When did it all go wrong?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by gman042, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. gman042

    gman042 Been around the block a few times

    Many say it was when UPS went public. I am sure the turning point was long before that. Why are the hour-lies and management such enemies? When did it become us versus them?
    It will never be fixed. I realize that......but it is a poison that will be the slow demise of this company.
  2. Gumby

    Gumby *

    Got that right!
  3. TooTechie

    TooTechie Geek in Brown

  4. JL 0513

    JL 0513 Well-Known Member

    The pay gap between hourly employees and drivers have grown significantly - perhaps that's why hourly people may see drivers as taking most of the companies revenue. The starting pay was essentially unchanged for like 15 years from what people people $8/$9/hr was the starting rate in the '90's. While top rate went up quite a bit since the '90's.

    Center management has gotten ridiculous because they're getting it in the :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: everyday from upper management. So we all get an earful.

    And of course, upper management are slaves to earnings, ultimately.
  5. Gumby

    Gumby *

    8 bucks an hour in the mid 80s
  6. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    this subject is brought up at least once a week. do a search and you'll be busy for a month.
  7. Re-Raise

    Re-Raise Well-Known Member

    Drivers are hourly employees.

    I think he was referring to the animosity between management and hourly employees, not between part-time and full-time employees.
  8. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    There is a tendency for Union versus management to exist anywhere, however ...
    UPS has a history, along with the Teamsters, of being cooperative and union employees getting compensated very well but the Teamsters made sure the employees worked hard as well.
    It was a mutually beneficial relationship as long as the industry was regulated.
    Government regulation of an industry ensures limited competition and a stable business climate that fluctuates with the economy.
    Deregulation of the industry began the slide because now UPS had to control costs much more than before.
    There were cutbacks in management staffing back in the late 70's and 80's on up through the 90's as a result.
    Healthcare costs were increasing very rapidly during the 80's and since these costs could not passed through to the customer unless all competitors did the same. UPS began to pass increasing costs above the CPI (roughly) to the non-Union employees.
    The contractual financial package for drivers and inside employees included this increasing cost as part of the contractual raises.
    There has been continual reluctance ​by the Teamsters to have Union employees absorb some of that cost via premiums and co-pays.
    This came up all the time during the early 1990's and onward as unsustainable.
    All this was causing strains on UPS financially and consultants warned UPS they had to take action to stem this ever increasing cost.
    As RPS grew, UPS now had a viable ground competitor that they never had before.
    Then came along the 1997 contract and UPS management felt that UPS employees were more loyal to UPS than the Teamsters.
    The strike proved that belief false and UPS management felt the Union employees had betrayed UPS.
    That is the pivotable moment when UPS changed from a patriarchal company that looked after it's employees to what you see today.
    UPS going public exacerbated that change in attitude and UPS basically behaved in such a manner that employees were simply resources and the company had no responsibility for the well-being of its employees.
    Fed-Ex incorporation of RPS and Calibre Systems caused more friction because UPS now had a formidable competitor in all sectors of it's business.
    International and Logistical arms of the company were seen as the future of UPS and UPS announced that in 2003 as well as a new logo and shield.
    In 2005, UPS began to refer to the UPS Brand as it's most important asset.

    UPS management changed during this period from owner-operators to simply being employees of UPS as we see today unless their management level is at the old Level 20. Management below the old Level 20 are not allowed to make decision but rather must execute within the framework of defined parameters and rules and regulations.
    UPS management that Teamster represented employees interact with are almost always below the old Level 20 and therefore, they are just employees of UPS executing a well-defined script.
    Level 20 and above management have extremely high goals they must meet or they will be replaced and in today's world likely fired. They have a lot of pressure on them and they have to exert pressure on those below them to achieve production and cost control goals.

    So, after all that, the bottom line is that competitive pressure and a centralized management control system has caused operations management to disassociate themselves from the resources represented by the Teamsters.
  9. JL 0513

    JL 0513 Well-Known Member

    Exactly my point. I started at $8 in 2007 and older guys were telling me they started around that many years earlier. Didn't make sense at all.

    Search function sucks on here. That's likely why we seen the same posts constantly. Do a search, and a million unrelated threads pop up.

    Sorry, I meant part timers vs full time drivers.
  10. chuchu

    chuchu Guest

    If a company promotes employees that have very little time in doing hourly work (and suck at it) there will always be a lack of respect from hourly employees toward that (now management) person...especially if he's arrogant toward the hourly workers.

    It seems like we get the lazy hrly people predominately going into the management arena. In this job you have to earn respect. It doesn't come free.
  11. Gumby

    Gumby *

    I almost read half of that post..........lol
  12. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    I anticipated that.
    I highlighted in red the condensed version for you.
  13. JL 0513

    JL 0513 Well-Known Member

    Read it all, good info. :wink2:
  14. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    ​Curious as to why you think management cares whether you respect them or not.
  15. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Actually I think he meant part-timer hourly versus Full-time drivers.

    He seems to have a good understanding who is actually screwing the part-timers.
  16. ohitsmochi

    ohitsmochi New Member

    No respect = less production by the hourlys
  17. Gumby

    Gumby *

    Dont forget to eat your fiber. and get some sleep Grandpa....................you need your brain power to pick out your part..B. coverage!...lol
  18. gman042

    gman042 Been around the block a few times

    What I see in my work group is constant resistance by some of the most senior drivers to anything our sup proposes. Whether it be good or bad the resistance is the same. There is no try to get along and get the job done. Let's just make life tough on the boss.
  19. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    ​Really? What difference does it make?
  20. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Maybe they don't respect their supervisor. How long have they been a sup?