UPS Bargaining Philosophy from UPS Policy manual

Over disciplined0123

Well-Known Member
upload_2018-10-6_12-14-21.jpeg
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
Everybody is trying to place the blame for this imposed contract on everything and everyone, except where the real blame belongs.

This clause in the IBT Constitution was pointed out here long before the vote was over, and has been in the IBT Constitution for 25 years and no one has ever attempted to remove it. I believe @Bubblehead was the first to point it out here. Just like last contract, people complained that they were not told that Teamcare required a weekly punch.

You would think that we would do our due diligence and research on a 5 year contract before we voted.

We are the only ones to blame. Could not even get half the people to vote. If we did, they would be back at the table right now. UPS Freight did, UPS Airline mechanics did. Why couldn't we?

And here you are trying to blame UPS. While I know they are ruthless at times, and I but heads with them on a daily basis, let's look where you placed blame.

Facilitating open and honest communications with our employees, customers and stakeholders

They did. In most places people even complained that UPS nagged them all the time to vote. Legally, they are not allowed to discuss the contract with you. Is this what you wanted? For UPS to tell you that Hoffa will impose the contract if you do not vote. They told you to vote.

Considering all good-faith proposals brought to the table during negotiations

They did. They negotiated since last November, and agreed with the IBT on this latest good-faith proposal. Do you not forget that the IBT negotiated this, has called it the best contract ever, and recommended a yes vote?

recognize the contributions of our employees

You do again realize that the lower paid 22.4 driver was proposed, and agreed to, by the IBT as well? While I believe we could have done much better, we did get a raise, for FT and PT, pension and H&W improvements and new jobs committed to.

competition and fairly reward the hard work, teamwork and determination of our employees

Again, I think we could have, and maybe should have, gotten better. But even with the lower paid 22.4 drivers, we are still the highest paid in the industry. Ask a FedEx driver, or DHL, or Holland, or ABF, or Amazon driver what they make.

Do you really want to make a change?

Elect someone in the next IBT election that will fix this * in the contract in 2023. But yes, we are stuck with this for 5 years because we could not even get half our people to make a phone call or log into a webpage.

Shame on us.
 

Over disciplined0123

Well-Known Member
Everybody is trying to place the blame for this imposed contract on everything and everyone, except where the real blame belongs.

This clause in the IBT Constitution was pointed out here long before the vote was over, and has been in the IBT Constitution for 25 years and no one has ever attempted to remove it. I believe @Bubblehead was the first to point it out here. Just like last contract, people complained that they were not told that Teamcare required a weekly punch.

You would think that we would do our due diligence and research on a 5 year contract before we voted.

We are the only ones to blame. Could not even get half the people to vote. If we did, they would be back at the table right now. UPS Freight did, UPS Airline mechanics did. Why couldn't we?

And here you are trying to blame UPS. While I know they are ruthless at times, and I but heads with them on a daily basis, let's look where you placed blame.

Facilitating open and honest communications with our employees, customers and stakeholders

They did. In most places people even complained that UPS nagged them all the time to vote. Legally, they are not allowed to discuss the contract with you. Is this what you wanted? For UPS to tell you that Hoffa will impose the contract if you do not vote. They told you to vote.

Considering all good-faith proposals brought to the table during negotiations

They did. They negotiated since last November, and agreed with the IBT on this latest good-faith proposal. Do you not forget that the IBT negotiated this, has called it the best contract ever, and recommended a yes vote?

recognize the contributions of our employees

You do again realize that the lower paid 22.4 driver was proposed, and agreed to, by the IBT as well? While I believe we could have done much better, we did get a raise, for FT and PT, pension and H&W improvements and new jobs committed to.

competition and fairly reward the hard work, teamwork and determination of our employees

Again, I think we could have, and maybe should have, gotten better. But even with the lower paid 22.4 drivers, we are still the highest paid in the industry. Ask a FedEx driver, or DHL, or Holland, or ABF, or Amazon driver what they make.

Do you really want to make a change?

Elect someone in the next IBT election that will fix this * in the contract in 2023. But yes, we are stuck with this for 5 years because we could not even get half our people to make a phone call or log into a webpage.

Shame on us.
Ok so why in past contracts like in 1997 it was not invoked I bet they had same percentage of votes .....This has never been done in history with large company like this This will be historical and the end of Labor Unions across the country slot of other labor unions follow this contract while the negotiate their own. This is one of the largest if not largest labor contract in the world
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Ok so why in past contracts like in 1997 it was not invoked I bet they had same percentage of votes .....This has never been done in history with large company like this This will be historical and the end of Labor Unions across the country slot of other labor unions follow this contract while the negotiate their own. This is one of the largest if not largest labor contract in the world
In 1997 Ron Carey refused to bring the Company's "last, best, and final offer" to the membership for a vote, electing instead to call for a strike.

He wasn't in bed with the Company.
 

Tony Q

Well-Known Member
Everybody is trying to place the blame for this imposed contract on everything and everyone, except where the real blame belongs.

This clause in the IBT Constitution was pointed out here long before the vote was over, and has been in the IBT Constitution for 25 years and no one has ever attempted to remove it. I believe @Bubblehead was the first to point it out here. Just like last contract, people complained that they were not told that Teamcare required a weekly punch.

You would think that we would do our due diligence and research on a 5 year contract before we voted.

We are the only ones to blame. Could not even get half the people to vote. If we did, they would be back at the table right now. UPS Freight did, UPS Airline mechanics did. Why couldn't we?

And here you are trying to blame UPS. While I know they are ruthless at times, and I but heads with them on a daily basis, let's look where you placed blame.

Facilitating open and honest communications with our employees, customers and stakeholders

They did. In most places people even complained that UPS nagged them all the time to vote. Legally, they are not allowed to discuss the contract with you. Is this what you wanted? For UPS to tell you that Hoffa will impose the contract if you do not vote. They told you to vote.

Considering all good-faith proposals brought to the table during negotiations

They did. They negotiated since last November, and agreed with the IBT on this latest good-faith proposal. Do you not forget that the IBT negotiated this, has called it the best contract ever, and recommended a yes vote?

recognize the contributions of our employees

You do again realize that the lower paid 22.4 driver was proposed, and agreed to, by the IBT as well? While I believe we could have done much better, we did get a raise, for FT and PT, pension and H&W improvements and new jobs committed to.

competition and fairly reward the hard work, teamwork and determination of our employees

Again, I think we could have, and maybe should have, gotten better. But even with the lower paid 22.4 drivers, we are still the highest paid in the industry. Ask a FedEx driver, or DHL, or Holland, or ABF, or Amazon driver what they make.

Do you really want to make a change?

Elect someone in the next IBT election that will fix this * in the contract in 2023. But yes, we are stuck with this for 5 years because we could not even get half our people to make a phone call or log into a webpage.

Shame on us.
Wise words from an obvious sage.
 

Tony Q

Well-Known Member
Ron Carey set this in motion a long time ago. Love him or hate him it’s the Teamster constitution. Ron was all about voting. I know this first had because I know him very well. He had it right that members needed to vote. He also had it right that part time America didn’t work. He screwed up the pensions, but in the end if people listened to him and voted, you aren’t where you are right now. Freight members don’t have these problems because they vote.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Everybody is trying to place the blame for this imposed contract on everything and everyone, except where the real blame belongs.

This clause in the IBT Constitution was pointed out here long before the vote was over, and has been in the IBT Constitution for 25 years and no one has ever attempted to remove it. I believe @Bubblehead was the first to point it out here. Just like last contract, people complained that they were not told that Teamcare required a weekly punch.

You would think that we would do our due diligence and research on a 5 year contract before we voted.

We are the only ones to blame. Could not even get half the people to vote. If we did, they would be back at the table right now. UPS Freight did, UPS Airline mechanics did. Why couldn't we?

And here you are trying to blame UPS. While I know they are ruthless at times, and I but heads with them on a daily basis, let's look where you placed blame.

Facilitating open and honest communications with our employees, customers and stakeholders

They did. In most places people even complained that UPS nagged them all the time to vote. Legally, they are not allowed to discuss the contract with you. Is this what you wanted? For UPS to tell you that Hoffa will impose the contract if you do not vote. They told you to vote.

Considering all good-faith proposals brought to the table during negotiations

They did. They negotiated since last November, and agreed with the IBT on this latest good-faith proposal. Do you not forget that the IBT negotiated this, has called it the best contract ever, and recommended a yes vote?

recognize the contributions of our employees

You do again realize that the lower paid 22.4 driver was proposed, and agreed to, by the IBT as well? While I believe we could have done much better, we did get a raise, for FT and PT, pension and H&W improvements and new jobs committed to.

competition and fairly reward the hard work, teamwork and determination of our employees

Again, I think we could have, and maybe should have, gotten better. But even with the lower paid 22.4 drivers, we are still the highest paid in the industry. Ask a FedEx driver, or DHL, or Holland, or ABF, or Amazon driver what they make.

Do you really want to make a change?

Elect someone in the next IBT election that will fix this * in the contract in 2023. But yes, we are stuck with this for 5 years because we could not even get half our people to make a phone call or log into a webpage.

Shame on us.
Why do we have to wait until 2023???

Isn't the same language in Art 12, section 6 of the IBT Constitution available to the General Executive Board as it was in 2014 when they imposed 3 area supplements???

~Section 6. The General Executive Board is empowered to amend, delete, or add to this Article if at any time it believes such action will be in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies.~

Seeing that more than half of the membership at UPS are part time employees that have continually demonstrated an unwillingness to vote, seems to me this action would be "in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies".
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Ron Carey set this in motion a long time ago. Love him or hate him it’s the Teamster constitution. Ron was all about voting. I know this first had because I know him very well. He had it right that members needed to vote. He also had it right that part time America didn’t work. He screwed up the pensions, but in the end if people listened to him and voted, you aren’t where you are right now. Freight members don’t have these problems because they vote.
Freight doesn't have more than half their members as short term, high turnover, part time employee either.

....and Ron Carey has been out of the game for over 20 years, while Hoffa has not righted the ship.

How about giving us an apples to apples scenario and distributing the credit where it belongs?
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
In 1997 Ron Carey refused to bring the Company's "last, best, and final offer" to the membership for a vote, electing instead to call for a strike.

He wasn't in bed with the Company.

You beat me to it. The 1997 contract was not voted on until after the strike, and it was passed by a majority.

Why do we have to wait until 2023???

Isn't the same language in Art 12, section 6 of the IBT Constitution available to the General Executive Board as it was in 2014 when they imposed 3 area supplements???

We don't have to wait and you are correct, but I do not see much happening.

Hoffa can still fine tune this contract, change a few things here and there if UPS is willing, before it is implemented.

Why do we have to wait until 2023???

Seeing that more than half of the membership at UPS are part time employees that have continually demonstrated an unwillingness to vote, seems to me this action would be "in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies".

Why would it be in the interests of the International just because over half of us don't care....I mean don't vote.
 

Over disciplined0123

Well-Known Member
Wise words from an obvious sage.
I know for a fact Fed ex drivers make more then us I live next door to one . The actual real fed ex drivers that have to own 5 or more routes to be a subcontractor and then they hire a guy and while he is on golf course he pay him 15 bucks a hour to use his truck and deliver his route .Minus the gas and insurance he is making 6 figures easily ..and he also has no trouble putting his socks on in the morning because his knees don’t bend anymore ... Didnyou read where UPS strives to compete with completion salary. Amazon part time start rate 15 a hour.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
I know for a fact Fed ex drivers make more then us I live next door to one .

Like @Bubblehead says, "let's compare apples to apples."

You just proved my point. You said that the person "driving" that truck makes $15/hr.

The person who owns the truck is not a delivery driver, he is a small business owner. Big difference.

The more routes they own, the more they can make.
 

Over disciplined0123

Well-Known Member
And no one is blaming UPS for anything all we want is for UPS to be fair to thier hard working employees who are the ones that make them The most profitable and proficient in the industry from the sacrifices of its workers .. ( like working till 830pm everyday and sacrificing time away from families) day in day out not just during peak
 

Over disciplined0123

Well-Known Member
Like @Bubblehead says, "let's compare apples to apples."

You just proved my point. You said that the person "driving" that truck makes $15/hr.

The person who owns the truck is not a delivery driver, he is a small business owner. Big difference.

The more routes they own, the more they can make.
And he is on the golf course making 30 dollars and still paying him 15. He is making 45 a hour. More then us
 

PT Car Washer

Well-Known Member
Why do we have to wait until 2023???

Isn't the same language in Art 12, section 6 of the IBT Constitution available to the General Executive Board as it was in 2014 when they imposed 3 area supplements???

~Section 6. The General Executive Board is empowered to amend, delete, or add to this Article if at any time it believes such action will be in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies.~

Seeing that more than half of the membership at UPS are part time employees that have continually demonstrated an unwillingness to vote, seems to me this action would be "in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies".
I am sure a lot of PT would agree with eliminating all PT jobs and converting them to Art 22.3 at $30/hr. Was this ever a contract proposal?
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
And no one is blaming UPS for anything all we want is for UPS to be fair to thier hard working employees who are the ones that make them The most profitable and proficient in the industry from the sacrifices of its workers .. ( like working till 830pm everyday and sacrificing time away from families) day in day out not just during peak

I have no problem with what you said, and I agree.

So what is it that you personally wanted, or think that would be fair for UPS to give you?

I don't like the lower paid 22.4 driver, but the IBT gave this gift to UPS. You don't think they would jump all over it or do you think that they feel that they should do the right thing and pay them more?

Our Union, who we elected to bargain on our behalf, agreed to this. And we could not get half our people to vote to overrule the Union.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
That is a good point, and to fix that, the IBT Constitution is going to need to be amended.

Good luck with that.

Or we could put an end to the high-turnover, disposable workforce.

The constitution is fine. It's designing half the workforce to effectively be temps that's the problem.
 

upsbeernut

Sometimes i feel like a nut sometimes i dont
I have no problem with what you said, and I agree.

So what is it that you personally wanted, or think that would be fair for UPS to give you?

I don't like the lower paid 22.4 driver, but the IBT gave this gift to UPS. You don't think they would jump all over it or do you think that they feel that they should do the right thing and pay them more?

Our Union, who we elected to bargain on our behalf, agreed to this. And we could not get half our people to vote to overrule the Union.
Someone is getting kick backs
money-animated-gif-1.gif
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
And he is on the golf course making 30 dollars and still paying him 15. He is making 45 a hour. More then us

He is not a driver. He is a small business owner.

That is like comparing the CEO of a trucking firm to a UPS driver.

He owns the business, owns the trucks and pays someone to drive them.

You cannot compare this person to a UPS driver, but you can compare him to Abney, the guy who, let's say, owns the business.
 
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