Truth on orange the new green end is comin

Exec32

Well-Known Member
I believe that you have perfectly framed the entire matter. As Fred S pointed out a few years back Express as a service had become too expensive to operate. The idea as some have posted of merging Ground into Express and making it into an all employee work force thereby exposing X to a long and expensive battle to keep the Teamsters out of the picture is simply not going to happen. Nada. As you stated the focus now is to expand the role and capabilities of Ground's contractor work force through the ISP format.Will Express as we know it today go away? No, but it most certainly be a whole lot smaller than it currently is. Does this mark the beginning of a whole new era of ISP opportunity? No it does not. It means much higher capital requirements, regulatory requirements, training, delivery precision, employee demands for better pay and benefits all at a time of heavy downward pressure on settlements. What does this mean for the average Express jock? Little opportunity for advancement. Few new jobs created most part time and not much in the way of pay increases. What does it mean for the ISP contractor? Unlimited supply of suicide quality misery's Should we be envious of ISP contractors? Not in the least. The comfortable operating margins they have enjoyed in the past are just that.....in the past.
Good points, but if you want to be part of the industry of only 2 competitors the current model for X will lose. Think about the LONG TERM. How do you think X will be able to compete with UPS with the many variables that exists in the regulatory arena, protect its brand with a fragmented increasingly unpopular underpaid contractor pool, and maintain any resemblance of a fortune 500 company.
They already have all entities doing the exact same thing with the the exact same equipment, in the exact same uniform, only to increase Controll, track us on scanners, require us to do things that are not contractual, and be able to accomplish this for the long term and fool the investor and legal community?
By the way, UPS is union, I think X will continue to fight it, however I do not believe that it is such an impedement, UPS makes it work.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Good points, but if you want to be part of the industry of only 2 competitors the current model for X will lose. Think about the LONG TERM. How do you think X will be able to compete with UPS with the many variables that exists in the regulatory arena, protect its brand with a fragmented increasingly unpopular underpaid contractor pool, and maintain any resemblance of a fortune 500 company.
They already have all entities doing the exact same thing with the the exact same equipment, in the exact same uniform, only to increase Controll, track us on scanners, require us to do things that are not contractual, and be able to accomplish this for the long term and fool the investor and legal community?
By the way, UPS is union, I think X will continue to fight it, however I do not believe that it is such an impedement, UPS makes it work.
Question. You keep referring to 2 competitors. I count 3. UPS,Fedex and the good old United States Postal Service. Not to mention smaller ones such as DHL OTD and fast growing Amazon. Furthermore, what is the main gripe you hear out of people these day? The COST of shipping an item. The only thing they care about is getting an item in one piece to the right place at the right time and at the lowest shipping cost. That delivery guy is not at one place long enough for the consignee to form much of an opinion of that delivery person. Even if they are there at the time and that continues to be less often they're entire focus is on that box. Believe me I don't envy you as an IC/ISP given the :censored2: storm coming your way. If you are so enamored with Xpress and idolize it the way you do then sell your routes cut your losses get out of it and go to work for Xpress. Keep in mind that if G was to be folded into X they wouldn't owe you a dime for your contract or your trucks, meaning that all you would have is a bunch of worn out trucks which when sold might recover 10% of what you owe the banks at the time. They are one of the fastest depreciating pieces of equipment known to the U.S. economy. The best friend you have going for you at the present time is just that.....time. Time to position yourself in preparation for a whole lot of change coming your way. If you don't think that the returns on the massive capital requirements needed to fund the required upgrades are worth it. Go on Bizquest and put your routes on the market.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I believe X knows it's couriers falling under RLA will be subject to more and closer scrutiny. Fred is anticipating this and hedging his bet, he will wait to make any real substantial moves till the last minute

I don't know what they're up to, but be assured that the welfare of employees is their last concern. If there is a restructuring in addition to the rebranding they will use it as justification to not keep pace on pay.

Remember how well they handled the Kinko's deal?
 

Exec32

Well-Known Member
Question. You keep referring to 2 competitors. I count 3. UPS,Fedex and the good old United States Postal Service. Not to mention smaller ones such as DHL OTD and fast growing Amazon.
1) seriously, DHL..... USPS is not a competitor to ground, you know as well as I do they do not have fleet nor packages comparable to ground to any significant degree.
Amazon, they will service their dense areas in large metro areas only to create downward pressures on both UPS andX to give them a great bargain while making a little money in the mean time. So yes I do believe there are only 2 real competitors. That is important to accept if you are willing to hear me out.
Furthermore, what is the main gripe you hear out of people these day? The COST of shipping an item. The only thing they care about is getting an item in one piece to the right place at the right time and at the lowest shipping cost.
2) The main gripe? I can honestly say it's not price. Much of the market consist of free shipping, and because there are only 2 competitors that can be used for the MOST PART, price even if it does play a role it is not a deal breaker or focus of the customer. The main gripe is being able to locate the package, and expected delivery change, and request for changes by the recipient. These lend to my argument that technology and efficiencies with a combined closely monitored well supplied work force can solve.
That delivery guy is not at one place long enough for the consignee to form much of an opinion of that delivery person. Even if they are there at the time and that continues to be less often they're entire focus is on that box.
3) Agree, this could support either argument.
Believe me I don't envy you as an IC/ISP given the :censored2: storm coming your way. If you are so enamored with Xpress and idolize it the way you do then sell your routes cut your losses get out of it and go to work for Xpress.
4) trust me I am in no way enamored with express. I am just making an argument that supports what I believe X will do, backed up by logic and long term for casting.
I have been wise in my past endeavors, saved my money and invested wisely, so this is not the end of the world. I just believe that X makes the rules, will only protect preserve its self and therefore take the least restrictive path with the most overall benefit to them, and unfortunately I don't see how they can achieve all that with ISP or of course IC.
When I decide to sell, I hope to be able to in the mean time I will play the game.
Keep in mind that if G was to be folded into X they wouldn't owe you a dime for your contract or your trucks, meaning that all you would have is a bunch of worn out trucks which when sold might recover 10% of what you owe the banks at the time. They are one of the fastest depreciating pieces of equipment known to the U.S. economy.
5) Thanks I think I pointed that out on a previous post, we can agree on something s. By the way I don't owe a dime on any of my equipment. Truck's are over priced to begin with. I think this probably supports my argument.
The best friend you have going for you at the present time is just that.....time. Time to position yourself in preparation for a whole lot of change coming your way.
6) Way ahead of ya, already positioned. Why do you it easier for me to accept the realty before me.
If you don't think that the returns on the massive capital requirements needed to fund the required upgrades are worth it.
7) WWWWWAAAAYYYYYY, not worth it.

Go on Bizquest and put your routes on the market.
8) Will do, X just keeps dedicating the value by all the confusion.
 

Exec32

Well-Known Member
8) Sorry auto correct sucks....I will go on MYGROUNDBIZ to list my routes one day. Problem is X keeps depreciating the value by creating all the confusion.
 

Fragiledonthrow

Well-Known Member
No express is not going to become contractors. The IC model will come to an end. Here are the reasons.
We will all be Express!

1. New technology has created demands from customers that the IC MODEL can not provide like the competitors.
2. UPS is taken advantage of those technologies within there operations which are set up to adapt quickly
3 X OPERATIONS are to fragmented to keep up.
4 The IC MODEL has continued to lose its competitive advantage, based solely on cost savings. X is not able to adapt, losing customer confidence.
5 of course the lawsuits will soon out weight any advantage left.
6 Hillary will be president, legislation will pass, laws changed to address loop holes. Please this is not a political statement!!! This is an assessment that X has made.
7 X needs you to believe that it will take 7-10 years to complete, leaving you complacent for now. Another lie.
8 to many obstacles and impediments exist with the IC model, again reducing customer confidence.

The IC model will continue for now to pass on as many expenses to the contractor as possible. What X really values is the equity we have built and continue to do.
Before you disagree, ask yourself, can X compete with UPS on efficiencies while meeting more and more customer demands? They can not under the circumstances because we are to fragmented!
X has at least a 25 year forecast. They did not do this just because customers were confused. It is somewhat branding, partially true not the whole truth. When the last time they told the whole truth!
It makes sense. Never ending lawsuits, fewer options for customers, branding confusion, a fragmented delivery system, these have chipped away from fedex ability to compete. Cost savings alone have continued to decline. Changes on the horizon do not support increasing returns, under the same circumstances.
Welcome to express 2020
And dont forget.. It was an Express delivery driver on the last marvel movie which Stan Lee played. Not Ground. That should tell you something.. Lmao
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
8) Sorry auto correct sucks....I will go on MYGROUNDBIZ to list my routes one day. Problem is X keeps depreciating the value by creating all the confusion.
That's a good point when it comes to the future plans of every contractor. Going forward, chances are their routes are not going to be worth any more than what they are right now.
 

FedGT

Well-Known Member
The good ole days of getting any real value are GONE
Depends on the location you are at. I have seen multiple contracts in my terminal sell for around annual gross. I sold mine at estimated gross year end 2016+18% when you factor in debt transfer.
There are still many buyers out there but from what I have seen big prices only come from very small supply areas creating that big demand
 

Exec32

Well-Known Member
Depends on the location you are at. I have seen multiple contracts in my terminal sell for around annual gross. I sold mine at estimated gross year end 2016+18% when you factor in debt transfer.
There are still many buyers out there but from what I have seen big prices only come from very small supply areas creating that big demand
The first genius that offers me anything close to that,,,,,,out
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
And dont forget.. It was an Express delivery driver on the last marvel movie which Stan Lee played. Not Ground. That should tell you something.. Lmao
It would appear that you don't know that companies PAY to have their products displayed in movie productions. Said to be good bang for the buck.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
You know I do hope your right and I'm wrong. Well got to go I got 140 boxes going to one stop on on p1000 with 90 other stops to cover. What a life. That driver is Gona be thrilled

Split the routes up and hire another driver. More packages means more money for you.
 

FedGT

Well-Known Member
Speaking of more packages to same location here is how they are making their margins on smart post, they presented it a little differently.
 

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FedGT

Well-Known Member
Delivered probably 80 boxes that day got paid the same as 4 envelopes.

Did that 5 times this week that translates to what, close to 400 packages that we got paid for 20. They claim that they are working on fixing the OS issue........really??
 
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