When did it all go wrong?

tre305

Well-Known Member
No respect = less production by the hourlys

Pretty much, heard something similar from an unload this morning. He said screw being positive in this place and try tying to help each other out, you have to come in here with a,negative mind state b/c if they (management) don't care then why should we?

In a way it makes sense b/c our primary sup is a complete dick. Heard her well her group one morning during a pcm that they had to hit nine brand the first hour and she didn't care How it got done. In her words "I don't care if we **** up every belt in the building get it done".

From that point on I lost all hope in this company and knew that, at least in my center that this hourlies against management fued will only get worse as time goes on.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
The pay gap between hourly employees and drivers have grown significantly - perhaps that's why hourly people may see drivers as taking most of the companies revenue. The starting pay was essentially unchanged for like 15 years from what people people $8/$9/hr was the starting rate in the '90's. While top rate went up quite a bit since the '90's.

Center management has gotten ridiculous because they're getting it in the ***** everyday from upper management. So we all get an earful.

And of course, upper management are slaves to earnings, ultimately.

"Hourly employees", as you put them, includes drivers. If you mean part timers, they could have changed their story in every single contract that has come up for a vote, had they only voted. Had they only voted...
 

sortaisle

Livin the cardboard dream
Regardless of when it started or the economics involved in why there's an us (haha...an...us...an..us..an.us.anus. I'm immature I know...) vs them mentality, at the end of the day, there's going to be executives that make 270 times the average wage of the employees and that points to greed and laziness on behalf of the common man to not be proactive in their bargaining process. So with greed, the fall of UPS started as soon as the company fell from Casey's hands and to a board of directors and the laziness of the common man in the Garden of Eden or when multiple celled organisms crawled out of the primordial soup (whichever tickles ya...they're others I know.) The strike and the public offering were just the gravy to the main course IMO.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Actually I think he meant part-timer hourly versus Full-time drivers.

He seems to have a good understanding who is actually screwing the part-timers.

Good understanding?

Last I checked, part time Teamsters had an more than an equal vote in every contract that full timers voted on. Exactly, how are we screwing the part timers?

I never let the air out of a part timer's tires in the parking lot. I never stole a part timer's girlfriend. I never screamed at a part timer for the junk yard dog load in my package car. I certainly never told anyone that part timers were paid just enough or too much.

No, that was on your side of the tie.

Full time drivers never held part time wages at 8 and 9 bucks an hour for 30 years.

At the end of the day, the simple numbers indicate that had part timers, as a whole, take any serious interest in the issues that affect them, they could have taken control of every contract.

They never have, and most of that fault lies at our union's feet, to the pleasure of guys like you. Because they could have permanently stole your lunch and mine too if they had any organization at all. Hell, they could have gutted the whole company if they wanted to. Maybe it was lucky for you and I that they couldn't figure out how. I believe they could have found a happy medium somewhere between where they are and where they could be comfortable.

But UPS won't budge, and they won't or can't fight it. I'm on record in these forums stating that our full time wages are good enough, and have been for some time now. And our position as a union should be strengthening up our flanks, and if that means bumping wages for seniority part timers up or giving them rights that keeps our numbers on the inside strong, and outsiders on the outside, then that's what we should do. But that opinion carries little weight around here.

Hell, son, you and I aren't so different. You're retired, and I'm in feeders. You like diversification in your portfolio, and I like a wide selection of craft beers in my basement fridge. I swore off the package car threads, but can't help myself from sassing drivers who work off the clock and feel sorry for supervipers. And, I'm sure, at one point, you told yourself you were above the fray, but jumped back into the fire if only to think you could get under Bubblehead's or anonymous's skin.

Don't worry, the burners ignore my words too. They're too worried about what you retired managers think to slow down.

If it makes you feel any better, I picture the both of us fishing on some high dollar bass boat you bought with all of those millions of UPS stock. I'm standing at the back of the boat with you, when you gas the boat, throwing me off the back of the boat, into the the water. You're standing up, doubled over in laughter at my fate, completely oblivious to the chain that I've attached to the back of the boat. When it catches, the boat stops violently, shooting you off the front of the boat, into the lake.

And there we are, both floating without a boat, without beer, with bluegills nipping the hairs off our shins.

Guess what? Neither one of us is the most interesting man in the world.

Maybe now we should argue about how the part timers are screwing us over...
 
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cynic

Well-Known Member
Maybe they don't respect their supervisor. How long have they been a sup?

I can't respect my PT sup and they've been one for 17 years.

Why? Because the FT sup calls on the radio and tells the PT sup to give up people to go load ground and then the FT sup sends people from small sort to help unload trailers. So what purpose does the PT sup play in the operation? The PT sup should argue to keep our people and have people sent straight from small sort to ground - so how can you respect a PT sup that doesn't stick up for their workers?
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
I can't respect my PT sup and they've been one for 17 years.

Why? Because the FT sup calls on the radio and tells the PT sup to give up people to go load ground and then the FT sup sends people from small sort to help unload trailers. So what purpose does the PT sup play in the operation? The PT sup should argue to keep our people and have people sent straight from small sort to ground - so how can you respect a PT sup that doesn't stick up for their workers?

They are not his workers, they are resources to be used to execute a plan and to accomplish the desired goals.
The friend/T management person has the authority to move people as needed.
He/she is there for 17 years because he/she works as directed.
Why should this P/T Sup base his/her actions on your desires and ideas of what you think should be done?

That is why I asked the question earlier:
Why should a sup care whether his/her employees respect them?

Invariably, as you stated here, your respect will only be given when the sup does what you think he should do which is in direct conflict with the orders he has been given.

You are not as cynical as you can be ... a work in progress. :wink2:
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
Many say it was when UPS went public. I am sure the turning point was long before that. Why are the hour-lies and management such enemies? When did it become us versus them? It will never be fixed. I realize that......but it is a poison that will be the slow demise of this company.

With the FAST CHANGING IE technology being used to run the company in feeders and package and in the big modernized hubs the role of hands on management is QUICKLY becoming less necessary.

From what I see I think most management personnel NOW REALIZE MORE THAN EVER THAT THE TEAMSTERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR GREAT PAY.

There was much more friction back in the old days when managers actually made decisions without looking at IE software.
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
Exactly my point. I started at $8 in 2007 and older guys were telling me they started around that many years earlier. Didn't make sense at all.



Search function sucks on here. That's likely why we seen the same posts constantly. Do a search, and a million unrelated threads pop up.



Sorry, I meant part timers vs full time drivers.

maybe u should learn to use the search function better. Also PT vs ft isn't what this thread is about at all. Please stay on topic lol
 

thatsmypackage

Well-Known Member
Many say it was when UPS went public. I am sure the turning point was long before that. Why are the hour-lies and management such enemies? When did it become us versus them?
It will never be fixed. I realize that......but it is a poison that will be the slow demise of this company.

Funny, I though it was like that everywhere... Maybe 50 years ago management and union worked hand and hand, not anymore.
 

didyousheetit

Well-Known Member
What I see in my work group is constant resistance by some of the most senior drivers to anything our sup proposes. Whether it be good or bad the resistance is the same. There is no try to get along and get the job done. Let's just make life tough on the boss.
have been a driver for almost 30 years. Every new dr sup comes in with the same old "new" ideas and thinks they are going to change the world. After you go through about 40 of them you tend not to bother.
 

didyousheetit

Well-Known Member
Reinvent the wheel? Have had some sups and center manager's that did make a difference, at least until their higher boss found out.
Don't get me wrong had some really great sups and managers years ago. Problem is they either took the buyout years ago or went on to bigger and better things.
 

PT Car Washer

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong had some really great sups and managers years ago. Problem is they either took the buyout years ago or went on to bigger and better things.

A lot have retired recently or will be retiring as soon as eligible. Leaving us with the 90 day wonders and the DIAD training like we just had yesterday.
 

Insincerity

I'm Insincere
A lot have retired recently or will be retiring as soon as eligible. Leaving us with the 90 day wonders and the DIAD training like we just had yesterday.

Most people don't seem to think it will make much difference since Corporate makes all the decisions. Who gives the PCM should not make that much difference.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
That is why I asked the question earlier:
Why should a sup care whether his/her employees respect them?

Okay, I 'll raise. Why would I possibly care what a sup thinks?

I have seen about 30 different management employees come and go through my center in the 27 years I have been there.

Their opinions don't mean much to me. The guys working the routes next to me do matter to me.
 
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Catatonic

Nine Lives
Okay, I 'll raise. Why would I possibly care what a sup thinks?

I have seen about 30 different management employees come and go through my center in the 27 years I have been there.

Their opinions don't mean much to me. The guys working the routes next to me do matter to me.

OK. Sounds reasonable.
So we are in agreement?
 
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