Well....I had my local level hearing.

[trplnkl]

The compassion on this thread is underwhelming.

 

[bbsam]

The compassion on this thread is underwhelming.

Compassion left with Integrity. Both were seen fleeing the twins Truth and Justice.

 

[Sick of Intimidation]

My State Panel hearing this past week was deadlocked. I did the same thing at the hearing that I did here telling my story in that I laid all of my cards on the table and told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I admitted to wrongdoings and err in judgement. Finally having a chance to unload all this stuff actually made me feel pretty good.

When I was hired many years ago to work at this company by a man named Gary, Gary stated that "son, here at UPS we don't sell any products, all we sell is service. At UPS we also have some cardinal rules that all UPSer's must abide by, both hourly and management, and that is honesty. Son, no matter what you do wrong, always tell the truth and most likely you will be given another chance." So you can imagine my surprise when my center manager, my OJS, and the UPS Labor guy were telling lies. Let me explain. My center manager was honest and told the truth, exaggerating slightly, about everything except for one incident and I understood why because there's a chance he would lose his job if he admitted to it. The incident in question happened years ago and I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread. My center manager started screaming at me in the office before my start time and I started walking to the exit door telling him that if he was gonna scream, to at least wait until my start time. He quickly ran over to the exit door, grabbed me by my arm and shoved me against the wall. I immediately told him to let go of my arm and he complied. I then went to another office and called my BA and the police so it could be documented that this took place. He explained to the panel that this had happened after my start time and all he'd done was put his hand up telling me to stop and I walked into his hand!!!!

The UPS Labor guy's lie was that he had NOT given my BA permission to get a statement from the customer/employee at the tractor dealership. The UPS chairman on the panel specifically asked him again if he'd given the BA permission and why did UPS not obtain a statement from the customer. UPS labor guys answer was because I hadn't given him permission to obtain a statement so there was no reason to get a backup statement. My BA, my steward, and myself immediately looked to our left in unisyn because at the local level hearing, the BA asked for and was granted permission to obtain the statement. It was such a surprise to him that he clearly asked him a 2nd time just to confirm and the labor guy told him it wasn't a problem. It looked bad against the UPS labor guy at the panel because the chairman asked him how long he'd had possesion of said statement and his answer was a couple of weeks. So the chairman asked him, why the **** didn't we get our own statement if you had 2 weeks? He didn't know what to say. It was actually quite comical to see him squirm.

The biggest liar of them all was the OJS and his answers were the ones most troubling for me, not because of the damaging testimony, but rather because I had made the mistake of going out of my way to offer to help him after his divorce. This OJS has been a wreck ever since his wife of 20+years left him and moved 1200 miles away. He had to move out of his house and had no place for his dog. He had driven by my house numerous times while out with another driver so he'd noticed that my dogs were always out and that they have acreage to run around with the protection from an underground electric fence. I told him that if he was willing to purchase an electric collar for his dog, that I would train it to the invisible fence and make sure his dog was fed and watered. I also offered him my truck to move with since he drives a sub-compact car. So you can picture my surprise when just a few months later, this same guy is lying through his teeth trying to take my job. The union chairman asked this sup if he had sworn at me and his answer was no. Then the UC asked him if he'd ever sworn at a driver in his 22 year career and his answer was no while slumped in his chair with a smirk on his face. The UC, who stands about 6'7", bald, and has a voice as deep as Pavarati's, comes unglued on him and calls the sup a ****ing liar!! Then all hell breaks loose between the union and the company and both parties are asked to leave the room while they have a chance to cool off. Anyway, it's bothersome that I offered to help the same prick that is trying to take my job away from me.

 

[Sick of Intimidation]

The state panel was a brutal experience, but I learned from it. Several people who had set in on the hearing came up to me afterwords and congratulated me on a job well done and that it was clear that I wasn't holding anything back and that I was being truthful. They also said that it was clear who was lying in the room. Granted, these people were stewards/union people from other locals. But, my local president later told me that he had spoken with another UPS labor guy about the hearing and he feels I was being truthful and was surprised that neither of the UPS panel members, which was only 2, didn't vote for me to be reinstated. I guess the UPS labor guy handling the case and my sup. received an ass chewing for their performance.

So now I have 2+ months of waiting for the JAC. I'm not sure how the JAC works. Can anyone shed any light on how the JAC process works?

 

[tieguy]

The state panel was a brutal experience, but I learned from it. Several people who had set in on the hearing came up to me afterwords and congratulated me on a job well done and that it was clear that I wasn't holding anything back and that I was being truthful. They also said that it was clear who was lying in the room. Granted, these people were stewards/union people from other locals. But, my local president later told me that he had spoken with another UPS labor guy about the hearing and he feels I was being truthful and was surprised that neither of the UPS panel members, which was only 2, didn't vote for me to be reinstated. I guess the UPS labor guy handling the case and my sup. received an ass chewing for their performance.

So now I have 2+ months of waiting for the JAC. I'm not sure how the JAC works. Can anyone shed any light on how the JAC process works?

I've never known arbitrated discharge decisions to take that long. I think someone on your side may already know the answer.

 

[grgrcr88]

The state panel was a brutal experience, but I learned from it. Several people who had set in on the hearing came up to me afterwords and congratulated me on a job well done and that it was clear that I wasn't holding anything back and that I was being truthful. They also said that it was clear who was lying in the room. Granted, these people were stewards/union people from other locals. But, my local president later told me that he had spoken with another UPS labor guy about the hearing and he feels I was being truthful and was surprised that neither of the UPS panel members, which was only 2, didn't vote for me to be reinstated. I guess the UPS labor guy handling the case and my sup. received an ass chewing for their performance.

So now I have 2+ months of waiting for the JAC. I'm not sure how the JAC works. Can anyone shed any light on how the JAC process works?

The JAC(Joint Area Council) Will work very much the same as your state hearing, just different, higher level, panel members on both sides.

Tie, thos is not to arbitration yet, the JAC panel hearings only happen every 3 months, so if the timing is just right it could be up to 3 months between a state hearing and a JAC hearing.

 

[Sick of Intimidation]

The JAC(Joint Area Council) Will work very much the same as your state hearing, just different, higher level, panel members on both sides.

Tie, thos is not to arbitration yet, the JAC panel hearings only happen every 3 months, so if the timing is just right it could be up to 3 months between a state hearing and a JAC hearing.

Will there be more people on each side to decide my fate at the JAC? You're right about the 3 months between JAC hearings. I guess the next one held is in September for our area. I was told at the state panel, there would be 3 union and 3 ups people, but it ended up being 2 & 2, which I feel hurt me because it changes the dynamic of the vote since each panel person knows how the other voted unlike 3 people where there would be doubt on how each voted.

What happens if the decision is a deadlock at the JAC? National? Deadlock at National?

 

[tieguy]

The JAC(Joint Area Council) Will work very much the same as your state hearing, just different, higher level, panel members on both sides.

Tie, thos is not to arbitration yet, the JAC panel hearings only happen every 3 months, so if the timing is just right it could be up to 3 months between a state hearing and a JAC hearing.

No arbitrator on his panel? what a long drawn out process. You'd think we could have set up a system that does not take so long.

 

[grgrcr88]

Will there be more people on each side to decide my fate at the JAC? You're right about the 3 months between JAC hearings. I guess the next one held is in September for our area. I was told at the state panel, there would be 3 union and 3 ups people, but it ended up being 2 & 2, which I feel hurt me because it changes the dynamic of the vote since each panel person knows how the other voted unlike 3 people where there would be doubt on how each voted.

What happens if the decision is a deadlock at the JAC? National? Deadlock at National?

I think its a three man panel(for each side) at the JAC, if that deadlocks it would go to the National 2 man panel, which is 1 company and 1 Union member to decide it. I would be very suprised if it deadlocks at JAC though.

 

[tieguy]

I'm confused what is this state panel he is referring to then?

 

[grgrcr88]

I'm confused what is this state panel he is referring to then?

The grievance procedures in this area start with the local level hearing. Usually just the Labor Manager and the Business Agent present their sides anf try to come to an agreement on discipline, if they cannot it is deadlocked to the next level. Depending on where your located it may be a single state or as many as 3 state hearing. Here we have Kansas,Nebraska,And Missouri all in the same "State Hearings". It is comprised of a panel of three labor and three Union members. The panel members are high ranking company and Union officers from across the country that travel to these hearings all across the country. Many of them are part of the national negotiating comitee that helped write the contract . They will also hear the case presented by each side, have their closed door discussions and try to reach an agreement between them. Again if no decision is agreed to it goes to the next level. That is the Joint Area Council hearings. Which I referred to earlier. The final step is the 2 man national.

 

[tieguy]

The grievance procedures in this area start with the local level hearing. Usually just the Labor Manager and the Business Agent present their sides anf try to come to an agreement on discipline, if they cannot it is deadlocked to the next level. Depending on where your located it may be a single state or as many as 3 state hearing. Here we have Kansas,Nebraska,And Missouri all in the same "State Hearings". It is comprised of a panel of three labor and three Union members. The panel members are high ranking company and Union officers from across the country that travel to these hearings all across the country. Many of them are part of the national negotiating comitee that helped write the contract . They will also hear the case presented by each side, have their closed door discussions and try to reach an agreement between them. Again if no decision is agreed to it goes to the next level. That is the Joint Area Council hearings. Which I referred to earlier. The final step is the 2 man national.

sounds like a big waste of money for both sides

 

[just interested]

Just read the entire thread ~ couldn't sleep and this actually captivated me!

I find his story credible. I also think there was a lot of good advice given and am speculating that those who challenged him may have done so just to test the stuff he was made of and whether or not he'd snap from "poster abuse" syndrome!

Hoping to get some more shut eye now.....

 

[hdkappler]

Let me explain what led up to this point and it will take awhile. My center manager and I are like fire and ice/oil and water-we just don't mix. He is a major prick at the center, a smart ass, the kind of center manager who doesn't build people up but tears them down. He may be a good guy away from work, but I wouldn't know. He actually enjoys many of the same activities outside of work as I do such as traveling north, snowmobiling, jet skiing, fast cars etc. He's one of those people who thinks that the brand of toys that he owns are simply the best and the brands you own suck!! He likes Fords and Arctic Cats, so my Honda and Polaris suck!! My $23,000 BMW motorcycle is also a piece of crap and the Ducati I owned before that was the ugliest bike he'd ever seen. He seems to be very insecure as well and likes to throw 1 liners at you that he thinks are hilarious and i'm known for being quite witty with comebacks that make people laugh at him. Example-one morning he was in my face and his breath smelled like he'd eaten a **** sandwich for breakfast. I told him "No offense, but i'm gonna have to take a few steps back cause I can't take your breath, I think you have a rotting tooth and you should have your dentist check that out." I didn't mean to hurt his feelings, but I myself had just eaten breakfast and i'm sensitive to bad smells after I eat and I felt as if I was gonna hurl unless I put some distance between me and his breath. He is the exact opposite of our previous center manager who genuinely cared about us and would show it by asking us about our families well being and cooking breakfast and dinner for us from time to time on his grill!! The previous center manager was a mans man. He would make decisions on his own without asking his boss and then deal with the consequences later.

Things turned real bad between my current center manager and I a couple years ago. My wife delivered a stillborn baby which led to a long and drawn out divorce. 2 months after the divorce was final, my very best friend of all time was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident. I had also almost lossed my father twice in the same year. I had to miss quite a bit to deal with all of this stuff-court dates, hospital visits, funeral, etc. Many of you will, i'm sure, agree that UPS doesn't have much compassion for people and their personal lives and if you can't come to work and hump and dump them packages, they could care less about you and what you're going through. After my best friends death, I took some time off for stress, but I did NOT collect a dime of STD cause it was my problem to deal with and I didn't feel I deserved compensation. Shortly after I came back to work, I was called into the office to and issued a warning letter for my attendance. I asked him how he slept at night giving me this knowing what i'd been through. He said he slept just fine and he didn't give two ****s about my divorce and he didn't even care about my best friend dying, that he had a business to run and I needed to start coming to work. That's when I lossed all respect for him. A couple weeks later I signed up for an 8 hour request. The next morning I walked into talk with my dispatch sup. because my day looked as if they'd forgot to check the 8hour sign up sheet. I asked him if my 8hr had been denied and he said no, that is was approved and he agreed that he needed to remove quite a few stops. The center manager walks in and asks what we were doing and the dispatch sup told him that we were going over what area to pull off cause I had way to much work for my 8hr. He said no, leave the stops on his car, if he wants to get done, it's up to him. I was like hey, i'm just trying to keep you from putting out a fire later because I have to be done and I will punch out after 8 hours, so i'll call ya later. His answer was, when you call, the answer will be no help and if you bring back 1 stop I will fire you. I replied, well I guess i'm gonna get fired in the morning because I will bring back the work if I can't get it done, I've done it before and i'll do it again and I wasn't ever terminated for calling the bluff. He started screaming at me, so I said, hey if you're gonna scream, at least wait till my start time, and I started walking towards the exit door from the office. He jumped up and came over and pushed me up against the wall and grabbed my arm and got between me and the door. I told him to let go of my arm. He complied. I then went to the other office and called the cops and my BA at the union and told them I needed them to come over. I filed a greivance for harassment and him putting his hands on me. I guess it pissed him off royally that he had to answer to the cops, but he just lied and told them that he never touched me. I didn't have any witnesses since the dispatch sup had left the room after he had started screaming. At the local level hearing, he denied everything and since I couldn't prove he'd done it the only action that was taken was that him and I were not to be alone anywhere in the bldg. without a 3rd party. I lossed my cool and finally told him that if he had a stroke, I wouldn't call 911 and sometimes I wish he'd die on his way to work in an accident so I could jump for joy. I will admit that what I said wasn't right, but after his comments about my best friend, I let my emotions get the best of me. Nothing happened as a result. Quite a time passed after this and life went on. To be cont'd..........

was his int's g.v.

 

[island1fox]

With all that has been said and done ----one final question : Who really did shoot J.R. ?

 

[newupsers88]

Where was your union guy?The guys that I work with are very understanding and they always paint a good picture of me. I would never go to any meeting without a union representative. Theyu are paid to help you, and that is what their job is.

 

[Sick of Intimidation]

was his int's g.v.

No, P.P.

 

[grgrcr88]

Where was your union guy?The guys that I work with are very understanding and they always paint a good picture of me. I would never go to any meeting without a union representative. Theyu are paid to help you, and that is what their job is.

REALLY, WHO PAYS THEM? I am still waiting on that.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

REALLY, WHO PAYS THEM? I am still waiting on that.

I think he/she is talking about the paid reps, not stewards.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Well, it will be interesting to see where this thread goes.....

Some people complain UPS management are biased and draw conclusions without reason. Its interesting that those same people do exactly what they complain about.

I have no way of knowing if the original poster did anything to warrant discipline. There are absolutely no facts in the post. No one here knows the facts behind this, but many immediately use this as an opportunity to bash the company. They do exactly what they complain about....

I will withold opinion waiting for facts. I will watch as many others do not.

P-Man

P-Man - excellent stuff - However - Tie made a very good point "Part of determining whether what they said had substance (sp)(corrected) is to listen to the evidence and see if you actually did those things as charged."

Here is a pearl of wisdom... - " a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client". Now SOI may not be representing himself but his hatred and anger are probably clouding his judgment. He probably didn't even catch that pearl of wisdom that Tie throughout there at him.

Another pearl of wisdom - There is SOI story - UPS story, and then there is the truth. This is where arbitration comes in because a good arbitrator and one with integrety, will really try to get to the truth to render a fair judgment.

As for Sober - sometimes I think you must be drunk when you are posting. Occasionally, you have posts that make sense to me and then there is post #4 above. You really take your credibility and fling it right out the window with a post like that.