About Those Planes

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
I've stated before, many times, that the company can certainly do better, but that's not good enough for you and others.

How many times has Fed Ex said to couriers on Frontline video about on road performance, "We've (YOU) got to do better?" No matter how good it was it's never good enough for Fred and his buddies!

I'm sure you feel comfortable at midrange pay while having to work harder every month and so be it.

You seem to have access to all of Fed Ex's books and accounting figures so if you would please tell all of us what we're gonna be making once the Teamsters come in to the picture. Either that or ask Fred on the next conference call. We're all dying to know.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I'm not implying anything. I'm stating without equivocation that if we are paid UPS pay and benefits the company will either file bankruptcy or restructure to avoid bankruptcy. And every time I say the company can't afford UPS comparable pay and benefits I get told I'm a suck-up, a member of management, etc. I've stated before, many times, that the company can certainly do better, but that's not good enough for you and others. Sorry, not going to change my view and will continue to question yours if you can't show me facts to back it up. A slanted article based on envy won't get it done.

Geez. Look at about a hundred of my older posts on here. I've never said that anyone expects to match-up dollar for dollar with UPS. What I (and others) have repeatedly said is that our pay is inequitable for what we do, and that our pretend retirement plan is worthless. So is our grievance process. Fix those issues and FedEx is well on it's way to ending any union ideas. But that's not going to happen because FedEx thinks everything is just A-OK the way it is, where they hold all the cards and we have squat. By the way, your grammar and spelling have continuously improved in the last few weeks. Is that due to coaching, or have you just done a chameleon act?
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
At this point, union salaries are a moot point because we don't yet have one. Please provide some sources regarding the 2 or 3 salaries for the same person point, OK? We know what our top execs make, so those are facts.
I don't think they are a moot point. The FedEx salaries are thrown around not to say that there's plenty of money to give to hourly employees (the simple math shows that even eliminating their salaries wouldn't solve the problem) but to paint a picture and sway opinions. It's only fair to know and understand how those who would represent are paid.

http://www.tdu.org/files/CD 245.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20101128111253/http://tdu.org/node/1453
 
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MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I don't think they are a moot point. The FedEx salaries are thrown around not to say that there's plenty of money to give to hourly employees (the simple math shows that even eliminating their salaries wouldn't solve the problem) but to paint a picture and sway opinions. It's only fair to know and understand how those who would represent are paid.

http://www.tdu.org/files/CD 245.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20101128111253/http://tdu.org/node/1453

Looks like the union leaders have the same issue with being overpaid relative to those they "lead". I've never said that union leadership is a panacea, as they have obviously had corruption and pension funding issues in the past. What I've continually said is that we need a union to counter Mr. Smith and his complete ignorance of equitable pay and benefits, especially as pertaining to retirement. I have far fewer issues with Mr. Hoffa than I do with Fred.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
How many times has Fed Ex said to couriers on Frontline video about on road performance, "We've (YOU) got to do better?" No matter how good it was it's never good enough for Fred and his buddies!
This is certainly not unique to FedEx, or any business, for that matter. Show us any business that doesn't strive to continually improve, increase business, etc. I've yet to see a company that says "we sold too much last year, sell less this year" or "our employees were too productive last year, make them waste some time this year".

With or without a union, you will always be asked to do more. In my not so popular opinion, if a union comes in and gets you a 20% raise, you'll be required to work 30% harder.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
This is certainly not unique to FedEx, or any business, for that matter. Show us any business that doesn't strive to continually improve, increase business, etc. I've yet to see a company that says "we sold too much last year, sell less this year" or "our employees were too productive last year, make them waste some time this year".

With or without a union, you will always be asked to do more. In my not so popular opinion, if a union comes in and gets you a 20% raise, you'll be required to work 30% harder.

The problem has always been without a union they're continually wanting us to do more (and drive faster than the posted speed limit to make those preciuos numbers, the truth be told) and without compensating for it with raises, better benefits and an improved grievance process.

And right this scenario is far from unique at Fed Ex.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Geez. Look at about a hundred of my older posts on here. I've never said that anyone expects to match-up dollar for dollar with UPS. What I (and others) have repeatedly said is that our pay is inequitable for what we do, and that our pretend retirement plan is worthless. So is our grievance process. Fix those issues and FedEx is well on it's way to ending any union ideas. But that's not going to happen because FedEx thinks everything is just A-OK the way it is, where they hold all the cards and we have squat. By the way, your grammar and spelling have continuously improved in the last few weeks. Is that due to coaching, or have you just done a chameleon act?

I'm betting I can find quite a few posts if I look where you say that we should be making what UPS drivers are making. "Same job, different trucks" , remember? If you aren't saying that, why are you attacking me for pointing out that they can't pay comparable UPS pay and benefits? How much then would you say is fair? And remember the folks on the highest payscales are already making over $24hr I believe. They'll never vote for a union if they aren't going to get a decent bump up. $25hr won't cut it for people living on the coasts, Alaska, or Hawaii.

Let me introduce myself...Kenneth Wade Kilpatrick, friend.E.C. ID# 56800. FT courier, TYRA station, Tyler, TX, 75701. I live in a 26' travel trailer in a RV park in the 75709 zip. I'm typing away on a very cheap netbook although I hope someday to have an iPad. My I.Q. was measured at 150 in 8th grade, I've been a voracious reader since 2nd grade. Quit college when my dad's business went under, joined the Air Force. But never stopped reading. Back when Trivial Pursuit was popular I played college grads all the time but never lost. Is that intelligent enough for you? Or do you think that as a courier I'm not bright enough to tie my shoes? I'm also 6'2", 285 lbs, get the slow and stupid big guy stereotype all the time too until they start seeing my rt numbers.

No, don't have access to the company's accounting figures. But with a little research on Google you can turn up everything that is published for public consumption.

And I've posted my name several times on Fedexaminer. Truth is that after the way I've been treated by FedEx management I really don't care if they know who I am and what I think of them. and they probably know that I've been careful to keep extensive documentation of everything. But I'm a Christian raised in a family of ministers. I'd never sue unless they threw me out on the street, and back in '94 I believe I could have sued the company over the actions of a manager concerning my severely dislocated shoulder. May have been '95. And as a Christian I'm not going to go along with the bankrupting of FedEx, no matter how they act. Too many people depend on them for employment. So I'd like to see realistic proposals that the company can mull over as they read this.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
You seem a bit conflicted. And letting FedEx know who you are makes your high IQ seem suspect. Your living quarters confirm the plight of FedEx employees, and I'm really wondering what being a Christian has to do with anything except your willingness to suffer as a martyr. Would Jesus have been a big fan of someone like Fred S? I think not.

My tagline (Same Job, Different Trucks) isn't really anything than a commentary that we perform essentially the same tasks as a UPS driver. You can read whatever you like into it. We are severely underpaid relative to both the duties we perform and the company's ability to pay a living wage.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
Let me introduce myself...Kenneth Wade Kilpatrick, friend.E.C. ID# 56800. FT courier, TYRA station, Tyler, TX, 75701. I live in a 26' travel trailer in a RV park in the 75709 zip.

You seem a bit conflicted. And letting FedEx know who you are makes your high IQ seem suspect. Your living quarters confirm the plight of FedEx employees, and I'm really wondering what being a Christian has to do with anything except your willingness to suffer as a martyr. Would Jesus have been a big fan of someone like Fred S? I think not.

Well Van...er Ken good to get acquainted with you but don't you think that's just a little bit too much information?

Really none of my business but if you were truly paid for the work you perform you wouldn't be living in a camping trailer. 'Ya see Fred's strategy is to keep one poor and the Memphis elite keep getting more and more wealthy. See where I'm going with this? I wouldn't lose too much sleep over "bankrupting Fed Ex." And I sure wouldn't mind seeing Fred and his buds doing with less $$$ than before and see how it feels for a change.

Although it is not my nature to judge one's religious beliefs but don't let being a Christian blindside you from doing the right thing for yourself.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
You seem a bit conflicted. And letting FedEx know who you are makes your high IQ seem suspect. Your living quarters confirm the plight of FedEx employees, and I'm really wondering what being a Christian has to do with anything except your willingness to suffer as a martyr. Would Jesus have been a big fan of someone like Fred S? I think not.

My tagline (Same Job, Different Trucks) isn't really anything than a commentary that we perform essentially the same tasks as a UPS driver. You can read whatever you like into it. We are severely underpaid relative to both the duties we perform and the company's ability to pay a living wage.

I've put my name out there before. I agree with your last sentence, but I don't see a union greatly improving things. Hope you are right. I choose to live in the trailer, easier to keep dogs and live in areas with limited housing options. I take it you aren't a Christian? As one I have to give consideration to how my actions will affect others. If getting a union in a bad economy would cause layoffs of thousands with families to support then I would have to vote no. But the economy is improving and those with families could use better pay. Bad enough for singles.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I've put my name out there before. I agree with your last sentence, but I don't see a union greatly improving things. Hope you are right. I choose to live in the trailer, easier to keep dogs and live in areas with limited housing options. I take it you aren't a Christian? As one I have to give consideration to how my actions will affect others. If getting a union in a bad economy would cause layoffs of thousands with families to support then I would have to vote no. But the economy is improving and those with families could use better pay. Bad enough for singles.

I'm agnostic, but I try to live my life according to the Ten Commandments, which make a lot of sense to me. My personal prayer is "Dear Jesus, please protect me from your followers". What Jesus said and did were wonderful, but organized religion has managed to twist his words and intent in a bad way. I'm open to being proven wrong and continue to investigate various religions and philosophies until I find one that makes sense to me and can adequately answer my questions.

Again, what does being a Christian have to do with being a doormat for FedEx? You've said you're a 150% courier and I believe you, so why continue to take the abuse based on religion? I've never seen anything in the Bible that says you have to be underpaid and suffer under a despotic "leader". Just curious, since FedEx knows who you are, don't you have just a bit of concern that they're going to try and eliminate you at the first opportunity to do so? They're quite good at it, and I really don't think you should have been so open about who you are.
 

Broke

Well-Known Member
I'm agnostic, but I try to live my life according to the Ten Commandments, which make a lot of sense to me. My personal prayer is "Dear Jesus, please protect me from your followers". What Jesus said and did were wonderful, but organized religion has managed to twist his words and intent in a bad way. I'm open to being proven wrong and continue to investigate various religions and philosophies until I find one that makes sense to me and can adequately answer my questions.

Again, what does being a Christian have to do with being a doormat for FedEx? You've said you're a 150% courier and I believe you, so why continue to take the abuse based on religion? I've never seen anything in the Bible that says you have to be underpaid and suffer under a despotic "leader". Just curious, since FedEx knows who you are, don't you have just a bit of concern that they're going to try and eliminate you at the first opportunity to do so? They're quite good at it, and I really don't think you should have been so open about who you are.
I don't think he has to worry about Fedex coming after him because he's been apologizing pretty well for them lately.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I'm agnostic, but I try to live my life according to the Ten Commandments, which make a lot of sense to me. My personal prayer is "Dear Jesus, please protect me from your followers". What Jesus said and did were wonderful, but organized religion has managed to twist his words and intent in a bad way. I'm open to being proven wrong and continue to investigate various religions and philosophies until I find one that makes sense to me and can adequately answer my questions.

Again, what does being a Christian have to do with being a doormat for FedEx? You've said you're a 150% courier and I believe you, so why continue to take the abuse based on religion? I've never seen anything in the Bible that says you have to be underpaid and suffer under a despotic "leader". Just curious, since FedEx knows who you are, don't you have just a bit of concern that they're going to try and eliminate you at the first opportunity to do so? They're quite good at it, and I really don't think you should have been so open about who you are.

They've known about me for awhile. And they know my record, what I've done for them and what has been done to me. I know that a senior mgr was demoted and later learned that the ops mgr involved in cheating customers, and me, is no longer with the company. This happened after I posted on FedExaminer what had happened while a domiciled courier in southern New Mexico. Not long after they established an 800 fraud hotline. May have had something to do with what I posted. As a Christian I did everything possible to avoid reporting them, but that senior became the senior mgr over an area that I wanted very much to be in although his office was 70 miles away. When he found out I had gotten the job he pulled it and told the mgr to offer me a part-time position instead. So I posted on Fedexaminer what had happened and figured if the company read the site they could make up their mind what to do. So I believe I've established with them that I'm honest, and have been treated badly by some rogue managers. I'm guessing quite a few couriers have experienced at least one bad mgr in their time. I've had the misfortune of experiencing one after another for more than half of my 11 years since being rehired. I put up with the stress, and physical toll because I wanted that pension. So in a sense I became a doormat. But I've no qualms about telling them their pay is unfair. Told our director that in a station meeting. I've refused the last two awards due to me because, as I told my mgr, it would violate my conscience to take them since the company is so unfair with mid-range pay. Told a mgr in a previous station, who insisted on shaking our hand as she handed out paychecks, that I couldn't shake her hand for that reason. As far as being a 150% courier, I'm 48, overweight, don't perform at that level anymore. But I'm over 100% most of the time, and I volunteer to unload containers. They get more than their money's worth. If they choose to fire me I intend to make such a stink they'll wish they hadn't. I do my job, so any firing would be unjust. I'll be out of their hair in 6 or 7 years if I can help it. And really, what more can they do to me than they've already done? I'm just hoping they'll see their way to paying us better so I can get some savings together. If it takes a union to do that it will be their own fault, not mine or anyone else here who are just saying to a very limited audience what the majority of couriers feel. Anyone who says the majority doesn't feel that way is either a company plant or clueless.

As a Christian I have an obligation to do right by my employer no matter what they do to me, within reason. I also have an obligation to tell them they are wrong if they act improperly. Exploiting others for personal gain is wrong. If they do anything to me for pointing that out they will have to answer to God, although it may not be in this life. That's why I do what I do, and why I ask all parties to be responsible and realistic. They want what they want, you want what you want, somehow a happy median needs to be found.
 
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vantexan

Well-Known Member
I don't think he has to worry about Fedex coming after him because he's been apologizing pretty well for them lately.

No, I've been trying to stick to reality. In the world of put up or shut up, I've put up. What have you done? Seriously, anyone can hide behind a keyboard. As Ricochet1A has said, lead, follow, or get out of the way. I've stuck my neck out. You?
 

Broke

Well-Known Member
No, I've been trying to stick to reality. In the world of put up or shut up, I've put up. What have you done? Seriously, anyone can hide behind a keyboard. As Ricochet1A has said, lead, follow, or get out of the way. I've stuck my neck out. You?
Well, I'm actually on the organizing committee for change at Fedex. I stick my neck out each day when I talk to co-workers about the benefits of having a union. Only a fool would give their true identity on a website where noone really knows who the other person is. Nice try
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm actually on the organizing committee for change at Fedex. I stick my neck out each day when I talk to co-workers about the benefits of having a union. Only a fool would give their true identity on a website where noone really knows who the other person is. Nice try

So when MrFedEx was talking about fear and paranoia....

It's been about 5 years, if I remember right, since I first put my name out on Fedexaminer. Still here.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
So when MrFedEx was talking about fear and paranoia....

It's been about 5 years, if I remember right, since I first put my name out on Fedexaminer. Still here.

OK, so you're a person with a conscience. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one OK, because I can't see the sense in anyone putting-up with the FedEx garbage, Christian or not. If it works for you, why not think of Smith as a Satanic figure, because I really think he has some very evil tendencies. In fact, I think he's 100% pure evil. If providing you with a job makes him Teflon in God's eyes, there's something wrong with the picture.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
OK, so you're a person with a conscience. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one OK, because I can't see the sense in anyone putting-up with the FedEx garbage, Christian or not. If it works for you, why not think of Smith as a Satanic figure, because I really think he has some very evil tendencies. In fact, I think he's 100% pure evil. If providing you with a job makes him Teflon in God's eyes, there's something wrong with the picture.

I believe we all get judged in the end. We are all responsible for our own actions. You keep wanting to say I'm pro company no matter how many times I say that they are wrong and we need better pay. You say that you've never said we should get UPS pay and benefits but still attack me for saying I don't believe they can pay UPS pay and benefits. I'm not following you...do you want UPS pay and benefits or not? If not, how much pay would be fair in your opinion? What kind of benefits should they offer? I posted my proposal on the subject, what's your's? Believe it or not the company could care less what I think because they don't want to give us anything, which somehow get's twisted into I'm another kiss up. Sheesh, can't win!
 

TechGrrl

Space Cadet
I'm not implying anything. I'm stating without equivocation that if we are paid UPS pay and benefits the company will either file bankruptcy or restructure to avoid bankruptcy. And every time I say the company can't afford UPS comparable pay and benefits I get told I'm a suck-up, a member of management, etc. I've stated before, many times, that the company can certainly do better, but that's not good enough for you and others. Sorry, not going to change my view and will continue to question yours if you can't show me facts to back it up. A slanted article based on envy won't get it done.
If UPS can make money and be a cash-flow machine paying Teamster wages, why can't FedEx? Fail to understand this logic, boys and girls. Last time I looked, UPS is making lots of money.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
If UPS can make money and be a cash-flow machine paying Teamster wages, why can't FedEx? Fail to understand this logic, boys and girls. Last time I looked, UPS is making lots of money.

If you'll go through the recent posts about the RLA you'll see my logic. We have a different business model, have higher costs per pkg while having much less volume than they do. That allows UPS to pay very good wages while still turning a good profit. Look at the total revenue taken in by UPS compared to FedEx. If we did everything just like they do then yes, FedEx could pay much more. But we are primarily an overnight service using planes, they aren't. Higher costs, lower volume, smaller profit. Two delivery companies with very different ways of doing things. And for saying this I will now be howled at, most likely, for just pointing out the truth.
 
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