A supervisor stands up to the IE manager...and pays the price

[helenofcalifornia]

Sleeve, don't let them do that to you. Tell someone at your center what is going on. This might get you in trouble later on.

 

[pretzel_man]

Funny, yet sad story. First day on road by myself.

Today I had 99 stops (mostly business, maybe 30 house call), 265 pc, 23 pickups, 165 pc

This is a 6 to 6.5 hour planned day according to the company and I.E.

Supervisor who followed me around all day in personal vehicle told me to not walk up stairs to residences, but throw the packages to the door. Supervisor instructed me to walk through peoples yards and even at one point a lovely flower garden to get to front door, rather than driveway and walkway.

I did not get a full meal period. I took a 10 minute break to basically sort the truck, a 15 minute "lunch" around 3:15pm, and another 10 minutes (useless) at 5:50pm because I was waiting for a letter box.

Does anyone believe the company has any interest in the employees safety, their well-being, the customers packages, a full lunch period between the 4th and 5th hour, 2 10 minute paid breaks plus 1 full unpaid hour?

6.5 hours on the WOR, or in the planning system?

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Sounds like you have already decided to raise the white flag.

I did, I went to feeders. I just hope I.E. doesn't push too hard to ruin, with unrealistic expectations, that job too. Then again, expecting us to clock in, get our assignment, find and pre-trip our tractor, get/find our trailer and pre-trip it, then out bound, all in 18 minutes, shows that living life in a fantasy world and expecting the real world to mirror it is I.E.'s modus operandi.

Too bad I didn't get one person in management who could get the pre-load to load my truck right for more then one day after being talked to. It always went right back to terrible. I don't know about you but I only had 11 and a 1/2 years of fighting the good fight in me.

As I have quoted here before, a supe once told me that the preload was and will always be bad. Maybe if I.E. accepted the fact that the preload cannot work within the parameters it is expected to, improvements could be made.

Sorting the load is a fact of life for a driver. You can deny this reality but it still exists.

Like Sober says: "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."

 

[brownrodster]

The only way preload could load your truck properly is if you had 50 stops loaded in a p12. And each stop was 1 package.

Preload does not have the time or space to do their job in a sufficient manner. You are jamming too many boxes in a small space to possibly load them in sequential order. You brick out a shelf as tight as possible. Then the driver sorts that brick when space opens up to do so. Whoever thinks that eliminating sorting is possible has never been a driver for more than 30 days. This is why so many drivers sort off the clock. Either before start or durning lunch. It saves that driver so much time and hastle and allows him be productive and punch out at a reasonable hour.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Absolutely true. That is why sort time should be figured into the allowance.

And remember, they want us to record that we have taken lunch. If we use that time to sort, well, it still shows that we have taken lunch. And they can still deny that sort time is necessary.

I refused to work on my own time.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

You know the rules, Sleeve. You let them walk all over you instead of doing the route by the methods. Sorting does not require break time. Sorting is working and if you twist your wrist or something, you were working, and don't even get me started about lunch!

Sleeve, don't let them do that to you. Tell someone at your center what is going on. This might get you in trouble later on.

Nothing I can do. I did try to explain, because I was sooo hungry, but they said you get a half hour after 3pm then another half when pickups are done in the bldg. !! lol

I have alot of respect for you drivers. Always have, but this has been a great learning experience! Much of it is to what a crock of **** you put up with every day.

6.5 hours on the WOR, or in the planning system?

I do not know what that means. Do not think I'm supposed to know, either, it seems.

Also you all make great points on preload. Not going to get into it, but again, the company wants to blame laziness but in fact it is simply 3-4 hours to complete 5 hours of work does not work.

When you have a stop with 7 businesses and 50 pieces, this should be seperated BEFORE the driver even gets on the road. Breaking down this one stop alone (and finding room for it) is a 10 minute job, nevermind the next 20 stops.

There is no way I.E. plans for this time in the workday, either. I do not buy it for one second if anyone says otherwise.

 

[Omega man]

So, SPORH is irrelevant to guage and "lock in" performance.
Over / Under is not accurate, so we cannot use that.

There is no way to determine driver performance then? Of course, I assume that that was going to be your argument anyway.

I guess there is no way to determine how many hours to expect a route to take? If that's the case, how can you blame management for over dispatching you?

P-Man

There is a way to gauge performance..........simply give us fair time allowances for what we do! You refuse to do that. You first must include many more variables if you want to model our job properly. You simply ignore the variables that UPS is so poor at like load quality. SPORH is by far the worst attempt. SPORH changes too much. It is related to the area density, which is the tied to the volume. As the volume and density decreases in a given area so does the production (SPORH). The whole reason why the over/under was developed was to give allowances for the variables in the model. SPORH does NOT do this.

 

[Omega man]

If that's the case then I guess we just disagree. I was a gunner for my first 6 or 7 years, in part because I thought making a lot of bonus was the mark of a "good" driver and was more important than taking my breaks and doing the job right. I "knew" the methods, but I didn't really use them and consequently wasn't very good at them and thought they were just a hassle. I wised up eventually, like most drivers do, and I can honestly say that it makes my day a lot easier. It's been a long time since I made any bonus (though the truth is that time studies took care of most of that), but I'm a lot less stressed out and I feel a lot better physically at the end of the day. Most of the guys I talk to in my center feel the same way. The only drivers I hear talking about how difficult the job becomes when they use the methods are the gunners who have this weird idea that doing the job correctly is a way to punish the company whenever they get mad about being given a split. Some guy who normally runs an hour under comes in two hours over (because he got a 10 stop split), and when the boss asks him what happened he says "took his lunch and followed the methods". If you really believe that explanation I've got a bridge to sell you

We don't disagree. I know what you mean. Following the methods does make the job less taxing both mentally and physically. I simply equate working a longer day with the job being harder.

 

[Omega man]

You can laugh all you want but if your management team decides to lock in on you and they certify you on the 340 methods and you don't follow the methods you will be on the street at some point. Don't be smug about this. You may put your job in jeopardy if you take this approach. Is it worth losing your job?

Remember - It isn't SPORH - It is methods. SPORH is a measure that helps to determine your use of the methods. If you are using the methods, you will average a certain SPORH while the supervisor is on car with you over 3 days. That average will help measure your ability to use the methods. If you deviate off of the norm and your SPORH continues to decline for no apparent reason... you will have another OJS and it will become a more intense work with.

You still don't get it. Even if you follow the methods 100 percent all the time your SPORH will change. You are accepting managements feeble attempt to get you to commit to something that their own I.E. dept knows is unfair. You cannot use something that is variable as a gauge. Open your eyes. Management can't lock you into anything. Even our contract will not allow for this.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

The only way preload could load your truck properly is if you had 50 stops loaded in a p12. And each stop was 1 package.

Preload does not have the time or space to do their job in a sufficient manner. You are jamming too many boxes in a small space to possibly load them in sequential order. You brick out a shelf as tight as possible. Then the driver sorts that brick when space opens up to do so. Whoever thinks that eliminating sorting is possible has never been a driver for more than 30 days. This is why so many drivers sort off the clock. Either before start or durning lunch. It saves that driver so much time and hastle and allows him be productive and punch out at a reasonable hour.

Don't forget that each preloader loads several pkg cars, so this has to be multiplied.

I sort after I deliver my air and again before I start my resi's. And I don't do this on break. If I'm doing UPS work, I'm on the clock, period.

I don't agree with this. I think that selfish driver's sort before start time and during lunch or breaks off the clock, because they want to hurry and get done, or have the load just so. This is where notifying the preload comes into play. If they don't fix it, it takes us longer. More work is more money where I'm from. Work is what we get paid for, so why would you work and not get paid?

Absolutely true. That is why sort time should be figured into the allowance.

And remember, they want us to record that we have taken lunch. If we use that time to sort, well, it still shows that we have taken lunch. And they can still deny that sort time is necessary.

I refused to work on my own time.

Amen Brotha!!!

We don't disagree. I know what you mean. Following the methods does make the job less taxing both mentally and physically. I simply equate working a longer day with the job being harder.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[soberups]

There is no way I.E. plans for this time in the workday, either. I do not buy it for one second if anyone says otherwise.

IE does plan for this time....their "plan" is designed to make you do the needed sorting during your lunch and breaks. Which, apparently, is exactly what you did.

 

[UPS Lifer]

You still don't get it. Even if you follow the methods 100 percent all the time your SPORH will change. You are accepting managements feeble attempt to get you to commit to something that their own I.E. dept knows is unfair. You cannot use something that is variable as a gauge. Open your eyes. Management can't lock you into anything. Even our contract will not allow for this.

(Talk about "opening your eyes" .... You must read with your eyes closed! LOL!)

No Omega Man - you don't get it. Apparently you didn't read my last post. I am agreeing with you. SPORH is only a bellwether, a measure (an indicator or predictor) to indicate if you are following the methods.

If you lose your job it will be for failure to follow the methods not SPORH.

How could you not see that in my last post????? I specifically say it is methods not SPORH. Please go back and read it before you blast me.

 

[UPS Lifer]

IE does plan for this time....their "plan" is designed to make you do the needed sorting during your lunch and breaks. Which, apparently, is exactly what you did.

Again - maybe up in Oregon - but now that Oregon is again part of the Pacific Region I highly doubt any of your claims. Most of what you say is some sort of conspiracy theory! It is what you want to believe or want others to believe. They find it easy to get on the band wagon because they are just as upset as you are.

Back up your claims with a smoking gun. Show me a memo or an email from your department head of IE that states your claims. I you can't do that .... take it down a couple of notches! LOL!

Besides all the other jobs I had, I managed operations and departments from 1986 to 2007. I worked as a manager in the IE department and NEVER did I EVER hear or see my boss push your conspiracies down the ranks. Believe me when I say that I am not a fan of IE. When allowances are tightened it makes everyone work harder. NOBODY wants to work any harder than they have to....nobody!

Hear is what I heard and saw in 36 years.
In 1982 - A district manager condoned supervisors working until a union official blasted him and then he denied it.... I lost all respect for that guy.

In the 80s and early 90's
I saw a handful of center management teams play with the timecards and change stats - some lost their jobs and some didn't because they stopped after realizing they would lose their job.

I saw supervisors and managers tell drivers (not threaten) to put down lunches that were not taken. Most got away with that. It usually involved drivers working under 4 hours or over 9.5 or over 12 hours. The over 12 was illegal besides being unethical.

I saw LP (now Security) investigate management as much as any non-management. Management that cheated lost their jobs and when an allegation came up it was investigated and nobody looked the other way.

What irritates me about your comments is that you make allegations that you can't back up with hard evidence.

Back it up with hard evidence and you won't hear a peep out of me.

I guess what I am saying is that with my position and connections from the corporate level through the region and into the district, I could not have been shielded from corporate, region or district culture that is indicative to your conspiracy theories.

Send me an email with hard evidence and I will recant this post.

 

[trickpony1]

If you lose your job it will be for failure to follow the methods not SPORH.

Then help me understand what happens during annual OJS rides with feeder drivers.
Once a year feeder drivers get an OJS. We have all been told there is no "perfect" driver and they (management) must find and write up at least eight things.
If what you say is true then all feeder drivers could be fired point blank unless, of course, management happens to be in a good mood or the driver is well liked.
"Well liked", apparently, is defined as "running good numbers".
I generally respect your opinions and posts, UPS Lifer, so I anxiously await your opinion.
Thanks.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Then help me understand what happens during annual OJS rides with feeder drivers.
Once a year feeder drivers get an OJS. We have all been told there is no "perfect" driver and they (management) must find and write up at least eight things.
If what you say is true then all feeder drivers could be fired point blank unless, of course, management happens to be in a good mood or the driver is well liked.
"Well liked", apparently, is defined as "running good numbers".
I generally respect your opinions and posts, UPS Lifer, so I anxiously await your opinion.
Thanks.

It is always been my opinion that the most important thing in feeder is safety. Unless a driver is way out of the norm on performance issues, I highly doubt you will see a driver released over performance.

For example, if it take a normal driver 20 minutes to hook up and perform all the checks to leave the yard and another driver takes 40 minutes or more to do the exact same job (and he/she is not a rookie).... then there is an issue that would more than likely need to be addressed.

I can't comment on what a supervisor tells you but I would say that there is no "perfect employee" period. I am positive that most any employee including myself and other management could be observed and discrepancies found in our routine or "methods". A good supervisor will coach you on what you could do differently to make the job easier or more efficient. It has been my experience that supervisors (at least the ones who worked for me) are not out to get their employees.

I think a lot of people forget that releasing employees and starting from scratch is more costly and more disruptive to an operation and our customers than working with the employees.

Releasing an employee was the last thing on my list - I had to have no other recourse. No employee who is worth their salt should ever have to worry about being released. I am sure that includes you!!

The only thing you could be fired for "point blank" is a cardinal sin. (You still get a hearing!). For a feeder driver, it would probably mean that an act of "gross negligence" more than likely dealing with some safety issue.

 

[pretzel_man]

IE does plan for this time....their "plan" is designed to make you do the needed sorting during your lunch and breaks. Which, apparently, is exactly what you did.

Sober,

I have explained before how the planning system works. I'll do it again.....

It's true that IE does not account for sorting of the car for work measurement. Its not true that the plan is designed to purposely not account for that time.

When the plan is created, the planned time (which does not include sorting) has overallowed added on top of it (which does include sorting). The plan is based on PAID day, not PLANNED day.

Go ask your supervisor to show you the screens in the dispatch planning system. You will see a target paid day, and ov/under.

Go look at it and do the math. You will see that the IE created method puts the time back in for planning purposes.

I don't mind playing "straight man" to for your comedy.

P-Man

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Sober,

I have explained before how the planning system works. I'll do it again.....

It's true that IE does not account for sorting of the car for work measurement. Its not true that the plan is designed to purposely not account for that time.

When the plan is created, the planned time (which does not include sorting) has overallowed added on top of it (which does include sorting). The plan is based on PAID day, not PLANNED day.

Go ask your supervisor to show you the screens in the dispatch planning system. You will see a target paid day, and ov/under.

Go look at it and do the math. You will see that the IE created method puts the time back in for planning purposes.

I don't mind playing "straight man" to for your comedy.

P-Man

Hey Abbott!!!

 

[cachsux]

Then help me understand what happens during annual OJS rides with feeder drivers.
Once a year feeder drivers get an OJS. We have all been told there is no "perfect" driver and they (management) must find and write up at least eight things.
If what you say is true then all feeder drivers could be fired point blank unless, of course, management happens to be in a good mood or the driver is well liked.
"Well liked", apparently, is defined as "running good numbers".
I generally respect your opinions and posts, UPS Lifer, so I anxiously await your opinion.
Thanks.

You`re talking about two different rides. The first,an annual certification, is the ride where one demonstrates their driving ability and knowledge of the safe driving habits. And yes supes must find 8 to 10 things wrong on every driver,straight from the supes mouth. All are minor things.

The second is a performance ride and to get one someone is usually going above and beyond the acceptable levels of being slow,etc. No one in my years of feeder have been let go during or after a ride rather they`ll catch someone by observing them from afar.

 

[cachsux]

Releasing an employee was the last thing on my list - I had to have no other recourse. No employee who is worth their salt should ever have to worry about being released. I am sure that includes you!!

The only thing you could be fired for "point blank" is a cardinal sin. (You still get a hearing!). For a feeder driver, it would probably mean that an act of "gross negligence" more than likely dealing with some safety issue.

If that was your way of operating then you are a far better manager than some of the ones I have had. Fortunately they have been flushed to other building,hopefully permanently. As far as your point on firing a feeder driver said moved mgr makes it his hobby to fire drivers for the most irrational things,to the extent of his having been focused on by Atlanta`s radar. I`m sure you would have not operated in this fashion but there are some out there.

 

[soberups]

Sober,
When the plan is created, the planned time (which does not include sorting) has overallowed added on top of it (which does include sorting). The plan is based on PAID day, not PLANNED day.

Go ask your supervisor to show you the screens in the dispatch planning system. You will see a target paid day, and ov/under.

P-Man

Under no circumstances is our management allowed to dispatch an "underload".

They must get the "planned" day up over 8 hrs on paper, even if it means dispatching a 10 hr day in the "real" world.

The reality is irrelevant. The WOR is all that matters.

If you want to maximize the number of stops per car while keeping the pressure on for increased production, the solution is simple; rig the allowance to not factor in necessary work such as sorting, then blame and harass the driver for not "following the methods" when he is unable to live up to the impossible expectations you have placed upon him.

In order to stop the harassment and get the work done in a reasonable time, many drivers will just cave in an do this necessary work off of the clock....which is what the system was designed to accomplish in the first place.

You claim that the system for measuring time was intended to be fair and realistic...yet according to UPS policy, once a time study has been done the results are chiseled in stone and they will never be corrected, no matter how far divorced from reality those results are. By definition, such a system is not designed to be fair or realistic. It is designed to maximize productivity, by any means necessary.