Caught on camera: UPS Driver kicks dog.

[10 point]

And we have dumb asses like you who would start fights like this guy and not see a problem.

And once again genius, I have kids and a happy marriage and still do all the family stuff too. It's called balancing priorities. Maybe you need to eat a little less bbq and a little more time actually understanding things.

Situational awareness should just be basic common sense when you're out. I'm sorry you're lacking in both of those.

Sorry I'm more than just a "package delivery driver".
Sorry that's all you've seemed to accomplish and I'm betting you're probably not real good at that either

Anything else you wanna try to throw out there at me?

I believe these issues and how to professionally resolve them should be discussed with driver groups at least once a quarter.

There's a ZERO tolerance for these actions at UPS whether in the building or outside of it.

Good luck to this driver. It doesn't look promising.

 

[SCV good to go sir.]

Here's the only fact that matters: The guy still has his job.

How do you know?

I found audio of the video:

I know in my initial post I said the driver went overboard, I want to make it clear that was referring towards his reaction to the dog.

As far as his reaction to Mr. PonytailwithmanboobsIthoughtitwasawomanatfirst...

The driver is completely in the right. Ponytail stepped towards him with a raised fist. That's intent. The driver is supposed to stand there and let him hit him? Possibly get knocked out and then be at the mercy of a pissed owner with uncontrolled dogs? Who is to the say the dogs won't start following their owner? When the driver stepped towards Ponytail with the shove, he neutralized the situation. Noticed how things didn't escalate after that? Notice how Ponytail suddenly decided he didn't want to fight someone who wasn't scared of him?

As for, "he should have stepped back"

Before I started driving I was training Muay Thai and I was very serious about it. I feel that it's a misnomer to say that being disciplined in a martial art is going to make you so calm during a fight you'll be completely rational and lucid during the encounter. That's almost as absurd as when I hear people who have never trained in their life tell me what they would do in a fight. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Things still happen very fast in a fight, you just learn not to get overwhelmed by it, not too unlike this job at times. I've had people step at me poised to strike since I've started training and in none of those circumstances did I think, "I'm going to step back and then step forward and throw a jab." That's not how martial arts works. You train over and over and over again until your training becomes your natural instinct. That's why they say, "You don't rise up to a higher level in a fight, you fall back onto your level of training." And every time these tards that want to test me attempt to strike me, I've ALWAYS, without second thought, without delay, have thrown a counter to where their guard was down. It has become instinct. I share this because for all we know, that driver may very well have been reacting on instinct

 

[wayfair]

Almost 20 years princess...and learn to spell. It's Aikido not akiedo.


You're making this way too easy

I really don't care about the practice or your opinion... it doesn't apply to anything that has happened... yo u might wanna start a krav maga class at work, throw in some akido... just to make the drivers jedi's...

 

[realbrown1]

How do any of those points justify pushing someone while wearing Browns? They don't. Regardless of the situation, he needed to be the bigger person and walk away. Instead ego and chest pounding pride took over.

This job is stressful no doubt. But if you can't control yourself in a professional manner when confronted with conflict, you're going to get what you deserve. Unless the other guy pulled a weapon, the driver had every chance to de escalate the situation and just walk away.

Fists are weapons.

People have been beaten to death by fists.

Why don't you think fists are weapons?

 

[10 point]

How do you know?

I found audio of the video:

I know in my initial post I said the driver went overboard, I want to make it clear that was referring towards his reaction to the dog.

As far as his reaction to Mr. PonytailwithmanboobsIthoughtitwasawomanatfirst...

The driver is completely in the right. Ponytail stepped towards him with a raised fist. That's intent. The driver is supposed to stand there and let him hit him? Possibly get knocked out and then be at the mercy of a owner with uncontrolled dogs? Who is to the say the dogs won't start following their owner? When the driver stepped towards Ponytail with the shove, he neutralized the situation. Noticed how things didn't escalate after that? Notice how Ponytail suddenly decided he didn't want to fight someone who wasn't scared of him?

As for, "he should have stepped back"

Before I started driving I was training Muay Thai and I was very serious about it. I feel that it's a misnomer to say that being disciplined in a martial art is going to make you so calm during a fight you'll be completely rational and lucid during the encounter. That's almost as absurd as when I hear people who have never trained in their life tell me what they would do in a fight. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Things still happen very fast in a fight, you just learn not to get overwhelmed by it, not too unlike this job at times. I've had people step at me poised to strike since I've started training and in none of those circumstances did I think, "I'm going to step back and then step forward and throw a jab." That's not how martial arts works. You train over and over and over again until your training becomes your natural instinct. That's why they say, "You don't rise up to a higher level in a fight, you fall back onto your level of training." And every time these tards that want to test me attempt to strike me, I've ALWAYS, without second thought, without delay, have thrown a counter to where their guard was down. It has become instinct. I share this because for all we know, that driver may very well have been reacting on instinct

I was at brown belt when I quit my Korean classes.

I am a lot calmer assessing a bad situation than if I had no training.

I've been thru many sparring matches in the dojo and on the street when I was a younger man.

I disagree with your analogy but will admit that everyone's patience level is different. Mine is prolonged because I am comfortable with my surroundings knowing that I can walk or run away and save my job. Loss of pride doesn't equal losing my job.
What if the driver was attacked and he killed the guy with a lunge punch?
Excessive force would be the topic at his last hearing.
If you can escape the situation without a physical altercation you've won. Not because you could kick the guy's rear but because you could have but chose not to.

 

[soberups]

Are you actually justifying our guy's behavior?

He deserves to be immediately terminated.

Are you actually going to make a permanent and profoundly life-altering decision about another driver's career based upon nothing more than 60 seconds of grainy video footage of a shoving match between two adult men?

What he deserves....is a fair hearing through the grievance process and a chance to explain his side of the story.

 

[soberups]

Kicking the dog is not the issue. Neither is the customer shove. The issue is it got caught on camera and went viral. No matter what, the folks in Atlanta will demand the drivers head on a plate for making UPS look bad. If it hadn't become a national story, the driver would probably just lose his route.

The folks in Atlanta can go pound sand. Its up to the grievance procedure to resolve the issue, not them.

 

[soberups]

And as someone who's studied Aikido and other Japanese martial arts for 20 years, this was just handled poorly from a conflict resolution standpoint. The body language suggests aggression and escalation on the drivers part. If someone is coming to hit you, stepping back and not projecting makes it less likely the aggressive one will engage.

 

[soberups]

And as someone who's studied Aikido and other Japanese martial arts for 20 years, this was just handled poorly from a conflict resolution standpoint. The body language suggests aggression and escalation on the drivers part. If someone is coming to hit you, stepping back and not projecting makes it less likely the aggressive one will engage.

If someone is coming to hit me, I'm going to step forward not back. I have always felt that the aggressive one is less likely to engage if he has been knocked flat on his ass. You can yell at me and call me names and holler all you want and I will calmly walk away, but if you posture up on me and get into my personal space in a threatening, aggressive manner I am going to eject you from my space. Its called self defense and sometimes that means doing unto others before they do unto you.

 

[SCV good to go sir.]

I was at brown belt when I quit my Korean classes.

I am a lot calmer assessing a bad situation than if I had no training.

I've been thru many sparring matches in the dojo and on the street when I was a younger man.

I disagree with your analogy but will admit that everyone's patience level is different. Mine is prolonged because I am comfortable with my surroundings knowing that I can walk or run away and save my job. Loss of pride doesn't equal losing my job.
What if the driver was attacked and he killed the guy with a lunge punch?
Excessive force would be the topic at his last hearing.
If you can escape the situation without a physical altercation you've won. Not because you could kick the guy's rear but because you could have but chose not to.

We're on the same page about being calmer in these types of situations than without training. I would also like to clarify that I'm not factoring pride into this and for the record I agree with you've said on that subject in addition to not fighting being the best scenario.

I think your statement about our patience levels being different captures the essence of the topic at hand.

In your hypothetical situation, I'm sure justifiable homicide would also be a topic at his hearing as well. The driver faced two charging dogs (1 of which stopped when he leaned towards it, the other only after he stomped its face) and within seconds had the owner charge at him with a raised arm. The driver could have used his hand cart, his diad, or a box in response, instead he kept it to a shove. I really don't see excessive force sticking to the driver considering the odds he was facing at the time. Furthermore, instead of exhibiting aggression for the entirety of the duration of Ponytail's presence, the driver attempts to remove himself from the situation (albeit in limited fashion) by unloading his package car.

 

[soberups]

So hitting someone when you feel threatened is proper? This isn't a war zone or the octagon.

Our driver didn't hit the customer, he pushed him. Big difference. The customer approached him in an aggressive manner and our driver responded in manner that was proportionate to the perceived threat.

 

[soberups]

Something else to consider...

We have to assume, in this age of smart phones, that our actions are being recorded at all times.

If you are ever videotaped kicking a dog in self defense, it will look a lot better for you if that videotape shows you trying to give the dog a biscuit before resorting to kicking it.

Carrying biscuits makes you look like a dog lover, not the evil abusive dog hater that an angry customer will try to make you out to be if the case goes to court.

"Your Honor, it broke my heart to have to kick that dog, but I had no choice. I tried to give it a biscuit and be friendly, like I do with all the other dogs on my route, but it ignored the biscuit and kept snarling and growling and coming at me like it wanted to bite me."

 

[Buckethead]

You can posture and jump up and down all you want making any aggressive comments you want but if you don't swing(which he didn't) it isn't assault.

Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/community/...-driver-kicks-dog.362516/page-7#ixzz3fTB2yurd

But it can be said he escalated a situation, and its his word against the driver what was said.

 

[10 point]

Our driver didn't hit the customer, he pushed him. Big difference. The customer approached him in an aggressive manner and our driver responded in manner that was proportionate to the perceived threat.

The driver stepped toward the customer initially and several times thereafter.
He's toast.

I wonder what occurred at the building prior to this videoed area. It seems as though this started before he got to the pkg car because he was already angry and there's times when they're (customer too) motioning back toward the building.

Plus the pkg car rear door is already open so this may have been a multiple trip stop and the consignee had been engaging the driver prior to the altercation on video.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Are you actually going to make a permanent and profoundly life-altering decision about another driver's career based upon nothing more than 60 seconds of grainy video footage of a shoving match between two adult men?

What he deserves....is a fair hearing through the grievance process and a chance to explain his side of the story.

Did we watch the same video?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Our driver didn't hit the customer, he pushed him. Big difference. The customer approached him in an aggressive manner and our driver responded in manner that was proportionate to the perceived threat.

Our guy assumed an offensive stance immediately after kicking the dog.

 

[10 point]

Did we watch the same video?

We watched the video but I don't think it showed everything that happened... although it showed enough to get someone fired.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We watched the video but I don't think it showed everything that happened... although it showed enough to get someone fired.

I would still like to know if our guy is (was) the bid driver for that route.

 

[Orion inc.]

How do you know?

I found audio of the video:

I know in my initial post I said the driver went overboard, I want to make it clear that was referring towards his reaction to the dog.

As far as his reaction to Mr. PonytailwithmanboobsIthoughtitwasawomanatfirst...

The driver is completely in the right. Ponytail stepped towards him with a raised fist. That's intent. The driver is supposed to stand there and let him hit him? Possibly get knocked out and then be at the mercy of a owner with uncontrolled dogs? Who is to the say the dogs won't start following their owner? When the driver stepped towards Ponytail with the shove, he neutralized the situation. Noticed how things didn't escalate after that? Notice how Ponytail suddenly decided he didn't want to fight someone who wasn't scared of him?

As for, "he should have stepped back"

Before I started driving I was training Muay Thai and I was very serious about it. I feel that it's a misnomer to say that being disciplined in a martial art is going to make you so calm during a fight you'll be completely rational and lucid during the encounter. That's almost as absurd as when I hear people who have never trained in their life tell me what they would do in a fight. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Things still happen very fast in a fight, you just learn not to get overwhelmed by it, not too unlike this job at times. I've had people step at me poised to strike since I've started training and in none of those circumstances did I think, "I'm going to step back and then step forward and throw a jab." That's not how martial arts works. You train over and over and over again until your training becomes your natural instinct. That's why they say, "You don't rise up to a higher level in a fight, you fall back onto your level of training." And every time these tards that want to test me attempt to strike me, I've ALWAYS, without second thought, without delay, have thrown a counter to where their guard was down. It has become instinct. I share this because for all we know, that driver may very well have been reacting on instinct

When I say stepped back here's what I mean. He should of been more aware of his surroundings that the minute someone comes up to you in an aggressive manner, you give them space as not to enter yours. I will absolutely agree that you fall to your level of training. It becomes muscle memory. If someone is charging or swinging at me, my first instinct would to be get out of the line of attack for that. That's what I meant by stepping back. Things do happen fast so that's why you learn not to put yourself in harms way in the first place. Training in any martial art will make you aware. How you apply that to your life or anything else for that matter is what makes you calmer in stressful situations.

The driver is done. If you look at the ups Facebook page, it's gone viral. Ups won't let this guy back and I'm sure even through the grievance procedures, he won't make it.


It's ultimately sad because it could of been prevented

 

[10 point]

I would still like to know if our guy is (was) the bid driver for that route.

I don't think I want to know.
Either way he's wearing a brown uniform.