*UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan Sou

UPSSOCKS

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

WOW!

Nothing like a quote from a person who truly called it like he saw it.

Except in this case I think the idiom "The pot calling the kettle black" would fit here quite nicely as that same quote can be applied to the way you, as a manager, act toward your coworkers and employees.

The difference is I don't pretend otherwise... I only care about myself... If you don't like it, quit. If you don't see it my way I will replace you.. The union pretends to care about its members when in reality it just wants their money...
 

cino321

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

He's not 22.3 he's a part timer. In Island City I think we have like like 3-4 PT air drivers in the entire building. I'm not sure whether they are scheduled to work this week or not.
 

iowa boy

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

That's the way the union works.. They only care about themselves and the select few in their "clique" the other members just donate to the cause..

The difference is I don't pretend otherwise... I only care about myself... If you don't like it, quit. If you don't see it my way I will replace you.. The union pretends to care about its members when in reality it just wants their money...





Thank you for clarifying my point Socks, you just made my day:peaceful:.
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
The difference is I don't pretend otherwise... I only care about myself... If you don't like it, quit. If you don't see it my way I will replace you.. The union pretends to care about its members when in reality it just wants their money...

You act like this is some sort of revelation. The union is a business, and like all businesses will act like it cares about its customers. We all know the money driven reality of it all, just that some choose to see it for what it is and some don't.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
 

EyesLookingIn

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

Yes it's no secret that UPS's plan is to get rid of all part time air drivers. I talked to Anthony a BA from Local 804 at our last General Membership Meeting , he said that the reason is for the company to save over-allowed hours every p/t air dr is 2 to 4 hours over every day. Plus UPS lost a Arbitration in California that allowed the full time drivers to do Early AM's. , also that most drivers in Manhattan were getting done with there NDA by 10 O'Clock.

NOW WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN ..... is that every driver in Manhattan that see's UPS management working , dropping off work , picking up work , working in the buildings , anything MUST TELL THERE STEWARDS and grievances have to be put in. To get the lay-off people paid.

Something else that Anthony said that I agree with is that no 22.3 should do Early AM NDA , they should stay on the preload and have all full time drivers come in early to deliver those packages , this way since the drivers are starting early it would force UPS to make more loads on the centers.

ITS TIME FOR THE STEWARDS IN 43rd ST TO STOP LOOKING THE OTHER WAY , STOP MAKING DEALS BECAUSE YOU START AT 7:30 AND DO NOTHING TILL 9 , START WRITING GREIVANCES.............
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

Yes it's no secret that UPS's plan is to get rid of all part time air drivers. I talked to Anthony a BA from Local 804 at our last General Membership Meeting , he said that the reason is for the company to save over-allowed hours every p/t air dr is 2 to 4 hours over every day. Plus UPS lost a Arbitration in California that allowed the full time drivers to do Early AM's. , also that most drivers in Manhattan were getting done with there NDA by 10 O'Clock.
Thank you for your post.

Please help me understand this arbitration UPS lost "that allowed the full time drivers to do Early AM's." It has been my understanding that any work that an air driver may do can also be given to a FT if the company so chooses. Its only the opposite that is not permitted...right?

Your post leads right to a question I presented in another thread, but nobody chose to answer it. I'm sure the right person (perhaps you) just didn't notice it, so I will present it again.

I would like to get a contract issue clarified. Some of the posts on this thread have raised questions in my mind. Being an air driver, these issues concern me for good reason.

Here is the relevant Article 40 language for everyone's consideration:

(a) Air driver work shall consist of delivery and pickup of air packages which, because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers. Such work may include:
(1) Delivery of air packages which the regular delivery drivers cannot deliver within guaranteed time commitments.
(2) Delivery of air packages arriving at the facility after regular drivers have been dispatched.
(3) Delivery and pick up of air packages on weekends and holidays.
(4) On Call Air pickups.
(5) Pick up at air counters and drop boxes.
(6) Additional late air pickups.
(7) Air drivers may, on an exception basis, be used to make service on packages which are not air packages.
(8) Delivery of early AM Packages.
(9) Movement of air packages to airports and other locations such as service centers, UPS buildings and driver meet points.

Two questions I guess:

First of all, does the the language imply that the work described in items (1) through (9), since it falls under the wording of letter (a) mean that all those nine tasks listed should preferably go to a full timer?


Second, if the answer to the above is "yes," what is the threshold of reasonable? Other than running off excess NDAs, which in many, but not all, centers truly could not be done by FT's before the advertised commit time, all the other stuff, as I see it, (even Sat deliveries) could be done by FT's if the comapny paid certain drivers OT. Such an interpreatation of the language hardly leaves any work for air drivers!

Of course, this is not an interpretation I am advocating. I like my air driver job. I just want to know how senior management and union officials understand this language.
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

That's the way the union works.. They only care about themselves and the select few in their "clique" the other members just donate to the cause..
You know, I didn't envision my role on BC to be "Defender of the Universe." Having said that, I also want to go on record and say I have not found that to be the general case by any means. We have had some real scoundrels who ran our local for too many years, but in more recent times, that whole crew was swept out in an election and I am very encouraged by who we have in leadership now. In particular, I have known one of the elected officials since he was a driver and steward in the hub I work out of, and I preloaded for one of the BA's in days past. They have a lot on their plate. I am quite certain their lives would be simpler if they had remained drivers, and I feel they truly have the members' best interests at heart.
 

UPSSOCKS

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

You know, I didn't envision my role on BC to be "Defender of the Universe." Having said that, I also want to go on record and say I have not found that to be the general case by any means. We have had some real scoundrels who ran our local for too many years, but in more recent times, that whole crew was swept out in an election and I am very encouraged by who we have in leadership now. In particular, I have known one of the elected officials since he was a driver and steward in the hub I work out of, and I preloaded for one of the BA's in days past. They have a lot on their plate. I am quite certain their lives would be simpler if they had remained drivers, and I feel they truly have the members' best interests at heart.

In 804?? You think it got better?? 804 is worse now than it was before.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

There are a lot of variables involved.

without getting into it, for example, If it's an air only operation, then art 40 employees are forced to work.
 

helenofcalifornia

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

We finally got a BA who is an retired UPS driver. That was a deep sigh of "finally, we got someone in who knows what the job is and knows how UPS works."
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

scratch, do you still deliver eam packages or is that gone from your daily activities??
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

scratch, do you still deliver eam packages or is that gone from your daily activities??

I gave the EAMs up a couple of years ago. It was easy money, but I hated the 6:30 AM start time. I could never make myself go to bed early enough to get enough sleep. They kept my regular route down a little so I got exactly 9.5 though, it was nice to clock out at 5PM everyday.
 

bigbrownhen

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

That would be nice to be home that early. It would be almost a normal life.....whatever that is.
 

EyesLookingIn

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

Thank you for your post.

Please help me understand this arbitration UPS lost "that allowed the full time drivers to do Early AM's." It has been my understanding that any work that an air driver may do can also be given to a FT if the company so chooses. Its only the opposite that is not permitted...right?

Your post leads right to a question I presented in another thread, but nobody chose to answer it. I'm sure the right person (perhaps you) just didn't notice it, so I will present it again.

I would like to get a contract issue clarified. Some of the posts on this thread have raised questions in my mind. Being an air driver, these issues concern me for good reason.

Here is the relevant Article 40 language for everyone's consideration:

(a) Air driver work shall consist of delivery and pickup of air packages which, because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers. Such work may include:
(1) Delivery of air packages which the regular delivery drivers cannot deliver within guaranteed time commitments.
(2) Delivery of air packages arriving at the facility after regular drivers have been dispatched.
(3) Delivery and pick up of air packages on weekends and holidays.
(4) On Call Air pickups.
(5) Pick up at air counters and drop boxes.
(6) Additional late air pickups.
(7) Air drivers may, on an exception basis, be used to make service on packages which are not air packages.
(8) Delivery of early AM Packages.
(9) Movement of air packages to airports and other locations such as service centers, UPS buildings and driver meet points.

Two questions I guess:

First of all, does the the language imply that the work described in items (1) through (9), since it falls under the wording of letter (a) mean that all those nine tasks listed should preferably go to a full timer?


Second, if the answer to the above is "yes," what is the threshold of reasonable? Other than running off excess NDAs, which in many, but not all, centers truly could not be done by FT's before the advertised commit time, all the other stuff, as I see it, (even Sat deliveries) could be done by FT's if the comapny paid certain drivers OT. Such an interpreatation of the language hardly leaves any work for air drivers!

Of course, this is not an interpretation I am advocating. I like my air driver job. I just want to know how senior management and union officials understand this language.

Great questions , I'm not an expert but any delivery work is full time drivers work first , I'll try to explain what the language means ( i hope ) 15 years ago UPS stopped drivers from del Eam because drivers were dispatched at around 8-8:15 am , so since the routes were ready to go out at that time , if drivers went to del Eam there routes would sit there for almost an hour until they got back , delaying the routes from going out , and we were told by 804 at the time we lost that fight. (total BS , I felt that there was nothing wrong with the routes sitting waiting for the drivers to come back maybe then all the packages would be loaded correctly ) but now drivers are leaving the buildings like 9am plenty of time for drivers to del Eam's and be back by 9am. So when you read this because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers. yes all 9 tasks should go to the drivers but some of it can't be reasonably performed , thats why it also says Such work MAY include.. To answer your second Q ,, you are right the drivers could do most of that work but that would mean putting on a lot of more full timers and paying the drivers a lot more overtime plus Saturday may not be 8 hours work but drivers guarantee is 8 hours. Where the fight always comes into play is that to the union reasonably performed means having the time to do it and still do ones route. to UPS reasonably performed means how much will it cost to get it done. I feel that Local 804 didn't care about what was going on because all the drivers were getting over 8 hours , so the idea of putting on 300 - 500 p/t air drivers in metro NY 15 years ago meant more union dues coming into the union so why fight for 100 new driver jobs. I do think it was good to get those p/t jobs at the time but now UPS is only looking at being productive on paper not the cost.

So now all the p/t air drivers that went out of there way to make sure the airs got delivered on-time for years and years and helped build this company are being told by UPS friend-U we don't need you any more, good old UPS....TIME FOR EVER COSTUMER TO GET THERE MONEY BACK ON A LATE AIR.

hope this helped......
 

siredline09

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

Great questions , I'm not an expert but any delivery work is full time drivers work first , I'll try to explain what the language means ( i hope ) 15 years ago UPS stopped drivers from del Eam because drivers were dispatched at around 8-8:15 am , so since the routes were ready to go out at that time , if drivers went to del Eam there routes would sit there for almost an hour until they got back , delaying the routes from going out , and we were told by 804 at the time we lost that fight. (total BS , I felt that there was nothing wrong with the routes sitting waiting for the drivers to come back maybe then all the packages would be loaded correctly ) but now drivers are leaving the buildings like 9am plenty of time for drivers to del Eam's and be back by 9am. So when you read this because of time and customer commitments, cannot be reasonably performed by regular package drivers. yes all 9 tasks should go to the drivers but some of it can't be reasonably performed , thats why it also says Such work MAY include.. To answer your second Q ,, you are right the drivers could do most of that work but that would mean putting on a lot of more full timers and paying the drivers a lot more overtime plus Saturday may not be 8 hours work but drivers guarantee is 8 hours. Where the fight always comes into play is that to the union reasonably performed means having the time to do it and still do ones route. to UPS reasonably performed means how much will it cost to get it done. I feel that Local 804 didn't care about what was going on because all the drivers were getting over 8 hours , so the idea of putting on 300 - 500 p/t air drivers in metro NY 15 years ago meant more union dues coming into the union so why fight for 100 new driver jobs. I do think it was good to get those p/t jobs at the time but now UPS is only looking at being productive on paper not the cost.

So now all the p/t air drivers that went out of there way to make sure the airs got delivered on-time for years and years and helped build this company are being told by UPS friend-U we don't need you any more, good old UPS....TIME FOR EVER COSTUMER TO GET THERE MONEY BACK ON A LATE AIR.

hope this helped......

wow did not know that
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
Re: *UPDATE UPS LAYS OFF ALL AIR DRIVERS IN MANHATTAN 43RD St building and Manhattan

Thank you for the reply to my questions, EyesLookingIn.

Siredline010, welcome back, I'm grateful you are still with us and didn't get totally turned off by some of the rude jokes and comments that were directed at you. What's going on with you anyway? Are you or will you soon be back driving? Or are you working in the hub? Or did you take a layoff?

I'm curious about the remark "but now UPS is only looking at being productive on paper not the cost." This may be related to something from a yet still earlier post...
I talked to Anthony a BA from Local 804 at our last General Membership Meeting , he said that the reason is for the company to save over-allowed hours every p/t air dr is 2 to 4 hours over every day.
What do you mean by p/t air drivers being "2 to 4 hours over every day." Are you saying air drivers in your hub are working 6-8 hours a day? (I'm only getting around 3, and that is close to what most other air drivers are getting in my building as well.) Now, anyway, if p/t air drivers are getting 6-8 hours, why does the company see that as a problem? OT doesn't kick in until after 8 hours.

Also, perhaps the bigger question I don't understand is the "productivity on paper versus the cost." Why?... I don't know if this is also related, but up until recently, the powers that be in my center were adamant that I pick up a any particular drop box, even if it is in an unmanned, outdoor location, within 15 minutes of a certain agreed upon time. My thinking was who cares when its picked up...so long as I am back in the building on time, have enough work for my route etc. The time I p/u each drop box was used to calculate my "pick up compliance" or something. Now they say they only care about when I service the businesses I go to, which make a whole lot more sense to me.
 
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