation for cuban medic aid.

Well diesel your defense of mike moores twisted perspective has you badmouthing much in this country. Is there anything in the US that you like?

 

[wkmac]

Is there anything in the US that you like?

His Harley?

 

[diesel96]

If you are jewish I would agree,but if you are a fascist Nazi,why not? I'm sure many of them did recieve care.

Ah I see, I must be a cuban communista to appreciate a cuban hospital. That perhaps explains mike moores appreciation for cuban medic aid.

Well diesel your defense of mike moores twisted perspective has you badmouthing much in this country. Is there anything in the US that you like?[/quote]

Oh I forget,when anybody disagree's with hard-line republicans their un-American and un-patriotic.... I also forgot you guys have the patent on "Americana". Jeez, what got into me, I didn't realize critizing healthcare in the US makes one a communist US hater. Your right, we should all conform and not question our political benevolent far right Dictators. Where do we line up for the free Gov't Kool Aide

 

[satellitedriver]

Where do we line up for the free Gov't Kool Aide

Just mark your ballot for Hillary, then you will get your wish.
And, I hope you are thirsty.
PAX

 

[tieguy]

Oh I forget,when anybody disagree's with hard-line republicans their un-American and un-patriotic....

now you distort the picture. I'm not talking about your right to have general dislikes of this country. I'm talking about specifically trying to justify and support mike moore in his anti US , unpatriotic actions. This country going back to JFK's time has been very specific about their feelings about cubas communist state. So when mike moore specifically goes to cuba and tries to use that country to put down the US with a bunch of contrived, staged BS then yes he is being very unpatriotic. Your zeal in defending mike moore and his rabid anti US actions then leads me to question where your loyalty lies with this country. Your longwinded posts where you speak very negatively of this country leads me to question whether you therefore have anything positive to say about this country. Anything at all?

 

[tieguy]

Another thing I find in your response Diesel which seems to be a common response amongst the liberal democrats is the anti patriot response. Many in your group sharing your view appear to despise the concept of being a patriot. They think its somehow beneath them to have feelings of loyalty and pride towards ones country. So they typically try to discredit the concept in some way as you did. The liberal democrat tends to often show strong feelings of hate for their country and seem to abhor the concept of patriotism. You seem to indicate the same feelings based on the responses you provide here.

Are you a patriot?

Is there anything about this country that gives you any feelings of pride?

 

[diesel96]

Are you a patriot?

A patriot is based on a political philosophy comprised of men and women of ALL social,economic,ethnic and racial backgrounds backgrounds. Not exclusively white hardline christian patriots, who try to shove their morals, beliefs and rheteric down peoples throats.

True Patriotism stresses liberty and rights as central values, gives the PEOPLE as a whole the right, power and authority to govern our Gov't or an external entity with excessive control. Patrioits rejects aristocracy and inherited political power, expects citizens to be independent and calls on them to perform civic duties, and is strongly opposed to corruption.


So the answer is : True Patriot= Yes
Christian Patriot= No
New England Patriot=No

The real question is ...Are you a conformist?....I find in your responses the passive-ness and the unwillingness to question authority that is allowing the degeneration of America. I find many in your group sharing your views that America "Today" would still be considered "England" if True Patriots didn't question and raise awareness to the masses to rebel and revolt!
Before you question one's patriotism, take a look in the mirror.

 

[tieguy]

Are you a patriot?

A patriot is based on a political philosophy comprised of men and women of ALL social,economic,ethnic and racial backgrounds backgrounds. Not exclusively white hardline christian patriots, who try to shove their morals, beliefs and rheteric down peoples throats.

This my friend is known as a dodge. You have posted some very negative things about this country. Are you a proud american who loves his country and takes pride in the many positives or are one who lives in his view of the negatives and constantly finds himself aligning with the mike moores of the world.

True Patriotism stresses liberty and rights as central values, gives the PEOPLE as a whole the right, power and authority to govern our Gov't or an external entity with excessive control. Patrioits rejects aristocracy and inherited political power, expects citizens to be independent and calls on them to perform civic duties, and is strongly opposed to corruption.

Then I'm shocked that you align yourself with the democrats beliefs you present here. The democrats have always believed in large government beaurocracy and less individual rights. The democrats have always sold the vision of misery to their constituents. The message is you are worthless and oppressed with no hope of ever living the good life. You're only hope is these handouts which I the benevolent democrat am now bestowing on thee. No sir if that is your defintion of a true patriot then you can not possibly be that and keep selling the principles of the liberal democrat.

Everything you say sounds good but you have a conflict in principles that I do not understand. You have put down the concept of a man pulling himself up by his own bootstraps as the conservatives believe yet you claim you are for more individual rights. You can't have both. You defend the party of more government. More government means less individual rights.

 

[govols019]

You have posted some very negative things about this country.

I love my family but that doesn't mean I don't recognize things that we do wrong. Being honest about that doesn't mean I love them any less.

 

[diesel96]

Are you a patriot?

A patriot is based on a political philosophy comprised of men and women of ALL social,economic,ethnic and racial backgrounds backgrounds. Not exclusively white hardline christian patriots, who try to shove their morals, beliefs and rheteric down peoples throats.

This my friend is known as a dodge. You have posted some very negative things about this country. Are you a proud american who loves his country and takes pride in the many positives or are one who lives in his view of the negatives and constantly finds himself aligning with the mike moores of the world.

True Patriotism stresses liberty and rights as central values, gives the PEOPLE as a whole the right, power and authority to govern our Gov't or an external entity with excessive control. Patrioits rejects aristocracy and inherited political power, expects citizens to be independent and calls on them to perform civic duties, and is strongly opposed to corruption.

Then I'm shocked that you align yourself with the democrats beliefs you present here. The democrats have always believed in large government beaurocracy and less individual rights. The democrats have always sold the vision of misery to their constituents. The message is you are worthless and oppressed with no hope of ever living the good life. You're only hope is these handouts which I the benevolent democrat am now bestowing on thee. No sir if that is your defintion of a true patriot then you can not possibly be that and keep selling the principles of the liberal democrat.

Everything you say sounds good but you have a conflict in principles that I do not understand. You have put down the concept of a man pulling himself up by his own bootstraps as the conservatives believe yet you claim you are for more individual rights. You can't have both. You defend the party of more government. More government means less individual rights.

I gave you my answer. Why are you changing it,twisting it, adding false pretense to it?...Did they teach you this at Rupert Murdock University?

Is this who you based Patriotism from? A foriegn-born media executive.

As far as posting negative things about this country...It's all in the eyes of the beholder...and you my friend are blind. All you need to do is look at your Professor..Rupert