What do you think? The Utmost Importance of Safety at UPS.

[Bubblehead]

Re: Safe by Choice

Safety is Your Choice. The safety committee is there to bring you the "tools" and it is your choice to put them into action. If drivers have concerns go to a safety member and have it put on the concern log. If it does not get fixed, file a grievance or call the 800 number and file a complaint.

Safety is the choice for those with the fortitude and tenacity to take the money.
Isn't that what it's really all about?

 

[LongTimeComing]

Cold weather is cold weather. Is that a surprise? Do they only over dispatch you when it's cold? I'm just trying to figure out why your 'rub' is rubbing. Sometimes, things change, and we can't control them. Like.....the weather. If the 10+ hour dispatches are a problem, then they are a problem regardless. It's going to get cold outside either way, and shouldn't be a point of contention. Is the gripe the same when it's 100 degrees outside? I would say that the heat is a more valid point of concern than the cold....but you are in control of your own safety.

Clearly, you are too obtuse to recognize sarcasm. But what exactly would you like UPS to do about the cold? That's not a valid argument against 10+ hour dispatches....

 

[Bubblehead]

Cold weather is cold weather. Is that a surprise? Do they only over dispatch you when it's cold? I'm just trying to figure out why your 'rub' is rubbing. Sometimes, things change, and we can't control them. Like.....the weather. If the 10+ hour dispatches are a problem, then they are a problem regardless. It's going to get cold outside either way, and shouldn't be a point of contention. Is the gripe the same when it's 100 degrees outside? I would say that the heat is a more valid point of concern than the cold....but you are in control of your own safety.

Clearly, you are too obtuse to recognize sarcasm. But what exactly would you like UPS to do about the cold? That's not a valid argument against 10+ hour dispatches....

Hypocrisy is a problem for me no matter what the temperature.
The thread is about safety, something the company claims to put first.
Try and keep your eye on the ball.
My valid argument against 10+ hour dispatches is contained in the collective bargaining agreement, weather aside.
Take your drivel back to the tarmac.

 

[toonertoo]

NEWS FLASH!!!!! UPS announces today that they will no longer deliver packages in the winter because.....it's cold outside!!!


.....2 weeks later.......


NEWS FLASH!!!!! UPS has decided to close it's doors. Forever. Nobody can figure out why.

You must live in Minnesota where -19 is spring weather. Or in Fargo ND where -10 is a cool breeze. This is a thread about safety. It is not favorable to the perception of UPS to have their people out at 8pm at night when it is zero or 100.
No one said we should stop delivering because its cold. A caring company who really cared about the health of their employees would take it upon themselves during extreme temps to lighten up their people. Period. Dont be silly.
Bubble head hit in on the head. We dont fight for what we have available to us, so we have only ourselves to blame. BUT, in this thread about UPS and the importance of safety, with the drivel we have been forced to regurgitate, while it is all relevant, and works. Why do they not realize this, extreme heat and cold. A little outside of the box?
So take your news flash and bury it with the other pro company crap, and if you have the ability, maybe you could mention it to those you must hold up as heroes. Many other smaller companies accept that these few days we have, and thankfully they are few, maybe they will lighten up the load, show some care and appreciation for their employees. Talk about greed, good grief.

 

[toonertoo]

And for those of you who need the government to tell you how to handle the cold.
http://www.nmdhsem.org/uploads/FileLinks/161d000bfefa42f98eb4953daa59e9aa/19%20Winter%20Storms%20and%20Extreme%20Cold.pdf
Take extreme interest to the pointers of driving a car. Do it in the day, avoid backroads. As for frostbite, well the longer you are out the more likely it becomes, your body does run out of fuel. Especially when you work through the normal dinner time.

 

[LongTimeComing]

Drivel? Hypocrisy? Where?

I see people whining about cold weather. What would you like for UPS to do about that? Where in the contract does it say anything about "COLD WEAHTER NOT ALLOWED"?

Weather is always a safety concern. Extreme cold or hot. Wet, icy, snow, high winds, lightening, fog....you name it. What would you like UPS to do? Are the 10+ hour days OK if it's bright, sunny, and 70? No grievences for those days?



And since you still lack any sort of understanding of my tarmac.....My guys get to stand around on a huge slab of concrete for up to (and over) 10 hours in 15 degree, windy weather....in sleet and snow.....without any sort of substantial cover. They don't start working until you are done with your long day driving. It's part of the job. For some reason, they seem to be able to accept that. Is it, at times, a possible safety concern? Duh. Be more careful. Can't really drop everything and stop because peoples hands are cold....

So, again, please explain to my why the cold is a problem, and what you want UPS to do about it?

 

[LongTimeComing]

So, when UPS takes stops off of everyone in the center to lighten their loads....then what do we do about all the missed service?

 

[LongTimeComing]

My whole point is.....if it's cold....put on a jacket. Put on 2 jackets. A hat. Something. Make yourself warm.

Being over-dispatched is an entirely different problem, which I AGREE needs to be fixed and addressed one way or another. Being over-dispatched....IN the cold....adds insult to injury, but cry me a river. One has nothing to do with the need to fix the other.

 

[toonertoo]

On your second point, why would we have missed service, if they lightened us up? Put all available drivers on the road.
I obviously do not know what you do,(my lack of understanding of your tarmac, which I doubt is YOUR tarmac) but when your guys are on the tarmac for 10 hrs plus, why is that? If they dont start working til we are done, what do they do, stand on an empty tarmac? Dont they get breaks, and a warm place to recoup?
And they are not your guys, they are employees. And where might you be during this time, and if what you say is true, why dont you have more people on to rotate them to get them out of extreme cold? or heat? Fill me in, ye who has all answers.

 

[LongTimeComing]

On your second point, why would we have missed service, if they lightened us up? Put all available drivers on the road.
I obviously do not know what you do,(my lack of understanding of your tarmac, which I doubt is YOUR tarmac) but when your guys are on the tarmac for 10 hrs plus, why is that? If they dont start working til we are done, what do they do, stand on an empty tarmac? Dont they get breaks, and a warm place to recoup?
And they are not your guys, they are employees. And where might you be during this time, and if what you say is true, why dont you have more people on to rotate them to get them out of extreme cold? or heat? Fill me in, ye who has all answers.

Is there a problem with calling my employees 'my guys'? We all get along...we all work well together. Is that against the contract?

A tarmac...is the ramp. The ramp is where my airplanes are. They are 'mine' because they are 'mine' to load. Those next day air packages? We have to get them from the hubs and centers once you guys get back to the building. They go through the sort. They come to us at the airport. Our start time is 20:00. Air shuttles and A5 air trailers start getting to us around 21:00.

There's not many places to hide out in the middle of a giantic concrete slab. We are probably a quarter of a mile away from our building. During our busy times, we use every available person. We get doublers from the other shift. We are at the mercy of the system...both the flight schedules, and when hubs and centers feed us the volume. Depending on how jacked up things are, we can be there all through the night. There are some down times....but they can't be scheduled....it's the nature of an air gateway. Soemtimes there's a matter of an hour or two between aircraft....sometimes minutes. The air network can't be behind. We do what we have to, as safe as we can.


They are driving heavy equipment that load the jets...they are driving tugs, belt loaders, pushbacks, de-ice trucks, forklifts.....outside, in the weather. I am out there standing directly in the middle of all of it....I load plan the jets, instruct the guys on what goes where, how, and when. So yes, before you assume that I'm in a nice warm office..... I'm in the middle of the barren, wide open, no cover wasteland that is a tarmac during the dead of winter with the rest of my guys. I have no sympathy for complaints of the weather being too cold. Some of us honestly don't have a choice but to deal with it being the nature of the job. You can't expect to work here and not have to deal with that kind of stuff.

 

[over9five]

Been on many ramps. You guys are directly in the weather, and its always windy as hell, I'll give you that.
But there's no way you work as hard as a package driver. There's always a bunch of you, and all you're doing is rolling cans. Easy work when there's so many of you.
The package driver does all his/her work alone. Unlike ramp guys, the package driver is physically exhausted at the end of the day. (and that's on a good day). Throw on the below zero temps, and the forced overtime becomes very dangerous.
That's what she's saying.

 

[toonertoo]

And I appreciate your position. I could not do it. I dont have a problem with you calling it yours, some do. And yes you are at the mercy of the system, as are we. There is nothing in the contract that I know of that says you cant call your group yours, and when you work together as a team, and they feel the same, I think its a good thing.
Where are you Louisville?
But I still can complain, its too cold. To keep anyone ot there ten hours, tarmac, or truck, because its too much. Unless they have significant downtime, to recoup. We do not and it sounds like you do not. Its about safety at our company, and yes its necessary to fulfill these duties to keep the system running, but I think its too much for the health of employees. And I think if UPS was worried about the safety of tarmac employees, they would do something to lessen the severity. Such as more floating employees, to give breaks to others. I realize they would need to be highly trained, but its not like UPS doesnt have any money........
I understand your loyalty, I used to be like you. Now I am not. Stay warm.

 

[Signature Only]

Well how about this: Last Friday a West LA District Safety Rep tried to pull over a driver from our center on U.S. 101 because she thought the driver was texting, (turned out to be a wardrobe adjustment). This safety rep tried cutting the driver off, followed said driver for 30 miles weaving in & out of traffic, pulling along side the UPS car and shaking her fist.

This safety person in not known in our center and her car has out of state plates. The driver figured she was some meth-head freak. This so called safety official put at least 100 lives at risk that morning including hers. This incident was witnessed by at least 100 people commuting to work that morning.

Our HR rep tried talking the driver out of filing a complaint. 2 people have resigned from the safety committee, including the co-chair, and the center manager along with the harassment hotline was notified.

It remains to be seen what action the company will take.

Yeah UPS believes in safety

Just ask the California State Highway Patrol what they thought about it.

NEWS FLASH!!!!! UPS announces today that they will no longer deliver packages in the winter because.....it's cold outside!!!


.....2 weeks later.......


NEWS FLASH!!!!! UPS has decided to close it's doors. Forever. Nobody can figure out why.

 

[toonertoo]

Well how about this: Last Friday a West LA District Safety Rep tried to pull over a driver from our center on U.S. 101 because she thought the driver was texting, (turned out to be a wardrobe adjustment). This safety rep tried cutting the driver off, followed said driver for 30 miles weaving in & out of traffic, pulling along side the UPS car and shaking her fist.

This safety person in not known in our center and her car has out of state plates. The driver figured she was some meth-head freak. This so called safety official put at least 100 lives at risk that morning including hers. This incident was witnessed by at least 100 people commuting to work that morning.

Our HR rep tried talking the driver out of filing a complaint. 2 people have resigned from the safety committee, including the co-chair, and the center manager along with the harassment hotline was notified.

It remains to be seen what action the company will take.

Yeah UPS believes in safety

Just ask the California State Highway Patrol what they thought about it.

There ya go, and Thank you for helping to prove, the BS of this present campaign on safety. Its just the flavor of the month, next month it will be do not brake for squirrels.

 

[LongTimeComing]

Been on many ramps. You guys are directly in the weather, and its always windy as hell, I'll give you that.
But there's no way you work as hard as a package driver. There's always a bunch of you, and all you're doing is rolling cans. Easy work when there's so many of you.
The package driver does all his/her work alone. Unlike ramp guys, the package driver is physically exhausted at the end of the day. (and that's on a good day). Throw on the below zero temps, and the forced overtime becomes very dangerous.
That's what she's saying.

While you are accurate in the fact that those guys are not alone, saying it's easy work wrong. Moving around 50 cans that weigh 3500 - 4000lbs multiple times get's pretty tiring pretty fast. I WISH we had "so many of us". I plan my aircraft and stage my cans in such a way to minimize the amount of times they have to touch them. Having to stop, and restart moving a 2 ton container is not fun when all you have is 3-4 people. I can honestly say that I've had days at the airport that I would have traded for a busy day out on my route delivering. I would never say my employees worked as hard as I did when I delivered, but when times get tough....it's tough.

I have yet to disagree that forced overtime is a problem. It's always a problem. The weather is part of the calculated risk, as it's not something within the company's control. I'm not saying that "Well, because UPS says it's not important, means it's not important" I'm saying that the argument will be stonewalled if there's no other reason provided than the weather. Weather is supplemental, and expecting a company with as much work as we have to cater plans around 'just cold weather' is unrealistic. They should fix the forced overtime issue....because an exhausted driver is a liability even before the weather is calculated. The unpredictability of the weather is a calculated risk that needs to be adjusted to by the people who have to work in it. "Make adjustments to changing conditions" as it were......

I agree...dealing with it sucks. We do as much as we can to lessen the blow on our folks out on the ramp. Hide in the empty trailer till the next arrives....go inside if we have ample enough time, etc etc. I believe this is where the conflict is.....These package centers aren't showing a bit of concern....While I still find it a little silly for someone to complain about the cold...not getting any sort of concession or help from your management team would be quite disheartening. You would hope, being part of delivery, that these managers would understand the challenges more than they apparently are showing. It's a shame that there are places like this, and whether or not the issue of forced overtime gets completely fixed when the weather is challenging, I feel people would at least appreciate it if there was some effort put forth by their management team to try something.

 

[BrownArmy]

So, when UPS takes stops off of everyone in the center to lighten their loads....then what do we do about all the missed service?

Hire more drivers?

 

[LongTimeComing]

Hire more drivers?

so they can be laid off in a month when the weather changes?

 

[Dragon]

Well how about this: Last Friday a West LA District Safety Rep tried to pull over a driver from our center on U.S. 101 because she thought the driver was texting, (turned out to be a wardrobe adjustment). This safety rep tried cutting the driver off, followed said driver for 30 miles weaving in & out of traffic, pulling along side the UPS car and shaking her fist.

This safety person in not known in our center and her car has out of state plates. The driver figured she was some meth-head freak. This so called safety official put at least 100 lives at risk that morning including hers. This incident was witnessed by at least 100 people commuting to work that morning.

Our HR rep tried talking the driver out of filing a complaint. 2 people have resigned from the safety committee, including the co-chair, and the center manager along with the harassment hotline was notified.

It remains to be seen what action the company will take.

Yeah UPS believes in safety

Just ask the California State Highway Patrol what they thought about it.

I bet that the Safety Supervisor has little or no time behind the wheel or with the company..yet this is the person that will tank you on a audit in a heart beat.

 

[toonertoo]

Actually I was not
just complaining about the cold. The question was what do you think; the utmost impoortance of safety at ups.
The cold was just this months reason I do not believe they sincerely care, until someone gets hurt.

 

[Indecisi0n]

Every safety meeting goes the same:

Them: What can we do to cut down on accidents/injuries
Me: Fix dispatch, not dispatch people with 11 hrs everyday
Them: Workload has nothing to do with it
Me: Laugh and sit back in my chair