About Those Planes

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by vantexan, May 13, 2010.

  1. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Concerning FedEx having alot of money in the bank. Must be true since they are buying alot of new jets. If a union is voted in, and negotiations begin, what happens if it goes to arbitration with a government mediator? Isn't the mediator bound by law to settle matters based on evidence presented? They just can't give the union what it wants, it has to be based on the company's ability to meet those demands, with enough profit left over for the company to meet it's corporate responsibility to shareholders as well as have enough profit left over for capital expenditures, etc. If the union says the company should have billions in the bank, most likely the NMB(or whatever body governs arbitration)will have forensic accountants verify the company's balance sheet. Which begs the question, why was Fred Smith threatening to cancel a huge order and then suddenly buying a large number of jets? If there are pre-existing contracts tying up FedEx funds, and annual profit isn't enough to cover union demands, the NMB will have no choice but to rule that the union must accept much less. FedEx has the money to pay very sharp consultants to advise them how to win this thing. Pure speculation on my part, but most likely they are doing everything possible right now behind the scenes to mitigate the union's impact.
     
  2. Cactus

    Cactus Just telling it like it is

    If they have money for that along with all the other extravegant spending they do on huge upper management salaries, Nascar racing, lobbyist etc. then apparenly they have the money to pay us what we are worth.

    I rest my case.
     
  3. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Smith had a clause written into his 777 order allowing him to cancel it if the RLA exemption for FedEx was lost. Perhaps FedEx will just go ahead and order the planes and plead poverty. Who knows? I guarantee that Fred will try every trick in the book to avoid paying us an additional cent per hour. As others have pointed-out, FedEx would have to marginally raise it's rates if we were to go union. That doesn't mean the company will go under. Far from it. The new 777's and the 190 used 757's indicate a long-term strategy of growth, not corporate death.

    One of the huge reasons FedEx isn't as profitable as it could be is a bloated Memphis bureaucracy full of highly-paid middle managers who haven't a clue what goes-on in the field. Ever talk to one of them? Another is handsomely compensated top executives. Another is our very large fleet of corporate jets, which are used to ply Fred's Congressional "friends". There's much more, and all of it indicates a very healthy company that could easily afford to go union.

    When the pilot's went union, poverty-stricken Fred was saying the same thing about no longer being able to be competitive. Geez, he's had a built-in competitive advantage since 1971, which points to incompetent management, not labor, as an impingement on profitability.

    Better brush-up on your Republican anti-union rhetoric and talking points.
     
  4. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Sorry, not as intelligent as you, came up with this on my own. Are you saying that FedEx has everything it has ever netted in the bank? What about the hubs it has built, here and overseas? Switching us over to Sprinters nationwide? Buying out company after company over the years? Investing in new technology like trackers, supertrackers, and power pads? Computer upgrades? This list could get pretty long. Not to mention aircraft it has purchased in the past, let alone the new planes, which by the way are supposed to make the system much more cost effective. Of course they have money in the bank, but I was just pointing out that while you, and others, are saying that they can easily pay much more for pay and benefits, it appears they are in the process of making sure that doesn't happen. I find no joy in that, it'll most likely mean continued lousy pay. Slam me all you want, I sincerely hope you get everything you want. But I'll believe it when I see it.
     
  5. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    I don't like the money they spend on that stuff either. They say the sports spending increases revenue but it looks like boys playing with toys to me. And every time I hear about lobbying I know much of it is to keep us under their control, avoid paying us more. But that stuff is a drop in the bucket compared to what they already spend on payroll. Payroll is their single biggest expenditure, followed by fuel I believe, possibly benefits. The kind of increases you are wanting will cost them billions extra annually. If they can do it, great. But if it kills their profit and tanks their stock they will do whatever possible to avoid that happening. That's all I'm saying. I'm being attacked because some may vote no if they are told anything except the union will get them what they want. I hope it does, and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not going to lie to you. People should make informed decisions, let the chips fall where they may.
     
  6. FedEx courier

    FedEx courier New Member

    Sounds like he's being good cop today, a lot of sympathy for the workers with subtle bad cop undertones.
     
  7. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Is that you Corey? Miss you over at Fedexaminer! No, I'm trying to use a little logic, but I guess it's wasted on you. As long as you are here, please explain to me how FedEx will pay UPS comparable pay and benefits. I've stated my opinion, what's your's? And saying something like "they've got tons of money!" doesn't count. I've given honest opinions of what I believe to be possible. I'm all for better pay and benefits, just not for driving FedEx into the ground to get them. Do you have anything besides personal, snide remarks? Certainly you are more intelligent than me so let's hear it! Well?
     
  8. FedEx courier

    FedEx courier New Member

    My name isn't Corey? Don't know what you mean buddy. I know like everyone else that they would have to even out the pay if the employees had a shot at bargaining rights. I don't know what you want to count? They have money that isn't allocated fairly. If you don't see that now I don't know what else to tell you. You act like the company is tanking or something?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/business/19fedex.html
    If you don't like the idea of it then don't vote for it if it comes up.
     
  9. Just Numbers

    Just Numbers Retired

    I'm starting to wonder about the accuracy of your posts as....to my recollection Federal Express started in 1973...not 1971! If I wrong please correct me.:happy2:
     
  10. Cactus

    Cactus Just telling it like it is

    Federal Express started in concept in 1971.

    It wasn't until the spring of 1973 that the first packages got moving.
     
  11. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    FedEx was started in 1971. I'm guessing that 1973 was when they actually got planes in the air and trucks delivering pkgs. You'll see both dates depending on the source you use.
     
  12. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    I'm just saying that they'll protect the stock price at all costs. If getting UPS comparable pay and benefits adds a billion or more to their costs, eats up their profit, dries up the dividends, tanks the stock price, they will do whatever they can to stop it. What else would they do but that? And you guys know how lean they run things. Do you honestly believe there's a huge amount of waste, enough to reallocate funds to pay what you want? And how would you know other than your own opinion?

    Let's look at some numbers. I've seen stated here that the number of employees who would be affected by the union would be around 50,000. If so, let's say that the top-pay is raised to $30hr. And just for this example let's say the average employee who's got at least three years in see's his pay go up $10hr. On 40 hrs a week that's a $400 a week raise times 50,000 employees equals $20 million a week times 52 equals over a billion a year. This doesn't count overtime, or matching funds on Social Security. And we haven't even begun to talk about improved benefits. So really we are talking about nearly, if not more than $2 billion. The company's revenue and profit are improving with the economy, but not that much. And you are telling me that a company that prides itself on impressing Wall Street with it's business acumen is actually so wasteful and poorly managed that it could still squeeze out a couple of billion with a little effort. Now if your demands added up to a half billion a year, and left them something, and even though they still wouldn't like it, it's realistic considering their annual net profit. I for one would say FedEx and Wall Street needs to settle for less profit, less dividends, and learn to live with a lower stock price in order to help the employees out. If FedEx wants more profit after taking care of the employees then they need to develop more sources of revenue. But we have to leave them something to work with. They aren't just going to turn over everything to the employees, especially if doing so causes them to run deficits. That will eventually kill this company. Unlike the government they can't just print money to cover things.
     
  13. Cactus

    Cactus Just telling it like it is

    The more you post the more you sound like one of the "Memphis elite."

    Tell Fred nice try but we don't really get all that sentimental over the company's "poverty stricken" status as you so put it.

    There's so much overpay and deadweight at the top of the chain it ain't funny. So let me ask you if it was your company what would you do about that?
     
  14. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member


    How do you know there's "so much overpay and deadweight at the top of the chain?" Seriously, how do you? And trying to look at things rationally somehow makes me a member of management? Come on, you've got a brain, use it! I get upset when people like Quadro say that our mid-range pay is good enough for us. But it bugs me also when others think there's this huge amount of excess money lying around that FedEx could share if they weren't so greedy, etc. They can do better, but your demands aren't realistic. You are just setting yourself up for disappointment.
     
  15. Cactus

    Cactus Just telling it like it is

    Read on.....http://fedxmx.com/news-headline-link

    And by the way tell me what my "unrealistic demands" are?
     
  16. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    If you are pushing for UPS pay and benefits you are unrealistic. That article you linked to is trying to get people incensed so they'll vote for a union. I don't like that they are doing extremely well while pushing us to accept less and less. But add up what they are getting compared to what you want spread across 50,000 or more employees. It's a drop in the bucket compared to what it will cost to pay people that well. Unrealistic demands. And where did I say FedEx is "poverty stricken?"
     
  17. quadro

    quadro New Member

    Whatcha talking 'bout Willis? I never said that mid-range pay is good enough.

    On another note regarding the link that Cactus posted you are right about it being a drop in the bucket. Using round numbers, the money listed in that link is about $70million/year. If they all got zero pay that would give hourly employees approximately between 1 and 2% raise at best. Also, don't you find it interesting that they like to throw out how much FedEx executives make etc, but you never hear about the salaries (sometimes two or three salaries for the same person) and benefits that the union executives make? I'm not justifying the FedEx salaries, simply pointing out that arguments are easier made when pertinent facts are omitted.
     
  18. Cactus

    Cactus Just telling it like it is

    I never once said I was "pushing for UPS pay and benefits."

    I just say we are worth a lot more than what we've been given.

    The way you've been implying things is that poor ol' Fred hasn't got any money. Maybe the managers have led you to believe this.

    The Union can't promise us UPS pay and benefits but like in any negotiations, they'll take a real good look at the profit margins, executive salaries, our current salries and past (chincy) wage increases etc. and go from there.

    And oh, if you're waiting for Fred to give you a real nice wage increase, keep waiting and let me know when it happens. :laughing:
     
  19. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    At this point, union salaries are a moot point because we don't yet have one. Please provide some sources regarding the 2 or 3 salaries for the same person point, OK? We know what our top execs make, so those are facts.
     
  20. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    I'm not implying anything. I'm stating without equivocation that if we are paid UPS pay and benefits the company will either file bankruptcy or restructure to avoid bankruptcy. And every time I say the company can't afford UPS comparable pay and benefits I get told I'm a suck-up, a member of management, etc. I've stated before, many times, that the company can certainly do better, but that's not good enough for you and others. Sorry, not going to change my view and will continue to question yours if you can't show me facts to back it up. A slanted article based on envy won't get it done.