Weak and Pathetic Teamsters

[Brown287]

There is no "fulling" one who is already "full" of it. See above post for why once again you are wrong and I am right.

Actually Bbscam this statement is not at all pointed at you directly, but the scheme that you are a part of. You see Bbscam my world does not revolve around you, so not every post I submit is with you solely in mind. I'm aware that you merely play in a game that you didn't make the rules in, and thus you profit due to our governments lack of judgment. Anyhow I hope that through all the smoke and mirrors even you can see the absurdity that is the so called separation of Ground and Express.

 

[bbsam]

Actually Bbscam this statement is not at all pointed at you directly, but the scheme that you are a part of. You see Bbscam my world does not revolve around you, so not every post I submit is with you solely in mind. I'm aware that you merely play in a game that you didn't make the rules in, and thus you profit due to our governments lack of judgment. Anyhow I hope that through all the smoke and mirrors even you can see the absurdity that is the so called separation of Ground and Express.

Actually, I think the government sees it differenly. I think they view it as sound judgement. Like it or not, we all play by the governments rules. We simply play by different sets of rules. If the Government didn't like it or didn't somehow benefit from it, one of those sets of rules would be gone.

 

[Brown287]

Actually, I think the government sees it differenly. I think they view it as sound judgement. Like it or not, we all play by the governments rules. We simply play by different sets of rules. If the Government didn't like it or didn't somehow benefit from it, one of those sets of rules would be gone.

I ask then rather or not you could make a profit if FedEx does ever force you to recognize your drivers as real employees. If you had to pay a competitive wage with benefits based on an hourly rate could you make profit. Or are the parameters that FedEx currently set forth for you make that impossible? I'm just curious cause Ive had discussions with both the drivers and contractor in my area and they seem to proclaim that FedEx currently does have rules regarding vehicles, service, and uniforms that already have impact. I guess my question then is if you as the contractor see that FedEx does seem to blur the lines of contractor ran and company ran? Honest question here so leave the B.S. out please.

 

[MrFedEx]

Um, that would be because it was a state imposed sanction i.e. DL suspension, not a company one. Thought that was clear in the original post, maybe not though. Although it sounds to me like you are just trying to force a square peg into a round hole to further convince yourself that you are right. So maybe Express takes their cues from state law?

The FedEx standard is higher than the state's...at least where I live. The explosion of red light and speed cameras has made this a really big deal because more tickets are being "written" as states and municipalities try to generate cash. These type of tickets are usually classified as non-moving violations by the courts because they aren't written by a cop, but FedEx chooses to nail the driver with a moving violation. What a great way to cull the herd.

Express usually ignores state laws until someone sues them and forces compliance. The California settlement over breaks a few years back is a good example.

It's the same with Ground. FedEx recognizes laws that benefit the corporation and ignores those that cost it money. As I've said before, this is eventually going to be very costly, especially regarding Ground because states have a real need for funds right now, and law-breaking companies (like FedEx) are very juicy targets.

The rumor is that more lawsuits over breaks (not taking them) are in the works. California usually leads the way and then the rest of the states follow.

By the way, I have seen a lot of Ground vehicles for sale recently...at fire sale prices. How come? And these aren't just the old P1000's, but much newer stuff. If Ground is so great, why are people getting out?

 

[FedExer267]

Or a better recovery that is not a jobless recovery or a union or something. Wouldn't want to move to the midwest, would you?

Out of curiosity, lets stipulate to the point that, at least as a contractor, yours is a jerk. With all level headedness about us, what are your options as you see them? Where do you want to be and can you get there? How do you get there? What power do you have and what's the best way to yield it to achieve your goals?

I am not sure what the options are do I want better ofcourse I do dosent everyone. If I decided to become a contractor how would I do it? I am just a driver and have always been good at it. I do wonder however would it be prosperous or not I have heard horror stories from other contractors about not getting bonuses because of on driver however they have 4 routes. How does that work? How much control would I have? How would I even get there I work for a contractor so I am obviousley not rolling in the dough. Theres alot of questions I just dont see how I could get it going with what I have at this point any suggestions?

 

[bbsam]

The FedEx standard is higher than the state's...at least where I live. The explosion of red light and speed cameras has made this a really big deal because more tickets are being "written" as states and municipalities try to generate cash. These type of tickets are usually classified as non-moving violations by the courts because they aren't written by a cop, but FedEx chooses to nail the driver with a moving violation. What a great way to cull the herd.

Express usually ignores state laws until someone sues them and forces compliance. The California settlement over breaks a few years back is a good example.

It's the same with Ground. FedEx recognizes laws that benefit the corporation and ignores those that cost it money. As I've said before, this is eventually going to be very costly, especially regarding Ground because states have a real need for funds right now, and law-breaking companies (like FedEx) are very juicy targets.

The rumor is that more lawsuits over breaks (not taking them) are in the works. California usually leads the way and then the rest of the states follow.

By the way, I have seen a lot of Ground vehicles for sale recently...at fire sale prices. How come? And these aren't just the old P1000's, but much newer stuff. If Ground is so great, why are people getting out?

Speaking strictly of the driver in question, his driver's liscense was suspended for 2 months. Since that was the case, he could not drive. Not because Fedex said he couldn't, but because the state said so.

As for the Ground vehicles for sale, I would say three things. First simply growth. There have always been people coming in, deciding contracting wasn't for them and getting out. Since Ground is getting bigger I would suggest that number would also.

Second, contractor strategy. I myself have toyed the idea that it simply isn't worth keeping old trucks on the road. Mind you when I say "old" I mean past a six year lease period. Soon after that (2-3 years) it almost seems like one may as well be making a truck payment with all the repair bills mounting. And of course it's almost always nice to drive a new truck. The problem with this for me is that I don't really trust the new technology in vehicles. Seems to me they've gone too far with the electronics and computer technology to where it's become an Achilles heal in the new trucks.

Third. If you could provide me a link to where you see the "fire sale prices" I would be grateful. I might consider such a purchase although my favorite vehicles are still the '98-03 Internationals.

 

[bbsam]

I ask then rather or not you could make a profit if FedEx does ever force you to recognize your drivers as real employees. If you had to pay a competitive wage with benefits based on an hourly rate could you make profit. Or are the parameters that FedEx currently set forth for you make that impossible? I'm just curious cause Ive had discussions with both the drivers and contractor in my area and they seem to proclaim that FedEx currently does have rules regarding vehicles, service, and uniforms that already have impact. I guess my question then is if you as the contractor see that FedEx does seem to blur the lines of contractor ran and company ran? Honest question here so leave the B.S. out please.

Yes, the lines are blurred and that is exactly the way Fedex wants them. Fedex wants people to think the contract means that the company can do whatever it wants. That is the true smoke and mirror game they play.

Case in point. By contract I am limited to 25% of the contracts in the building.o With 6 I am at 21% 7 would put me at about 30%. I have a "supplemental van" that runs 80 stops, 280 packages, and 190 miles a day. When they finally decide to contract that area, one of three things will happen, all of which exceed the 25% rule. 1.) I will sign a contact under a second sub-S corporation. 2.) The company will issue an "exception" (I'm told they do this) or 3.) My wife will go from being a qualified driver to being the companies newest contractor.

Other issues you brought up like vehicles and uniforms are an interesting case. The company has very strict guidelines for contracted vehicles but they are more procedural than anything. The last p1000 I pruchased was actually an company spare that had been scrapped. Paid $5000 for it, had new brakes, front end, steering column, paint buffed and some electrical problems fixed for a total of $7000. You know what the biggest impediment was to getting that vehicle on the road was? Getting the decals in the right place for the people in Pittsburgh to approve the appearance.

As far as supplemental vehicles go, take your pick and Home Delivery will have a vehicle number for you the next morning. My latest supplemental vehicle (and my favorite) is a 2002 Ford Econoline 15 passenger (seats removed) with a Quigley 4X4 conversion (very handy in midwest winters). Still need to get the windows tinted black, but very, very bad a**.

I guess the point is that althogh the company has the contract in hand, I think they are reluctant to try to enforce it in a Gestapo manner like they use to. They now have a very large legal department that is required to review all and any "disciplinary" action. The last thing this company wants are petty legal battles over what kind of navy blue pants fit the required uniform standard.

Finally, could I pay a competitive wage with benefits? I assume you mean UPS scale. No. Nor do I want to. What you are asking me in essence is if Fedex were to increase my pay by, say 50% would my drivers see an increase. My answer remains the same as before. Some would some wouldn't. My objective, however, is not necessarily to employ someone for the next 30 years and take care of them and their family. I don't mind turnover. There are times that I exalt in turnover. I plan for turnover. That being said, there are a couple who would deserve that kind of pay and benefit package and if they were to come to me and ask to use me as a reference for UPS, I would do so gladly if I couldn't match UPS's offer.

 

[bbsam]

I am not sure what the options are do I want better ofcourse I do dosent everyone. If I decided to become a contractor how would I do it? I am just a driver and have always been good at it. I do wonder however would it be prosperous or not I have heard horror stories from other contractors about not getting bonuses because of on driver however they have 4 routes. How does that work? How much control would I have? How would I even get there I work for a contractor so I am obviousley not rolling in the dough. Theres alot of questions I just dont see how I could get it going with what I have at this point any suggestions?

You obviously have talent worth paying for. Shop yourself around. First to your current contractor then to others. Listen/watch closely for contractors struggling with drivers or service related issues. Don't be afraid to bring up the idea of a possible sale to yourself.

Consider this. Not every contractor is a good business person. Target him or her. They are probably looking for an exit strategy. You will know this person by their willingness to share with you all the settlement stubs (pay stubs) they have ever received pointing out the CCS bonus 2.25% quarterly bonus, added service blah, blah, blah. It will look very attractive, in short because it can be. Best bet is a multi route owner looking to sell one route because he doesn't then have to go find a job. Get information. Then get more. Profit/Loss, growth over time for a given route, vehicle maintenance file with invoices. You do all this for two reasons. First is to take to a bank for possible SBA or other loan. The second is because he/she is either desperate, or a capitalist and in both instances will begin salivating uncontrollably. Go apply for loans. Apply for 2 or 3 at different lending institutions. Soon the contractor will be asking you questions. "Heard back from the bank yet?" "Need any more information?" "Did you hear they might be putting in a Walmart over there where that route begins?" At this point the route is nearly ripe for the taking. The bank may or may not loan the money. Hard to tell these days. Even if they do, do not let the contractor know this. You are in the driver's seat now. Suggest that things aren't looking good at the bank, but you'd be able to pay $X per month for Y months at say 4% interest. Of course the agreement would be notarized, blah, blah, blah. This is called an owner financed sale. If you crunch the numbers honestly by the time all the I's are dotted and T's crossed, you've probably netted yourself at least a 20-25% pay increase with terms very favorable to yourself.

Bottom line. You owe it to yourself and your family to make something happen either as a driver with this contractor, another contractor, or as a contractor yourself.

 

[MrFedEx]

Speaking strictly of the driver in question, his driver's liscense was suspended for 2 months. Since that was the case, he could not drive. Not because Fedex said he couldn't, but because the state said so.

As for the Ground vehicles for sale, I would say three things. First simply growth. There have always been people coming in, deciding contracting wasn't for them and getting out. Since Ground is getting bigger I would suggest that number would also.

Second, contractor strategy. I myself have toyed the idea that it simply isn't worth keeping old trucks on the road. Mind you when I say "old" I mean past a six year lease period. Soon after that (2-3 years) it almost seems like one may as well be making a truck payment with all the repair bills mounting. And of course it's almost always nice to drive a new truck. The problem with this for me is that I don't really trust the new technology in vehicles. Seems to me they've gone too far with the electronics and computer technology to where it's become an Achilles heal in the new trucks.

Third. If you could provide me a link to where you see the "fire sale prices" I would be grateful. I might consider such a purchase although my favorite vehicles are still the '98-03 Internationals.

All of the Ground vehicles I've seen for sale were on Craigslist. I live on the left coast and don't want to reveal my location, but you could find them without much problem. One was a P1000 and the other 2 were the larger Utilimaster-type walk-ins. I didn't research the ads much further than the asking price and initial description. If I were a contractor, I'd probably do the same thing you did and buy something used and put it back into top-notch shape, thereby saving myself some major dollars. It sounds like you use whatever you want to in your area.

 

[Brown287]

Yes, the lines are blurred and that is exactly the way Fedex wants them. Fedex wants people to think the contract means that the company can do whatever it wants. That is the true smoke and mirror game they play.

Case in point. By contract I am limited to 25% of the contracts in the building.o With 6 I am at 21% 7 would put me at about 30%. I have a "supplemental van" that runs 80 stops, 280 packages, and 190 miles a day. When they finally decide to contract that area, one of three things will happen, all of which exceed the 25% rule. 1.) I will sign a contact under a second sub-S corporation. 2.) The company will issue an "exception" (I'm told they do this) or 3.) My wife will go from being a qualified driver to being the companies newest contractor.

Other issues you brought up like vehicles and uniforms are an interesting case. The company has very strict guidelines for contracted vehicles but they are more procedural than anything. The last p1000 I pruchased was actually an company spare that had been scrapped. Paid $5000 for it, had new brakes, front end, steering column, paint buffed and some electrical problems fixed for a total of $7000. You know what the biggest impediment was to getting that vehicle on the road was? Getting the decals in the right place for the people in Pittsburgh to approve the appearance.

As far as supplemental vehicles go, take your pick and Home Delivery will have a vehicle number for you the next morning. My latest supplemental vehicle (and my favorite) is a 2002 Ford Econoline 15 passenger (seats removed) with a Quigley 4X4 conversion (very handy in midwest winters). Still need to get the windows tinted black, but very, very bad a**.

I guess the point is that althogh the company has the contract in hand, I think they are reluctant to try to enforce it in a Gestapo manner like they use to. They now have a very large legal department that is required to review all and any "disciplinary" action. The last thing this company wants are petty legal battles over what kind of navy blue pants fit the required uniform standard.

Finally, could I pay a competitive wage with benefits? I assume you mean UPS scale. No. Nor do I want to. What you are asking me in essence is if Fedex were to increase my pay by, say 50% would my drivers see an increase. My answer remains the same as before. Some would some wouldn't. My objective, however, is not necessarily to employ someone for the next 30 years and take care of them and their family. I don't mind turnover. There are times that I exalt in turnover. I plan for turnover. That being said, there are a couple who would deserve that kind of pay and benefit package and if they were to come to me and ask to use me as a reference for UPS, I would do so gladly if I couldn't match UPS's offer.

Good I like this wave of honesty, now I ask you is it true about the FedEx mandated Health care for Ground drivers that is to be provided by you the contractor. If that is to be the case will this impede in your ability to make a decent profit. I know that we have bickered back and forth on how good you have it, but is there a thresh hold as far as profit is concerned that this venture is no longer worth the trouble?
I have a good relationship with both the Ground drivers and contractor and in talking to all they seem to all agree that FedEx seems to change the rules to benefit them, and in some cases is making harder to make a decent profit. Have you experienced this as well?

 

[FedExer267]

You obviously have talent worth paying for. Shop yourself around. First to your current contractor then to others. Listen/watch closely for contractors struggling with drivers or service related issues. Don't be afraid to bring up the idea of a possible sale to yourself.

Consider this. Not every contractor is a good business person. Target him or her. They are probably looking for an exit strategy. You will know this person by their willingness to share with you all the settlement stubs (pay stubs) they have ever received pointing out the CCS bonus 2.25% quarterly bonus, added service blah, blah, blah. It will look very attractive, in short because it can be. Best bet is a multi route owner looking to sell one route because he doesn't then have to go find a job. Get information. Then get more. Profit/Loss, growth over time for a given route, vehicle maintenance file with invoices. You do all this for two reasons. First is to take to a bank for possible SBA or other loan. The second is because he/she is either desperate, or a capitalist and in both instances will begin salivating uncontrollably. Go apply for loans. Apply for 2 or 3 at different lending institutions. Soon the contractor will be asking you questions. "Heard back from the bank yet?" "Need any more information?" "Did you hear they might be putting in a Walmart over there where that route begins?" At this point the route is nearly ripe for the taking. The bank may or may not loan the money. Hard to tell these days. Even if they do, do not let the contractor know this. You are in the driver's seat now. Suggest that things aren't looking good at the bank, but you'd be able to pay $X per month for Y months at say 4% interest. Of course the agreement would be notarized, blah, blah, blah. This is called an owner financed sale. If you crunch the numbers honestly by the time all the I's are dotted and T's crossed, you've probably netted yourself at least a 20-25% pay increase with terms very favorable to yourself.

Bottom line. You owe it to yourself and your family to make something happen either as a driver with this contractor, another contractor, or as a contractor yourself.

Thanks for the information bbsam. One question I am in a MVC state which means Id have to pickup atleast 2 routes or is there anyway around that for someone who is just starting out?

 

[bbsam]

Good I like this wave of honesty, now I ask you is it true about the FedEx mandated Health care for Ground drivers that is to be provided by you the contractor. If that is to be the case will this impede in your ability to make a decent profit. I know that we have bickered back and forth on how good you have it, but is there a thresh hold as far as profit is concerned that this venture is no longer worth the trouble?
I have a good relationship with both the Ground drivers and contractor and in talking to all they seem to all agree that FedEx seems to change the rules to benefit them, and in some cases is making harder to make a decent profit. Have you experienced this as well?

I have not heard any mention of Fedex mandated health care for drivers. I have often wondered why the company that Ground uses doesn't offer a contractor health benefit program.

If there is a mandate, like when all contractors had to begin purchasing workman's comp., the company increased settlement. They are always careful not to call it offsetting, but it seems like that is the case.

As far as the thresh hold goes, I don't really understand. Generally speaking volume and settlement has increased. Without knowing the specific contractor and his business practices, it's hard to tell what the thresh hold would be. Personally, I've never looked for one or felt in the least bit close to having to throw in the towel.

 

[bbsam]

Thanks for the information bbsam. One question I am in a MVC state which means Id have to pickup atleast 2 routes or is there anyway around that for someone who is just starting out?

I do not believe there is a way around that. Not that I think you should want to find a way around it. Multi route ownership is the way to go. This just puts you that much farther ahead.