time studies

[tourists24]

As for disipline for running over or not meeting "demonstrared performance" I have never in 30 years seen it work.
Has anyone on this board seen it stick? Not a sup saying that he "knew a driver that was fired" but actually seen it. I have seen it tried many times and all I have seen is sups get ulsers and mental breakdowns or fired(i mean quit, sups never get fired) but the drivers are still driving and the sups come and go.

I actually have seen a "demonstrated performance" stick at panel before (once). you can PM me if you are really interested in the details but it is possible. In that case the driver was doing some things wrong on his own that wasnt consistent when ride alongs occurred. That being said, one firing out of xxx number of threats makes your point correct. If you go out, do your job, not look at your watch every 2 minutes, you'll be fine.

 

[toonertoo]

The sad thing is I cannot blame PAS. I have been like this every since they changed our numbers almost 3 yrs ago, the 5.8 seconds thing per pkg. We are getting ready to go on PAS> And everyone keeps telling me "you will get more work" I cant take anymore work. I used to have 80, now I have 120. And they took away my gravy and gave me crap. I have one road complet, on my route that I used to have when I took it. I cant make any time, I run all my air plus the other car in my group as they have decided, he can only take downtown. I get OCAs for his and the next loop guy coz hes no longer in area, and I only go there for 2 pu/s at 430, but I have to pull there by 3, for those, but my regs are not ready then. They have ridden with me, and I dont care, no one can show me what is wrong just to do better. I have a 1000 and just coz it fits they think I can deliver it. We all have gripes, and I appreciate the support browniehoud, and Im really not a whiner. Being the only female, I cant be or I will be singled out, for having PMS or whatever. But I know I run circles around most of the guys, but my time study is so bad now that they changed the areas on me, Ive been at this center 14, or 15 yrs and we havent had one.
In my heart I know the numbers dont matter, but it kills your soul when you have done the very best you can, have an outstanding work ethic, and still know you will be yelled at. The numbers before they changed them were fair, I could usually match or beat them and stop and smell the flowers. Now every day its b**ls to the wall. and Im lucky I can find time to pee. They have admitted and know there are 4 or 5 other routes who have the smae problem as me, but even when they know there is a problem, they refuse to fix it. Just keep whipping us like dogs.

 

[paidslave]

Along these lines. I've always run about 15 min over and my sphor has been 13-14 for over 15 years on the same route. After we started on pas I now run at least an hour over and get called on it daily. Now how in the world can a day like this be an under eight: 146 stops 76 miles 230 packages. Divide 8 into 146 lets see that is over 18 sph.

Can anybody enlighten me, I'm sick of being criticized just because we now have pas.

Excellent post! Some one here gets it.....Gets how to divide hours into stops..One thing you forgot was the building time to and from route minus your 8 hours....Which I can guess is 20 to 30 minutes each way. Makes you have 7 hours to perform. Divide 7 hours into 146 and they want over 20 stops per hour! And if you add your pickups stops per hour would increase sporhs even more!

Wow UPS ie doesn't play games?

Could it be this is why ups wants us to start before our start time?

 

[currahee]

Paid Slave UPS would never want you to work off the clock or through your lunch!!

 

[JustTired]

The next time they get on you about overallowed.....just stare at them, then look down at your watch, then look at them and ask "are you finished" and walk away.
Works every time!

 

[tourists24]

The next time they get on you about overallowed.....just stare at them, then look down at your watch, then look at them and ask "are you finished" and walk away.
Works every time!

I think the funniest response I ever heard was when I was a steward and they brought someone to the office and got onto them about the overallowed.... you know the "you were 1 1/2 hours over for the last three days" ... the response was simply "SO"......

was so funny because that's all he said, and mgt went ballistic. He just sat there and let them say their piece, and then went to his truck.

 

[Bad Gas!]

The next time they get on you about overallowed.....just stare at them, then look down at your watch, then look at them and ask "are you finished" and walk away.
Works every time!

I like that!!..It will confuse the sup's because they got 100 things to do in 5 minutes also...ahahaha

 

[feeder53]

I believe that Management "works as directed" also and that explains the change of attitude on the runs. Time studies are OK, but there are 1000 different variables so it is not an exact science.

 

[Fnix]

I believe that Management "works as directed" also and that explains the change of attitude on the runs. Time studies are OK, but there are 1000 different variables so it is not an exact science.

Exactly. Time studies are to find more efficient route methods. But the world is not perfect and we have weather, traffic, and human delay. But UPS does allow some le-way on over-allowed for these reasons. Is it enough? Probably not.

 

[Griff]

As a swing driver I can honestly say time studies, at least here, are a complete and total joke. Management themselves admit that the center needs to be relooped and restudied, but they still try to hold us to the numbers. By the way, I've been hearing this for 3 years now and nothing happens. On any given weekday, depending on the route, I'll run a good bit of bonus or be at least 1.5-2hrs overallowed. Now tell me how that's possible, using the same methods and work ethic on a daily basis? I'll give you a hint, it's not and that's why I tell them to go away. Come out and follow me, I have nothing to hide.

 

[Coldworld]

As a swing driver I can honestly say time studies, at least here, are a complete and total joke. Management themselves admit that the center needs to be relooped and restudied, but they still try to hold us to the numbers. By the way, I've been hearing this for 3 years now and nothing happens. On any given weekday, depending on the route, I'll run a good bit of bonus or be at least 1.5-2hrs overallowed. Now tell me how that's possible, using the same methods and work ethic on a daily basis? I'll give you a hint, it's not and that's why I tell them to go away. Come out and follow me, I have nothing to hide.

And the scary thing about it is that these are "averages" meaning that there are test studies that will do the route faster than you..this is something I have never understood. I am 1.5 hours over daily. I follow all the major methods, or at least the ones Im aware of. When leaving the car I put break on, grab the handrail, put heavy pkgs on step then grab when Im out, etc, etc. I spend very little interaction time with customers, I get a sig and get out, I walk the pace, and get in truck and go. I spend no time in back of truck and move all pkgs up to select area. I dont have a heavy bulky route, so I dont spend the time finding things. On pickups Im in and out, and I drive at the posted speed limit, so where will I make this time up????where Usually the things the sups suggest will only get you a few minutes, not 90 minutes. At first it bugged me but now its just a dishonesty thing from the company side of things. They are always talking about all the fidderent things that can distract us on a daily basic, just think about all the things that can and do happen daily. Why cant this bonus thing just be elimitated anyhow. Seems as the union doesnt even validate it, and sometimes it bites the company in the ass when a bonus driver wants work taken off because hes running 2 hours under and doesnt want anymore work. In my experience the only people who make bonus are folks that are picking up hundreds of pkgs that can have customers help or routes that have tight resi and lots of them. Most of the folks are 30-100 minutes over daily,,,I really dont believe theyre slacking either.

 

[browniehound]

Tooner,
I didn't know you were not on PAS yet, but you did say that the numbers were changed. So my statement stands. Tooner=constant, numbers=variable.

Fnix said that the company allows for some over allowance due to, people, weather, traffic, etc and its not enough. I have to agree with that.

During my last time study I was told I wasn't making the "start car routine" time. I'm short and have difficulty reaching over for the seatbelt and fastening it in one motion. If I wasn't making time on this, I can say I probably didn't make time on any of the other elements. I'm sure I couldn't no matter how fast I worked

This is why I think 1 hour over is an acceptable number. I'm a strong, young man, and If I really rush I can't scatch my route. I mean no offense to anyone, but how do they expect a man in his mid-fifties of an 120 lb female in her mid-fifties to make these numbers?

We are talking about delivering over 70's to residences now! Pottery Barn rugs and entire dressers weighing 149lbs that take up the entire center of your truck for the entire day. I say this because we are allowed a certain amount of time to select the package from the cargo area. Once that dresser is there you are now taking longer than your are allowed for 170 stops.

Yes, an extra 30 seconds per stop at 170 stops is now 1 hour+ right there.

Management might say "why didn't you make it your first stop?". I'm thinkging, Gee, now why didn't I think of that??

Two reasons. There was no safe(or dry) place to leave it, or the load is so stuffed that I can't get it out the rear door (these things can't even get through the bulkhead and the side door!!

I can think of some more but I'll leave it at that for now,

Brownie

 

[farmerbrown]

our center was time studied last year and the new time implemented a couple of weeks ago.before the new time studies we were accused of being dishonest(stealing time). now since we have the new time studies(center gained a lot of time avg of about 45 min a driver) they want to take work off routes since we now have to much work. now that people are running scratch or bonus we are working to hard, but when when ran over with the same work we are thieves. Had one route that ran 2 hrs over every day past managers were trying to fire and constantly riding with. He gained 2 hrs and 40 minutes and now runs bonus and all of a sudden they are scrambling to take work of him. Just my thoughts of the double standard.

Hey Brown that is the best news I have heard in years. It gives me a lot of hope for our center. I would like to know if any of the Sup's ever thanked you guys in the A.M. PCM for really bucking up and delivering for all those years when the study sucked? Did they get the grill out and have burgers and soda as a way of showing appreciation to all of you hardworking studs who took it on the chin every morning when the car went out with too much work? If that happened in my center I would have no problem forgiving them and some of the senior guys might not be such hardasses with our sup's. Of course I would razz them every chance I got but, I wouldn't mind stepping it up as often.

 

[toonertoo]

The best was today, I was told to call in to get reamed about my send agains.........
I said it rained 2 inches and we dont have any freaking dr bags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And if there is no where to leave it, what do you want me to do, stuff it in a sewer drain and leave a note??? He told me to be creative, maybe I should bag them with my own personal trash bags I took to work and sling them on the roof? Or the 50 pound Nutrisystem box, bag it and drop it over a fence?
Flavor of the month, send agains.
Yesterday my loader was off, I loaded my own truck in 1/2 hr, got out of the building 1/2 hr late, and was only 50 late, maybe that would send a message? I guess no one knew til start time my loader was off. Nope gave me 20 more.
The 5.8 seconds per package we lost, put me behind .50 before I leave the building, but overnight I was 1.75 late. I dont let it bug me like it used to. But it still does, as it means I work 9.5/ 10 every day, to make 8. But they tell us we have the best job in the valley, and yes we do, but...well you know.

 

[Harley Rider]

The best was today, I was told to call in to get reamed about my send agains.........
I said it rained 2 inches and we dont have any freaking dr bags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And if there is no where to leave it, what do you want me to do, stuff it in a sewer drain and leave a note??? He told me to be creative, maybe I should bag them with my own personal trash bags I took to work and sling them on the roof? Or the 50 pound Nutrisystem box, bag it and drop it over a fence?
Flavor of the month, send agains.
Yesterday my loader was off, I loaded my own truck in 1/2 hr, got out of the building 1/2 hr late, and was only 50 late, maybe that would send a message? I guess no one knew til start time my loader was off. Nope gave me 20 more.
The 5.8 seconds per package we lost, put me behind .50 before I leave the building, but overnight I was 1.75 late. I dont let it bug me like it used to. But it still does, as it means I work 9.5/ 10 every day, to make 8. But they tell us we have the best job in the valley, and yes we do, but...well you know.

Hang in there Tooner and don't let them get to you. Everytime I have to get on the clock and load my car I always put it in "other work" so I am not
penalized by the effectiveness percentage of the preload. Plus it doesn't make you over allowed before you even leave the building.

As far as send agains go I bring back at least 7 or 8 a day. I have two colleges in town and a ton of apartments. Nothing unusual for me to bring back 10 or 12 a day on top of normal send agains. They say anything I ask em if they want me to DR apartments.

 

[toonertoo]

we are suppose to dr apts?????

 

[brownmonster]

We can if it's a locked entrance and you can get in.

 

[Upslady20]

Our center manager got tired of the send agains at apartments so he had us sign a paper saying we would. Of course your told to use common sense.. well mine says people still from each other.. I only dr it if I know for a fact it is worthless.
Hang in there you will not gain any actual time with PAS but you will know what you have on your package car. I really like the new system we have had it a couple of years now. They will be relooping your center at that time so make sure you give them your input on what is wrong with your area.. and keep telling them until they listen. They want PAS to work so they will listen if you scream loud enough.
I have given up on having great numbers. I just do the job as instructed and make sure my customers are happy with the service. I have 8 years to go and will just keep my head held high knowing that I am doing the best I can even if no one else believes it.

 

[rod]

Aren't even "worthless packages" still automatically insured for up to $100.00?

 

[paidslave]

I was just thinking that maybe this was the plan all along. Raise the numbers...then after a period of time, lower them back down a little. You know.......like gas prices. Keep raising them and listen to you complain about $3.14/gal. Then lower them to under $3/gal. and you think you're getting a deal.

Seriously....I hope this is a trend as far as time studies go. Too many drivers working like dogs with suffering personal lives, suffering bodies and suffering safety records.

\


Good post! I really believe for the most part it comes down to how much is the company going to pay in each center, area , loop, district, hub ect. to be profitable.

Basically a budget for each of these listed. After they have the labor cost for this period and no more then the amount of labor to be spent. Is is then divided up per route. So it has nothing to do with how many doors or this and that that you have to open. And for sales leads if you get more work then you get less time to do it in so another route is not put in .

The classic one is when someone leave or retires and the loop needs some help they bury this route and change the time having a no brained rookie running like no tomorow racking up accidents in the interim. UPS then puts this route up for bid with a new estatblished MAR/or benchmark for the winning bidder!



Bottom line is they are going to pay only so much to perform a specific responsiblity and that is it. And if you make more per hour you will most definately get a worse allowance because you make more and more is expected in less time!

Many times they have blown these time studies because there isn't enough money to be spent on labor..One has to also understand that there is only enough labor to be spent to show wall street a profit.

This is why so many things make no sense when you have 150 stops not including pickups or what not an 9.5 planned day. And the next day you have 170 stops and they tell you that it is a 9.5 plan day.


Bottom line they move the work somewhere else and tell you to get off the clock asap regardless of 150 stops or 170!

The logical exuses that absolutely blows most rational minds is that some sups, managers but not all give, will drive one literally nuts to undermine you are too many......

Why put an extra route in when they can have fun harrassing the hourlys?