Warning Letters...

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Jack4343, Apr 1, 2007.

  1. Jack4343

    Jack4343 FT DR Specialist

    How many certified warning letters have you received in the mail? I had never received one until the past six months when I have gotten 2 of them. One was for a C.O.D. discrepancy that I had already rectified and the other one was for a Class 2 Exception violation. (We are supposed to scan all clerk packages with a scan gun when we come in in the PM before giving them to the clerk) I pulled the packages off the car before leaving the building in the AM and didn't scan them. (It was a futured bulk stop) I have never gotten one for a service related failure. (missed, etc.)

    Anyone know how many you can get before they can you? It's kind of messed up that they send it certified to your home. It's psycological warfare if you ask me. By sending it to your home, UPS is involving your family in their discipline of you. They do it to worry your family that you will lose your job so the pressures increase on you from home. If you ask me, talking to you in a meeting with a union steward is enough.
  2. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    I hadn't gotton one in a while, I didn't know they come by Certified mail. Since I am not home when the Post Office comes, it would just go back. They used to send them in a small envelope through us. A long time ago, the Center Manager would hand them to Drivers in the morning, but they were torn up and thrown in the garbage.
  3. Harry Manback

    Harry Manback Robot Extraordinaire

    I may be wrong, but i wanna say it's 3 before termination/vacation. But they are nullifyed within 9 months. So they go away. At least that's what I've always heard. Maybe one of Channon could clear that up for you.
  4. helenofcalifornia

    helenofcalifornia Well-Known Member

    I have always refused my warning letters, or not picked them up at the post office where upon they are then returned to UPS.
  5. submarine

    submarine Banned

    Warning letters simply document the incident and are valid for nine months from the date of discipline. (I don't believe this language is differen't in any other agreement but check yours). They 'drop off' and a new one must be issued for a recurring offense.
    While the Warning Letter will specify that you can be terminated for any future infractions, that is rarely the case. Usually progressive discipline is followed and this has been upheld by the courts as being ingrained.
    In my local we actually have a signed company agreement that specifies progressive discipline for all infractions regarding attendance as documented talk with, WL, 1day suspension, 3 day susp, 5 day susp, and then Termination. For part-timers they add two extra "documented talk withs" in order to 'fix the problem' and reduce turnover. This has been very successful and I used the model to reduce warning letters to package drivers.
    We came up with a form, called an "EQUIP" Form, that would serve as a 'documented talk with' when addressing service failures with package drivers. This reduces what I call "training by discipline". Management, the employee, and the steward sit down and discuss the what caused the service failure, what methods weren't followed, and then ask the employee to suggest ways to address the problem with the entire center. This completely changes the tone of the meeting. It can be difficult to get your management team to sign on to the program, but it works.
    Management likes it because it gives them a form to show that they have spoken with and re-trained the employee with a steward present. This form can later be shown when further discipline is warranted.
    The Steward likes it because 1. it isn't really discipline and adds one step to the progressive discipline process and 2. it allows the steward to get the employee to 'shape up' and hopefully avoid further discipline. Also, it engages the employee in the process, allows the steward and employee to challenge procedures that may be leading to service failures, and sometimes discovers personal problems such as family issues that may be contributing to the employees work-related problems.
    Sometimes I would even get to avoid the next step of a warning letter by getting management to allow me to have a 'heart to heart' talk with the employee after an EQUIP form had already been filled out.

    Back to your original question, when Warning Letters are sent certified mail (as is required by the contract) it doesn't matter if you receive it or not, simply that they send it. I told all my drivers to accept it and give me a copy, as the other one goes to the Union Hall and can be difficult for me to retrieve. I would check the letter for any errors as far as date, offense, and people present as many times they do contain errors. Some lacky in H.R. writes and signs these, your actual management doesn't even see them. Any errors will make the warning letter invalid which can aid avoiding future discipline.

    90% of warning letters meetings I sat in on were due to methods failures or attendance. Two easy things to fix. I never understand why someone with a $70,000+ a year job can't show up for work!
  6. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    Has that made a difference? Usually those letters are kept in the employee file for future reference, if needed.
  7. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    Has that made a difference? Usually those letters are kept in the employee file for future reference, if needed.
    A copy of the letter also goes to your Local BA, Labor and Division Manager.

    UPSBOT When UPS Was Fun

    They hand them to us right after the PCM. The Union Steward is present.:)
  9. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Never heard of them being sent via certified mail. Usually someone from the management team just hands it to you in a yellow envelope here. It's not that big of a deal, so this tactic is psycological warfare. I've never even heard of warning letters for the two things you listed (especially the 2nd thing listed). I would get your local BA's involved in this, this doesn't sound like progressive discipline unless there's more to the story.
  10. submarine

    submarine Banned

    Your experiences may vary due to contract language differences. It is specified in the Western regional agreement that WL's must be sent by certified mail.
  11. Jack4343

    Jack4343 FT DR Specialist

    I'm in the Southeastern U.S. so I guess I'm in the southern district. The first one was due to a C.O.D. that I under collected by $100. I was notified the next day after and promptly collected the correct amount. I was told that a warning letter was standard procedure for that. However, I have seen other drivers have COD errors and did not have a warning letter sent to their house. The language in the letter is that one is quite different than the other one. It basically states that you (the driver) is responsible for payment of any errors that you make on CODs. I know that the union would not let that happen and have been told that by my union steward. However I have seen a drivers check garnished by UPS for a COD error. (He collected a personal check instead of a money order/certified funds and the check bounced)

    Anyway, the second one is a new procedure they are doing. All class 2 exception packages (Moved, No Such, etc.) must be pulled off and scanned by a scanner before being handed to a clerk. They warned us that day that warning letters would be sent out if you failed to do so. As I said previously, I pulled the packages off in the AM and didn't scan them. I did plead my case that there was no progressive discipline (Documented talk with, etc.) and that this was my first offense. I was told that this is the way it will be done for now on. Of course, I can see this going the way of the other things that management gets hot with temporarily and then ignores only to move on to the next hot topic. It's just that I got hit with it when they are really stressing the class 2 exceptions. I'm not really worried about my job or anything. I'm not the first (5 others got warning letters for the same thing that day) and I won't be the last. Heck, the next day I got recognized at the PCM by my center manager for helping out each day and they gave me some UPS 100 gear. I joked that it's ironic that I get a warning letter one day and get recognized for being a good driver the next. Just another day in paradise at UPS, huh?
  12. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I think you're worrying too much about the warning letter. Frame it, and hang it next to the dartboard with your CMs picture on it.

    PLEASE remember to mention the warning letter next time they beg you for a sales lead. Say you are much too busy trying to avoid another warning letter to be handing in sales leads.

    Say it with a smile.
  13. rocket88

    rocket88 Member

    Accept the letter and immediately rebut it it and send it back to the company within 5 working days. Make sure you send a copy of the rebuttle letter to the union. If the company sends you another letter rebutting yours, then rebut the 2nd letter as well.
    Your rebuttle doesn't need to be fancy or threatening. Just state that you disagree with the contents of the letter, or that it is factually inaccurate or what have you.
    Keep copies of everything though.
  14. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Glad to hear they also recognized your good work. Warning letters without talk withs are given when a problem gets out of hand and management feels they need to reign it in. Your boss is probably having to explain too many missed exceptions on the daily conference call and has had enough. Unfortunately a few good drivers always get caught when the ties starting pulling the trigger.
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    And don't forget those packages you didn't get with a sales lead are still being shipped through fdx:thumbup1:
  16. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    "And don't forget those packages you didn't get with a sales lead are still being shipped through fdx"

    I agree with you far more than you think. Sarcastic as I am, I still think bringing in volume is the only way to save the company. I get very upset when the company hands out warning letters, because for each one they give, there is a driver who will no longer participate in the sales lead program. I REALLY like to see it handled some, ANY other way.

    I think the management teams should carefully consider ALL their actions as to how it will affect SLIM participation.

    I realize there is sometimes no choice, but maybe there is if the person you're about to give a warning letter to is someone who hands in leads.

    What's more important? A warning letter, or a sales lead?

    Something to consider...
  17. local804

    local804 Well-Known Member

    How about pick 2 of 3
    1.Warning letter
    2.Sales lead
    3.Center morale
  18. BoogaBooga

    BoogaBooga Member

    I am not a salesman. It is tough for me to get sales leads, when I am forced to every springtime. If the situation presents itself, I will gladly fill out a lead, and turn it in. But to turn one in by the deadline in our depressed area is tough indeed.
  19. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Since when can they force you to turn in leads?
  20. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    "Since when can they force you to turn in leads?"

    Ditto that. What happens if you don't?